NotThePars Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The SNP’s demonstrated its competency for the past 11 years. That it seems to be getting plaudits, once again, for pursuing some level of radical politics is encouraging and good IMO. I find it annoying that people (not saying peppino is saying it) tacitly argue that compromise should be one way in favour of business interests where leftists ought to shut up and eat their cereal while the SNP and the Yes movement woos the centre right into jumping on board. It’s a battle you’ll never win if your goal is social justice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The SNP’s demonstrated its competency for the past 11 years. That it seems to be getting plaudits, once again, for pursuing some level of radical politics is encouraging and good IMO. I find it annoying that people (not saying peppino is saying it) tacitly argue that compromise should be one way in favour of business interests where leftists ought to shut up and eat their cereal while the SNP and the Yes movement woos the centre right into jumping on board. It’s a battle you’ll never win if your goal is social justice. Is the goal independence to deliver social justice and a left-wing country, or using the established left-wing nature of the electorate to deliver independence? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, NotThePars said: The SNP’s demonstrated its competency for the past 11 years. That it seems to be getting plaudits, once again, for pursuing some level of radical politics is encouraging and good IMO. I find it annoying that people (not saying peppino is saying it) tacitly argue that compromise should be one way in favour of business interests where leftists ought to shut up and eat their cereal while the SNP and the Yes movement woos the centre right into jumping on board. It’s a battle you’ll never win if your goal is social justice. Not at all. I think we have different definitions of radical. The income tax changes are not radical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said: Is the goal independence to deliver social justice and a left-wing country, or using the established left-wing nature of the electorate to deliver independence? Interestingly enough Scotland would have been governed by left leaning governments every year since 1950 if was independent. I wonder what it would look like today. Labour want to deny us what they dream of for themselves if they can't have it too. It's not Scotland's fault England almost always votes conservative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Is the goal independence to deliver social justice and a left-wing country, or using the established left-wing nature of the electorate to deliver independence? I’m not convinced by the latter so I would say the former. I also wouldn’t see the point of independence if it was necessary to capitulate to business interests to achieve it. I think we don’t appreciate the fact that a mainstream positive vision of a socially just independent Scotland was at the heart of a movement that had a substantial jump in the polls and nearly got over the line and instead try to give undue prominence to fringe figures such as the RISE lot who really didn’t have that substantial a role in the campaign. That’s just my view on events and I’m willing to admit it’s probably rose-tinted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, NotThePars said: I’m not convinced by the latter so I would say the former. I also wouldn’t see the point of independence if it was necessary to capitulate to business interests to achieve it. I think we don’t appreciate the fact that a mainstream positive vision of a socially just independent Scotland was at the heart of a movement that had a substantial jump in the polls and nearly got over the line and instead try to give undue prominence to fringe figures such as the RISE lot who really didn’t have that substantial a role in the campaign. That’s just my view on events and I’m willing to admit it’s probably rose-tinted. Exactly, rise are radical and are to be ignored. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 Other than the first post war government the Labour Party have never delivered radical change though the Scottish electorate probably thought that is was they have been voting for for the last number of decades. There is no point to Independence if it is going to be a Labour-of-old type government; we’d be as well staying in the UK. Radical politics is easily acceptable if explained correctly. The SNP have been vocally anti nuclear for years but we have been told repeatedly by the Labour establishment that an anti-nuclear Party was unelectable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: Other than the first post war government the Labour Party have never delivered radical change though the Scottish electorate probably thought that is was they have been voting for for the last number of decades. There is no point to Independence if it is going to be a Labour-of-old type government; we’d be as well staying in the UK. Radical politics is easily acceptable if explained correctly. The SNP have been vocally anti nuclear for years but we have been told repeatedly by the Labour establishment that an anti-nuclear Party was unelectable. I totally agree with that just don't see anti nuclear as radical. It's normal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Having weapons that can kill everyone on the planet 100 times over and render it unliveable for 50 thousand years is pretty radical. Most countries don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Other than the first post war government the Labour Party have never delivered radical change though the Scottish electorate probably thought that is was they have been voting for for the last number of decades. There is no point to Independence if it is going to be a Labour-of-old type government; we’d be as well staying in the UK. Radical politics is easily acceptable if explained correctly. The SNP have been vocally anti nuclear for years but we have been told repeatedly by the Labour establishment that an anti-nuclear Party was unelectable. Aye I’m no arguing that we should pursue independence for an old school Labour type government but I do think that protecting and building on the ideology that founded the welfare state should be a central component of any drive for independence. Is that compatible with business interests? I’m sceptical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Are we advocating James Connolly type politics? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 20 hours ago, NotThePars said: Aye I’m no arguing that we should pursue independence for an old school Labour type government but I do think that protecting and building on the ideology that founded the welfare state should be a central component of any drive for independence. Is that compatible with business interests? I’m sceptical. I've got no issue with socially progressive policies. But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I've got no issue with socially progressive policies. But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". Well, about that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Huge Gaffe-ney Ammirite?? Scottish Labour MP Hugh Gaffney apologises for offensive LGBT and Chinese remarks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I've got no issue with socially progressive policies. But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". A citizens party? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Wee Bully said: I've got no issue with socially progressive policies. But unless you are suggesting full communism, you are going to need "business". 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: Well, about that. I neither support nor endorse capitalism but I accept its inevitability for the foreseeable future. I won't criticise others for disagreeing with that but I do believe it is naive to think that it will be replaced anytime soon. What is both desirable and achievable is to utilise the surplus wealth in a more equitable way and to change the power structures to reflect a society where wealth does not equate power. This will not be easy, but I genuily think we would have a better shot of that in an Independent Scotland than we ever will in the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Huge Gaffe-ney Ammirite?? Scottish Labour MP Hugh Gaffney apologises for offensive LGBT and Chinese remarks Lead story on the beeb and reporters camped on his doorstep........sorry he isnt snp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Gaffney is Partridge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 'I could be at home having a chinky.' Who the f**k speaks like that in this day and age, never mind an MP from the left of a supposedly left-wing party. The homophobic poem was bad enough before using racial slurs like that, to young activists as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said: 'I could be at home having a chinky.' Who the f**k speaks like that in this day and age, never mind an MP from the left of a supposedly left-wing party. The homophobic poem was bad enough before using racial slurs like that, to young activists as well. Those comments reflect who he really is. He may apologise and not repeat it but the fact that he used them in the first place is a very clear indication of who and what he is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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