CarrbridgeSaintee Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, ICTChris said: The truth is that rioting is very hard for the police to deal with. You need overwhelming numbers and force and that is difficult to organise. Rioting and disorder like this is so dangerous because it's so hard to control. If 50 odd people decided right now to go and start smashing up the centre of Edinburgh then they could do a lot of damage before the police would be able to intervene and stop them. You can see this in any of the riots that have happened in recent memory, from those following the murder of George Floyd, to the Harehills riots to what's happened this week. Even look at the violence in Auchinleck a few months back or if you ever see social media videos of people expelling sex offenders from their community. It's difficult for the police to control hundreds of people intent on not doing what they are told. I think the best hope for avoiding any further serious rioting is for it to piss with rain for a few days, in all honesty. ETA - The thing about face coverings is interesting. In the last few years it's very common for people to ride about Edinburgh on scooters or electric bikes wearing balaclavas or masks. It's very anti-social to have your face covered like that and I know that a lot of people find it very intimidating. I'm sure people have always done it but it seems more common post-Covid when masks were mandatory in some situations. As for making it illegal, that is very difficult, although I think police have powers to enforce stop and search in a specific area and could maybe use those to prevent face coverings? You can get the same affect by wearing a hoodie and a baseball cap tbh Out of interest, what happened in Auchinleck? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said: Does that include pro-Palestine protestors? Yes, it would, that’s clear from my post. Are you incapable of reading or understanding? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: For clarity my position, and I fully accept others do not support it, is that people taking part in any ‘protest’ should not be allowed to cover their faces. Not sure why I need to clarify it as it was clear in my original post. There is always a difficult balance between effective ‘policing’ and civil liberties. I’d normally err on the side of the latter but there are exceptions. As to @ICTChris’s post I totally agree that trying to police such actions is very difficult; I don’t envy the police their job. I think your suggestion would rank as more extreme than the JSO triggered insistence that protest is fine as ling as it doesn't affect anyone or anything, which effectively renders protest utterly useless. Protest hasn't really ever been intended to exist within the limits of law and order. Not to say its always violent or unsavoury, but it's always been that protestors have had enough and are willing to step up and take action to force change. Any attempts to water it down with extra laws should be resisted and all protests as they happen should be policed on their merits. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Just now, Bairnardo said: I think your suggestion would rank as more extreme than the JSO triggered insistence that protest is fine as ling as it doesn't affect anyone or anything, which effectively renders protest utterly useless. Protest hasn't really ever been intended to exist within the limits of law and order. Not to say its always violent or unsavoury, but it's always been that protestors have had enough and are willing to step up and take action to force change. Any attempts to water it down with extra laws should be resisted and all protests as they happen should be policed on their merits. What have the existing rioters had enough of I wonder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Yes, it would, that’s clear from my post. Are you incapable of reading or understanding? Just checking you were as much as a moron as you come across. Thanks for the confirmation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: What have the existing rioters had enough of I wonder. That's not really relevant to what I'm saying though is it? You are suggesting that some far right thugs should he the basis of legislation that effectively acts to suppress all forms of protest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Granny Danger - the authoritarian Brexiteerr, who f**ks off to Spain for his twilight years after pulling up the ladder behind him. Are we sure he wasn’t in Southport the other day? Sounds like he’d fit in well with the lads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Just now, Bairnardo said: That's not really relevant to what I'm saying though is it? You are suggesting that some far right thugs should he the basis of legislation that effectively acts to suppress all forms of protest. I started off my original post on this by making just that point. There is always a point where civil liberties and effective policing comes into conflict. In an ideal world we wouldn’t need any of these restrictions but we’re far from that. I agree with your point in another post about a properly resourced police force but again that’s not the reality and it’s not going to be a reality for the foreseeable future. There is speculation that there are going to be a large number of right-wing protests over this weekend. If the police fail to contain them then imo this will encourage more of the same. Overnight increases in police numbers is not possible so other ideas are necessary. Or we can just accept that carnage will ensue. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Im sorry to disturb your dystopian fantasy but there already are these powers and they are not abused. The police would never abuse their powers! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, MazzyStar said: The police would never abuse their powers! Aye cos theres absolutely no oversight and scrutiny of policing in this country…. We live in a country where the police released people in the custody of the immigration enforcement agency and despite having power to have rarely ever used the powers to stop face coverings or dispersal zones etc, but i mean dont let it get in the way of your conspiracy theory. Btw just for the record i can see absolutely no additional power which is required for the policing of protests and as a member of the federation with voting rights will not be backing any new powers and will be happy to tell elected members that sufficient public sector funding is the only obstacle to effective policing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Play Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 7 hours ago, Granny Danger said: This coming weekend will show how prepared or unprepared the police in various parts of the country are to protect communities from violent, hate-driven behaviour. If the police forces fall short of containing this I think it will simply exacerbate the problem. One worry is draconian new laws being introduced that try to deal with the immediate problem but then get used to quell other legitimate protests. That said I’d not be opposed to a law determining that anyone wearing a face covering at any sort of ‘protest’ is in breach of the law. If you’re protesting lawfully then you’ve no need to hide your identity. Otherwise the behaviour we’ve seen the last couple of nights is such that it’s bound to breach existing laws that can be used to punish the offenders appropriately. What if you’re protesting in a perfectly legal way for a perfectly reasonable cause but it is counter to what your family / employer / customers / friends believe in? You may wish to lend your support but not wish to be identified by people other than the police for obvious reasons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Bridge Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 3 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said: Granny Danger - the authoritarian Brexiteerr, who f**ks off to Spain for his twilight years after pulling up the ladder behind him. Are we sure he wasn’t in Southport the other day? Sounds like he’d fit in well with the lads. "Pulling up the ladder" is an excellent metaphor to use against that horrible, selfish, greedy generation. I can't wait to use that one on my parents the next time they spout their myopic pish. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 57 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: sufficient public sector funding is the only obstacle to effective policing. And this is the wood that stops many a gammon from seeing the trees. It's no surprise that it's those on the political right who can't see that years of Tory governance, rather than immigrants, is what's got society to where it is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Anti-immigration protests bringing people together, heartwarming 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venti Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 33 minutes ago, Crawford Bridge said: "Pulling up the ladder" is an excellent metaphor to use against that horrible, selfish, greedy generation. I can't wait to use that one on my parents the next time they spout their myopic pish. I use that phrase when arguing with my Dad. Trouble is boomers are f**king stubborn, arrogant know-it-alls. You may as well reason with a brick wall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 18 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Anti-immigration protests bringing people together, heartwarming Mick O'Keefe likes immigrants well enough when he can go and cower behind them when someone's pulling him up for being a fash arsehole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Bridge Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Bloody Beaker folk! Coming over here, rowing up the Tagus estuary from the Iberian peninsula on improvised rafts. Coming here with their drinking vessels. What's wrong with just cupping up the water in your hands and licking it up like a cat? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 53 minutes ago, Venti said: I use that phrase when arguing with my Dad. Trouble is boomers are f**king stubborn, arrogant know-it-alls. You may as well reason with a brick wall. Yes, 'pulling up a ladder' or 'drawbridge' is hardly some brand new witty construction as the earlier poster seemed to think. I do enjoy though, how some of those contributing to these threads love to proclaim their objections to prejudice, by bracketing a massive group of people together due to a characteristic over which they've no control, in order to castigate them all as having the same glaring faults. Most illuminating. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 The age of some of these kids. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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