Alex Salmond.

[Dawson Park Boy]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Just address the points. 

He hasn’t the intelligence.

[Detournement]

So the committee haven't seen the evidence referring to Lloyd's interference. 

[Bairnardo]

He hasn’t the intelligence.

^^^ Glass house down to the frame now

[paolo2143]

I do think it is worth reminding everyone of the integrity of Mr Davis

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-davis-brexit-committee-european-union-lying-government-a8175906.html

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/lies-damn-lies-david-davis-11652642

[paolo2143]

Make no mistake if Douglas Ross was to become FM of a Pro Union majority on 7 May then Indy will be scuppered and not just for few years.

One of the first things he will do, lauded on by Westminster, is to change the electoral boundaries in Scotland to reduce any future chances of Pro Indy majority happening.
David Davis and Westminster are not just gunning for FM or to bring down SNP, they are constructing a systematic attack to destabilize the Scottish Parliament and Democracy in order to weaken Devolution. This is all part of their power grab.

Yesterday the UK Govt passed a Policing Bill that would have made Communist China applaud, we should al be worried.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

22 minutes ago, paolo2143 said:

Make no mistake if Douglas Ross was to become FM of a Pro Union majority on 7 May then Indy will be scuppered and not just for few years.

One of the first things he will do, lauded on by Westminster, is to change the electoral boundaries in Scotland to reduce any future chances of Pro Indy majority happening.
David Davis and Westminster are not just gunning for FM or to bring down SNP, they are constructing a systematic attack to destabilize the Scottish Parliament and Democracy in order to weaken Devolution. This is all part of their power grab.

Yesterday the UK Govt passed a Policing Bill that would have made Communist China applaud, we should al be worried.

One of the first things he would do is to make sure that the powers of the Scottish parliament are reduced to those of a wee village post office.

The Tories want devolution as we know it destroyed, simply to make sure that any future SNP government can never again agitate for an independence referendum. 

Democracy, eh ?

 

[Angus_Don]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

This is where we currently stand with Sturgeon.

(I) Her husband appears to have perverted the course of justice and the only way the committee managed to avoid that conclusion was by deciding that his messages didn't actually mean what they explicitly said. His appearance at the committee was farcical.

(II) Her Chief of Staff appears to have lied to the committee and very likely illegally interfered in the investigation. Only the most credulous SNP supporters will actually believe that she was completely unaware of this. 

(III) Her government has ignored extremely damning legal advice from external council and the minutes of the meetings related to this have been lost. Who will actually believe they were genuinely lost?

(IV) According to Davis someone in her government withheld documents from the Court of Session. There is likely to be a police investigation into this. 

I believe she can survive this but she is deeply tarnished already and there is clearly more evidence to be exposed. 

 

My knowledge of this case is pretty minimal and I was wondering if you could enlighten me as to why you believe NS's husband and others have attempted to Pervert the Course of Justice which I take it is Salmond's basis for the conspiracy allegations?.  Is the assertion that he (NS’s husband) and others encouraged complainers to come forward and give false testimony because I'm not personally aware of any emails that support that position.  He was certainly keen that they push forward with their complaints, but that in itself is not a crime unless you can point me to some case law that indicates I'm wrong in that regard.  Police Officers will often appeal for individuals to come forward with information regarding crimes of a Sexual Nature after criminal proceedings have commenced.  Best analogy I can give regarding a member of the public doing so would be if a Housebreaking occured, police attend, catch perpetrator, victim discovers other houses in the area have been broken into and encourages his neighbours to report these incidents.  The victim hasn't attempted to pervert the course of justice has he? As I say you may have info re the emails/messages that I’m not party to, so I’m happy to be corrected? 

 

Can't comment on your other points other than to say if point (ii)I is proved and the appears and very likelys become absolutes,  there is no way Sturgeon can survive as she would have clearly misled parliament and not in an insignificant way?

 

Although the SNP come out of this badly whatever the conclusions of the various reports, the running commentary on Twitter by opposition members of the committee and the Justice Secretary tweeting during NS’s evidence brings the whole process into disrepute and is an embarrassment for the SP as a whole.  It should have been an apolitical enquiry chaired by an independent judge with powers to access relevant documentation (if that option is even possible).  

 

Basically F**k the lot of them!. 

 

 

 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You don't know what they have seen because the Lord Advocate has redacted and withheld documents. Also the findings of the committee are by majority so Fraser, Baillie etc may well disagree. 

The documents are not redacted for the committee but for publication.

What we have is Salmond proxy putting forward his opinion not actual evidence

This is going to be another fishing trip - looking for a smoking gun - like the mobile messages and WhatsApp stuff it will not contain the damning evidence they are looking for.

