Alex Salmond.

[HI HAT]

Just had an email from my MP Kenny MacAskill saying he's leaving the SNP to join the Alba party. Big explanation about the 2nd votes not counting in Scotland favour so he's keeping his parliamentary seat and he's off to join Ecks happy band. I'd be surprised if he wasn't the only one to do this.

[Saltire]

Just now, virginton said:

You said that a second vote would be an 'insurance policy' in the event of fewer constituency seats though. The SNP sweeped all but one of the West seats last time and came within a few hundred votes of another. 

That strikes me as a more than satisfactory outcome in its own right, and the idea that hundreds of thousands of second votes need to be shovelled at the SNP to get a replacement if Jackie Baillie hangs on is not a good one. The reality is that most of those votes simply transferred to the Greens and so delivered a non-Unionist list MSP anyway, albeit a ginger, speccy, annoying one. The ceiling of the both votes SNP mantra is therefore exactly the same for the Yes cause either way and there is no compelling argument to give the SNP a second vote for tactical reasons. There ought to be a credible alternative. 

We need a majority party in government to maximise our chance of independence, that's what the insurance policy is for. Having a "pro-Indy" party at the throat of an SNP government is not going to faciltate that. The D'Hondt system is designed to prevent what we need to happen. A majority SNP government with a group of Green SNPs would be good, not a group of Alba Party MSPs who look like AS plus people wh,o either didn't get on or, were low down on the SNP list so far.

This is the difference between strategy and tactics and they need to be complimentary to win independence.

[Saltire]

5 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Incidentally, did your analysis have the Greens losing their 1 WoS list seat in 2016 to the SNP? Who did the seat come from?

I know, I know... I should go and look for it myself but I'm lazy.

Yes it did, the target is an SNP majority, not a pro-indy coalition in my thinking.

[Saltire]

3 minutes ago, HI HAT said:

Just had an email from my MP Kenny MacAskill saying he's leaving the SNP to join the Alba party. Big explanation about the 2nd votes not counting in Scotland favour so he's keeping his parliamentary seat and he's off to join Ecks happy band. I'd be surprised if he wasn't the only one to do this.

No surpise there, he's always been a loose cannon and I was amazed the SNP actaully thought he was a suitable candidate. 

[Dunning1874]

Corri Wilson (name spelled incorrectly in the Alba press release) also standing for them.

MacAskill going was as predictable as McEleny.

[wirez]

The SNP got 4 MSPs elected the last time from the list. 3 in south Scotland.

Labour and Tories got 45 elected with roughly the same amount of votes combined as the SNP total.

The "both votes SNP" crowd are deluded if they think the result will be any different this time round.

[Trogdor]

4 minutes ago, Saltire said:

Yes it did, the target is an SNP majority, not a pro-indy coalition in my thinking.

That does make sense if the target is an SNP majority. You have to go SNP 1 & 2. However, given the system was designed to prevent a single party having a majority I'm not convinced its the correct route to go. It's the hard way to do it.

5 minutes ago, Saltire said:

 A majority SNP government with a group of Green SNPs would be good, not a group of Alba Party MSPs who look like AS plus people wh,o either didn't get on or, were low down on the SNP list so far.

This is the difference between strategy and tactics and they need to be complimentary to win independence.

Was Eva Comrie not top of the Mid Scotland list for the SNP when she defected to Alba?

[vikingTON]

18 minutes ago, Saltire said:

We need a majority party in government to maximise our chance of independence, that's what the insurance policy is for.

No, you specifically said that the second vote was an insurance policy, in case fewer constituency seats were won. The West of Scotland region will contribute its share towards a majority SNP government regardless. 

The logic of casting both votes SNP in your region is clear. It doesn't apply to a different region where the SNP are likely to wipe the floor with the opposition anyway. Your goalpost-shifting exercise to 'getting a majority' is unconvincing as well. That onus falls on the SNP campaign in your area and others to get that job done by turfing out Tory losers. Not on the voters of Greenock and Dumbarton etc. to shovel literally tens of thousands of wasted votes towards getting a different colour of rosette on the *one marginal MSP* at stake.

Quote

Having a "pro-Indy" party at the throat of an SNP government is not going to faciltate that.

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that will prove to be the case. Are the Greens similarly "at the throat of an SNP government" now?

I'm really not interested as a voter in the sides taken in the SNP internal civil war over the past few years. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, Saltire said:

No surpise there, he's always been a loose cannon and I was amazed the SNP actaully thought he was a suitable candidate. 

Yep, truly amazing that 'a loose cannon' who *checks notes* served as the Justice Secretary in the first SNP government might ever be selected as a candidate for MSP!

I'm no fan of McAskill but we are hurtling through the looking glass with these sort of claims. 

