Offensive Behaviour at Football Act

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Aye ok, aside from the snide comment where does OBAF rank in Scotland's hate crime landscape?

I've not crunched the numbers fully but 10% won be too far off

Which is quite a lot for an activity that accounts for about 2% of the population about once a week.

I'm no great fan of the act as written and have plenty of reservations about how it's being applied but to suggest that it should be abandoned because there's other bad stuff happening elsewhere is the kind of whataboutery that sees motorists say "You should be out catching rapists" when busted for speeding

[Crùbag]

'Offensive behaviour at football' is pretty uncommon though has a profile higher than it merits.  I met there are many times more racist incidents in pubs than offensive incidents at football.  How about a separate bill for that? 

 

Anyway, the issues with the OBAF Act is fourfold:

 

1. It's introducing 'special measure' for something that's trivial on Scotland's hate crime landscape.

2. It's punishing the same crime differently according to the occasion.

3. It enshrines people's right not to be offended.

4. It allows people to be charged when no crime has actually been committed.

 

In short, it's a complete horlicks.

 

 

I'd imagine that Scotland's hate crime 'landscape' is pretty close to it's football 'landscape'. If we take Ibrox as an example, I can't think of any other situation where thousands of individuals engage in wilful sectarian abuse of another person/ persons. Take the Alan Stubbs incident as a case.

 

The nature of the beast is that most of these offenders, in most 'big' crowds, only do so because of said crowd. If Rangers fans are so concerned about Alan Stubbs perceived political/ religious leanings, why not sing about it when down at Tescos or at work? If the Goon Brigade have to let off fireworks and smash up seats then why not go to the Royal Concert Hall?

 

Will eventually get round to reading the Act but so far, I'm all for it. Though the cops need more resources to enforce it I reckon.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I'd imagine that Scotland's hate crime 'landscape' is pretty close to it's football 'landscape'. If we take Ibrox as an example, I can't think of any other situation where thousands of individuals engage in wilful sectarian abuse of another person/ persons. Take the Alan Stubbs incident as a case.

The nature of the beast is that most of these offenders, in most 'big' crowds, only do so because of said crowd. If Rangers fans are so concerned about Alan Stubbs perceived political/ religious leanings, why not sing about it when down at Tescos or at work? If the Goon Brigade have to let off fireworks and smash up seats then why not go to the Royal Concert Hall?

Will eventually get round to reading the Act but so far, I'm all for it. Though the cops need more resources to enforce it I reckon.

Seriously you could read it in the time it took to read your post

[The_Kincardine]

I've not crunched the numbers fully but 10% won be too far off

Which is quite a lot for an activity that accounts for about 2% of the population about once a week.

I'm no great fan of the act as written and have plenty of reservations about how it's being applied but to suggest that it should be abandoned because there's other bad stuff happening elsewhere is the kind of whataboutery that sees motorists say "You should be out catching rapists" when busted for speeding

 

I'd wager that OBAF accounts for less than 5% of Scotland's hate crimes and masks where the real problems are.  The amazing thing is that NicolaGov and her cohorts went for a soft target and a compliant one, too and, in so doing met little resistance.  I'm actually shocked at how compliant the posters on here are about it.

 

BTW my issue with the act is very different to that of The Sellick supporters.

 

I'd imagine that Scotland's hate crime 'landscape' is pretty close to it's football 'landscape'. If we take Ibrox as an example,

If my fellow fans break the law then I expect The Bobbies to bring them bang to rights and hell mend then.

 

The rest of your post shows you're just being another P&B sweetie wife.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I'd wager that OBAF accounts for less than 5% of Scotland's hate crimes and masks where the real problems are. The amazing thing is that NicolaGov and her cohorts went for a soft target and a compliant one, too and, in so doing met little resistance. I'm actually shocked at how compliant the posters on here are about it.

.

Less than 5% would be correct, but only just, if you were to compare "charges" under OBAF with "reported incidents" in society in general.

Quite how to produce a like for like comparison is a difficult question which is why I was vague in my estimation earlier but "less than 5%" is clearly wrong

[Mark Connolly]

I'd wager that OBAF accounts for less than 5% of Scotland's hate crimes and masks where the real problems are.  The amazing thing is that NicolaGov and her cohorts went for a soft target and a compliant one, too and, in so doing met little resistance.  I'm actually shocked at how compliant the posters on here are about it.

 

BTW my issue with the act is very different to that of The Sellick supporters.

 

If my fellow fans break the law then I expect The Bobbies to bring them bang to rights and hell mend then.

 

The rest of your post shows you're just being another P&B sweetie wife.

 

I'm not sure that many are "compliant". The majority see the OBAF Act as ridiculous, and pretty much unnecessary, because we are able to behave ourselves at the football.