[Detournement]

12 minutes ago, Angus_Don said:

 

My knowledge of this case is pretty minimal and I was wondering if you could enlighten me as to why you believe NS's husband and others have attempted to Pervert the Course of Justice which I take it is Salmond's basis for the conspiracy allegations?.  Is the assertion that he (NS’s husband) and others encouraged complainers to come forward and give false testimony because I'm not personally aware of any emails that support that position.  He was certainly keen that they push forward with their complaints, but that in itself is not a crime unless you can point me to some case law that indicates I'm wrong in that regard.  Police Officers will often appeal for individuals to come forward with information regarding crimes of a Sexual Nature after criminal proceedings have commenced.  Best analogy I can give regarding a member of the public doing so would be if a Housebreaking occured, police attend, catch perpetrator, victim discovers other houses in the area have been broken into and encourages his neighbours to report these incidents.  The victim hasn't attempted to pervert the course of justice has he? As I say you may have info re the emails/messages that I’m not party to, so I’m happy to be corrected? 

 

 

 

 

 

There are messages between Murrell and Riddick where they say that they will get the police to tell them what information they require to prosecute then inform the complainers of it. That is clearly expressing a desire to pervert the course of justice. 

Even if that isn't considered criminal behaviour they have still acted extremely inappropriately by involving themselves in a criminal investigation. They should not have been actively in contact with either the police or the complainers.

Beyond that Murrell as the husband of the First Minister saying he will pressurise the police regarding a criminal investigation that the First Minister is involved with on multiple fronts is completely unacceptable. 

[Detournement]

8 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The documents are not redacted for the committee but for publication.

What we have is Salmond proxy putting forward his opinion not actual evidence.

I posted a tweet which shows they don't have the McKinnon messages so wrong again.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I posted a tweet which shows they don't have the McKinnon messages so wrong again.

That's not evidence though - that's an opinion of a civil servant.

If you think that Evans or anyone will have put anything in writing I think you are genuinely in cloud cuckoo land.

It is still essentially one person's interpretation of events versus another's.

By the way, every message involving members of the SNP has been seen by the committee.

[Anonapersona]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

This is where we currently stand with Sturgeon.

(I) Her husband appears to have perverted the course of justice and the only way the committee managed to avoid that conclusion was by deciding that his messages didn't actually mean what they explicitly said. His appearance at the committee was farcical.

(II) Her Chief of Staff appears to have lied to the committee and very likely illegally interfered in the investigation. Only the most credulous SNP supporters will actually believe that she was completely unaware of this. 

(III) Her government has ignored extremely damning legal advice from external council and the minutes of the meetings related to this have been lost. Who will actually believe they were genuinely lost?

(IV) According to Davis someone in her government withheld documents from the Court of Session. There is likely to be a police investigation into this. 

I believe she can survive this but she is deeply tarnished already and there is clearly more evidence to be exposed. 

You missed out the bit where the moon-dwelling amphibians stole all the explosive evidence.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That's not evidence though - that's an opinion of a civil servant.

If you think that Evans or anyone will have put anything in writing I think you are genuinely in cloud cuckoo land.

It is still essentially one person's interpretation of events versus another's.

By the way, every message involving members of the SNP has been seen by the committee.

 

The committee has went back to the Crown again this morning to ask for the MacKinnon message Davis read out in parliament so it has obviously been withheld. 

 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The committee has went back to the Crown again this morning to ask for the MacKinnon message Davis read out in parliament so it has obviously been withheld. 
 
 

Mackinnon is the civil servant who had prior contact - she's already corrected her evidence once to the enquiry.

The individuals allegedly involved in the messages are not members of the SNP but employees of HM Government - the Civil Service is a reserved matter - if we are playing the responsibility game then the buck stops not at Sturgeon but at the person who has responsibility for the Civil Service - Boris Johnson.

As I keep saying - I don't believe this conspiracy nonsense - this looks like an old-fashioned cover-up of a f**k up by civil servants.

My grandfather, God rest his soul, was pretty high up in the Civil Service - he told me once that they often kept politicians in the dark and only gave information on a need to know basis.

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

What's quite awful about all this is that the likes of Murdo Fraser who are on the committee, have seen the unredacted information and say themselves in that committee that Sturgeon has done nothing wrong.

Yet publicly throwing mud by supporting Davis.

It's pretty clear what's going on here.

They are just peddling and regurgitating the same shite over and over hoping that eventually it will do damage.

Significant that other than Jackie Bailey and the Nazis the other parties have went quiet on it.

[Detournement]

6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Mackinnon is the civil servant who had prior contact - she's already corrected her evidence once to the enquiry.

The individuals allegedly involved in the messages are not members of the SNP but employees of HM Government - the Civil Service is a reserved matter - if we are playing the responsibility game then the buck stops not at Sturgeon but at the person who has responsibility for the Civil Service - Boris Johnson.