[ayrmad]

13 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

That does make sense if the target is an SNP majority. You have to go SNP 1 & 2. However, given the system was designed to prevent a single party having a majority I'm not convinced its the correct route to go. It's the hard way to do it.

Was Eva Comrie not top of the Mid Scotland list for the SNP when she defected to Alba?

Yes she was, there will be nobody left to push back against the extremities of the trans debate, this will be our last shot at this for a long while. 

[Saltire]

19 minutes ago, wirez said:

The SNP got 4 MSPs elected the last time from the list. 3 in south Scotland.

Labour and Tories got 45 elected with roughly the same amount of votes combined as the SNP total.

The "both votes SNP" crowd are deluded if they think the result will be any different this time round.

That's how the system works, if the SNP 2nd vote goes down they will get fewer list MSPs, so both votes SNP makes complete sense to at least keep the same number of MSPs. 

[Saltire]

18 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

That does make sense if the target is an SNP majority. You have to go SNP 1 & 2. However, given the system was designed to prevent a single party having a majority I'm not convinced its the correct route to go. It's the hard way to do it.

Was Eva Comrie not top of the Mid Scotland list for the SNP when she defected to Alba?

The list on SNP website doesn't show her now so I couldn't check that.

[Saltire]

17 minutes ago, virginton said:

Yep, truly amazing that 'a loose cannon' who *checks notes* served as the Justice Secretary in the first SNP government might ever be selected as a candidate for MSP!

I'm no fan of McAskill but we are hurtling through the looking glass with these sort of claims. 

I was a very active member of the SNP in the 90's and early 2000's that is my opinion of him based on my time in the party. 

[ayrmad]

3 minutes ago, Saltire said:

That's how the system works, if the SNP 2nd vote goes down they will get fewer list MSPs, so both votes SNP makes complete sense to at least keep the same number of MSPs. 

And will be very wasteful if they increase their constituency vote share. 

[Scary Bear]

14 hours ago, BFTD said:

Is the deposit for Holyrood still £500?

Surprised there aren't more joke candidates these days. You'd think most folk could manage to crowdfund that for something daft like the Monster Raving Loonies, Paint Your Penis Green Party, or the Liberal Democrats.

I want this guy to stand again. No, not him, the guy behind him with the colourful rosette. The Landless Peasant Party.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Scary Bear

[strichener]

4 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Aye, you’re a c**t too.

Meanwhile.  Independent deliberately talking pish using unnamed source.  Gutter journalism at its worst.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alex-salmond-alba-party-snp-sturgeon-b1822987.html
 

Is this the civic nationalism you extol on another thread.  If anyone is a c**t it is you - a hypocrital one at that.

Edited March 27, 2021 by strichener

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Just throwing my two pennies here....
I reckon the launch of this (mostly narcissistic and ego-driven) Alba party, may have just forced the SNP to potentially rethink their strategy going in to the election.
Do the SNP persist with the "BothVotes" strategy in the hope that they marginally cut across the majority line, or do they accept that an SNP 1 Green 2 vote would be a better course of action to eliminate as many of those "gifted" pro-union seats as possible? It's a tricky one because the former is certainly a big gamble for the SNP, but the latter is probably the more sensible option but could end up looking a bit daft. 
As much as I think Salmond is a yesterday's man and should disappear altogether, I won't underestimate the number of votes the Alba Party could achieve. What concerns me is I'm not convinced a large number of the Alba Party voters will even follow their new party's strategy in voting SNP 1 Alba 2. 

Or they just don't push SNP-SNP on their campaign - focus hard on the constituencies - and leave individuals to push the second vote for other parties on Social Media.

[paolo2143]

From looking at things it would appear that if you are i say Lothian, West of Scotland, Glasgow & Fife the Greens are best option on List as i think SNP failed to get a  single lsit MSP in any of those areas despite polling at about 42% or more in most of those areas.

The Greens picked up 5 list MSP's in those areas averaging less than 7% of vote. That is why i always vote Green on List in my area.

I think voting SNP both votes works  really well in say North East, Highlands and South of Scotland and possibly Edinburgh.

I wouldn't mind if Alba picks up couple of MSP's in Perth or say Highlands

[wirez]

14 minutes ago, Saltire said:

That's how the system works, if the SNP 2nd vote goes down they will get fewer list MSPs, so both votes SNP makes complete sense to at least keep the same number of MSPs. 

Absolutely agree in areas such as South Scotland.

In most other regions where the SNP will hoover up all the constituency seats it is a complete waste. The numbers do not lie.

[Gordon EF]

28 minutes ago, Saltire said:

That's how the system works, if the SNP 2nd vote goes down they will get fewer list MSPs, so both votes SNP makes complete sense to at least keep the same number of MSPs. 

Only in one or possibly two regions of Scotland. In most areas of the country, your 2nd vote SNP will be maintaining their 0 (yes, ZERO) list MSPs.