 

Anything really offensive was already covered under various other laws - the problem was they weren't being enforced. Idiots at the football (and not just OF fans) get away with all sorts because Plod and the stewards will turn a blind eye. For me, all the new laws really do is show up that they weren't doing their jobs in the past.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The number of Racist Incidents that resulted in a "Referral to Procurator Fiscal or SCRA"

(Source http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0048/00489644.pdfPage 31)

2004-05: 2,512

2005-06: 3,181

2006-07: 3,353

2007-08: 3,446

2008-09: 3,652

2009-10: 2,477

2010-11: 2,699

2011-12: 2,846

2012-13: 2,570

2013-14: 3,653

Average: 3,039

 

Charges under the Act

(http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0047/00479042.pdf)

2012-13: 268

2013-14: 203

2014-15: 193

Average: 221

 

 

that's about 7.3% or 1/13

 

Which makes my initial 10% estimate look a little high

 

This is still a fairly crude measure of the scale of "hate crime" within football compared to within "everyday life"

 

But watching football matches is involves about 2% of people in Scotland about once a week and we're comparing them with figures for the whole population 24/7 
 

We could work harder to get a better measure but the general point, That Football matches are associated with more than their fair share of this kind of thing, seems secure and we'd essentially be arguing about by exactly how much more.

[mjw]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-snps-ongoing-war-on-football-supporters-would-shame-a-better-government/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[williemillersmoustache]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-snps-ongoing-war-on-football-supporters-would-shame-a-better-government/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Good article, well written and hard to argue with any of it except how amusing it is that the yoon press are suddenly all concerned about the rights of football fans. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-snps-ongoing-war-on-football-supporters-would-shame-a-better-government/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

He seems to have accomplished the feat of making his dad look like a great journalist.

[Tom Rogic]

Police scotland as usual acting like a shower of arseholes using this ridiculous act as their back up.

Special kudos to the wee fanny shouting "Wind your neck in you and shut it" and the polis woman with the baton drawn for.. ....well what exactly.

This is how young people and young football fans are being harrassed and victimised all over Scotland, these young guys were singled out for the henious of singing loudly with a few swear words in amongst it, their bus driver was ORDERED to leave Kilmarnock at 3.20 giving the guys the choice to miss the game or be stuck in Kilmarnock.

Plenty on here support this horrendous piece of legislation as they think its getting tore into Celtic and Rangers fans when the truth is its doing anything but.

Is this really acceptable the shocking actions of the police here?

[vikingTON]

In what way did the Offensive Behaviour Act play any role in enabling fairly standard policing of wee fannies - who could be done anyway under breach of the peace?

Be extremely specific.

[Suspect Device]

In what way did the Offensive Behaviour Act play any role in enabling fairly standard policing of wee fannies - who could be done anyway under breach of the peace?

Be extremely specific.

It doesn't.

Specifically.

[Dons_1988]

Hard to comment on that without the context of the situation but it has to be said that certainly my perception is that that sort of policing is not helpful or productive in any way.

Although I'm not sure a specific piece of legislation drives that behaviour, I believe it to be more of a product of police mindset.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

In what way did the Offensive Behaviour Act play any role in enabling fairly standard policing of wee fannies - who could be done anyway under breach of the peace?

Be extremely specific.

 

Might have known you'd be backing up bully boy plod.

[vikingTON]

Might have known you'd be backing up bully boy plod.

Deflection and whataboutery.

[Jacksgranda]

 

Which just goes to show what a minefield all this PC shit is.  

 

I'd always assumed that a tink/tinky came from 'tinker', an itinerant mender of pots and pans.  It was only when I looked it up there that I read that its connection with the Irish, Highlanders and Romanies means that some say there's an ethnic edge to the insult.  

 

In Dundee, a tinky was always just an untidy person, and a 'wee tinker' was a cheeky kid.  Nothing ethnic about it.  Do we have to look up our dictionaries and etymologies before screaming abuse now?  Ridiculous. 

 

Not just in Dundee, my mother and aunts would have used "tinky" and "wee tinker", in the way that you have stated - they were born and raised in Angus. A "tink" however, was a different matter, IIRC.

[vikingTON]

Got bullied at school, imo.^^^

^^^ bigot with an ill-deserved sense of injustice found

Still, at least there's an election in a few weeks' time, where all the bigots and the 'authoritarian state!' useful idiots backing them can try to repeal the act. Let's see how that campaign works out for you.

But of course breach of the peace will still be a thing regardless, so the 'injustices' you cry about will still take place regardless of the Offensive Behaviour Act. Gutted for you.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

^^^ bigot with an ill-deserved sense of injustice found

Still, at least there's an election in a few weeks' time, where all the bigots and the 'authoritarian state!' useful idiots backing them can try to repeal the act. Let's see how that campaign works out for you.

But of course breach of the peace will still be a thing regardless, so the 'injustices' you cry about will still take place regardless of the Offensive Behaviour Act. Gutted for you.

 

Deflection and whataboutery.

[williemillersmoustache]

Sorry, what's the issue with the video here?