 

MacKinnon communicated that Lloyd was inappropriately involved a month before Lloyd told the committee she was aware. That is a big revelation from Davis.

Saying this is down to Boris is beyond straw clutching. Sturgeon extended the contract of Evans despite Evans ignoring legal advice from Whitehall and acting illegally in the investigation. She has also bizarrely publicly stated that she disagrees with the Court of Session verdict despite the damning legal advice she received from their own QC which led the SG to collapse their defence. Her continued employment is solely down to Sturgeon. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

MacKinnon communicated that Lloyd was inappropriately involved a month before Lloyd told the committee she was aware. That is a big revelation from Davis.
Saying this is down to Boris is beyond straw clutching. Sturgeon extended the contract of Evans despite Evans ignoring legal advice from Whitehall and acting illegally in the investigation. She has also bizarrely publicly stated that she disagrees with the Court of Session verdict despite the damning legal advice she received from their own QC which led the SG to collapse their defence. Her continued employment is solely down to Sturgeon. 

The point about Boris was to make the point about how ludicrous it is to blame Sturgeon.

If a civil servant does not communicate to a politician what is going on then it is a bit rich to expect the same politician to be able to hold them accountable.

You clearly think civil servants have told the First Minister everything that has happened - yet the actual evidence of that just does not exist.

If you've followed what I've said about this those who have been attacking Sturgeon have gone after the wrong person.

By focusing on her they may actually be letting off the person who knows the most and may be the main person covering their own backside.

[Angus_Don]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

There are messages between Murrell and Riddick where they say that they will get the police to tell them what information they require to prosecute then inform the complainers of it. That is clearly expressing a desire to pervert the course of justice. 

Even if that isn't considered criminal behaviour they have still acted extremely inappropriately by involving themselves in a criminal investigation. They should not have been actively in contact with either the police or the complainers.

Beyond that Murrell as the husband of the First Minister saying he will pressurise the police regarding a criminal investigation that the First Minister is involved with on multiple fronts is completely unacceptable. 

 

Can only find two messages online and they mention pressurising the Police, events in London, Salmond firefighting being good for complainers and CPS action being a good thing.  Are there more that mention Police providing information required for prosecution and informing the complainers, because if, for example, they show attempts to fabricate or alter evidence then that's clearly criminal.  Completely agree with the inappropriate behaviour by Murrell with regard to the two messages I've read. He should do the decent thing and resign, but NS wasn't involved in the criminal investigation in any way was she? because that would be a real scandal (the Police under the supervision/direction of the Procurator Fiscal/Crown Office investigated the crimes).

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, Angus_Don said:

 

Can only find two messages online and they mention pressurising the Police, events in London, Salmond firefighting being good for complainers and CPS action being a good thing.  Are there more that mention Police providing information required for prosecution and informing the complainers, because if, for example, they show attempts to fabricate or alter evidence then that's clearly criminal.  Completely agree with the inappropriate behaviour by Murrell with regard to the two messages I've read. He should do the decent thing and resign, but NS wasn't involved in the criminal investigation in any way was she? because that would be a real scandal (the Police under the supervision/direction of the Procurator Fiscal/Crown Office investigated the crimes).

She was supposed to be called as a witness for the defence but was excused. She was also defending the civil action by Salmond at the time of Murrell's texts which makes his actions even more inappropriate.

There is a message from Ruddick to Murrell where Ruddick says if Murrell can give her details of the specific allegations the police need to proceed she will get it for them. Those texts haven't been released yet but the Crown admitted they hold them during Craig Murray's hearing. 

[SandyCromarty]

4 hours ago, Detournement said:

This is where we currently stand with Sturgeon.

(I) Her husband appears to have perverted the course of justice and the only way the committee managed to avoid that conclusion was by deciding that his messages didn't actually mean what they explicitly said. His appearance at the committee was farcical.

(II) Her Chief of Staff appears to have lied to the committee and very likely illegally interfered in the investigation. Only the most credulous SNP supporters will actually believe that she was completely unaware of this. 

(III) Her government has ignored extremely damning legal advice from external council and the minutes of the meetings related to this have been lost. Who will actually believe they were genuinely lost?

(IV) According to Davis someone in her government withheld documents from the Court of Session. There is likely to be a police investigation into this. 

I believe she can survive this but she is deeply tarnished already and there is clearly more evidence to be exposed. 

Blah, Blah , Blah, fuckin Blah.

Don't you get sick of pumping out the same old shite week after week?

Get wise, nobody's listening, nothing, absolute zilch is going to happen to the SNP or Nicola..

The Scottish public is tired of it as I keep saying.

But the unionist propaganda machine can't let it go as they think they're onto a good thing.