The Big Black Hole

[strichener]

That figure is flatly contradicted here:

Statistics of Government revenues from UK oil and gas production, produced by HMRC, using ONS statistics, January 2016

In particular, page 7, Table 11.11

ETA: And of course these Treasury figures apply to the entirety of the continental shelf. It is estimated that about 85% of UK oil and gas revenues come from the Scottish part of that shelf (the so-called "geographical share") so actual revenues raised for Scotland will be slightly lower than those stated there.

I notice that the income from BP and Britoil is not included in these figures.

 

Nor is the income from the privitisation.

 

If we hadn't privitised these companies then we would have received substantially more income from our natural resources.  Of course the Tories needed the cash to close down the other traditional labour industries and build up the Yuppy City.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Scotland within the union will never have enough power, influence or options to do anything that will really fix the obvious issues affecting Scotland.

 

Slating the fiscal deficit is a criticism of the unions failures, much as if the results were positive right now it would be a case of saying that the union might actually be good for us.

 

Scotland putting Scotlands interests would without question be the best thing for Scotland.

 

Nah that would be mental.

 

Scotland should trust guys like David Cameron and George Osbourne to put our needs first, what do we know.

[Ad Lib]

and it's been stuck at 9.3 for a while and we're still not ( based only on the only year that matters to you)   pulling our weight.   So how much additional capital should the UK pour into Scotland.   Perhaps (with the pooling a sharing) every single inward investment job should go to Scotland until our fiscal gap matches rUK?   That would be solid unionism.

No, that wouldn't be solid Unionism. The UK owes duties to other parts of the UK which are struggling even more than Scotland, to pay their way. Wales and Northern Ireland being two particularly potent examples.

 

I see the unionists are still trying to claim that the 3rd richest region in the UK can't go it alone. We somehow need to keep subdising London to have any chance of prosperity ?

No one is saying it couldn't go it alone. Just that it would be worse off if it did.

That wee specy virgin who thinks he knows better than everyone shpuld just f**k off to London the noo and take all his Britnat Liberal mates with him.

I am wee and speccy, and I do know better than most people. The rest is drivel.

[Glenn Medeiros]

No, that wouldn't be solid Unionism. The UK owes duties to other parts of the UK which are struggling even more than Scotland, to pay their way. Wales and Northern Ireland being two particularly potent examples.

 

Again, this is why this makes absolutely no logical sense.   You think that areas that have gained from the UK, like  London, would be best leaving the UK.  But others that have been ignored by the UK cheque book should be delighted their area is shite.   You are the busted flush from the busted flush.   You've had plenty chances to articulate on this subject. 

[Glenn Medeiros]

No, that wouldn't be solid Unionism. The UK owes duties to other parts of the UK which are struggling even more than Scotland, to pay their way. Wales and Northern Ireland being two particularly potent examples.

 

Cool, and is this unionism working ?   How's this struggle working out for Welsh and NI unionists ?   The union dividend creating wealth and jobs diverted from London ? 

[Ad Lib]

Cool, and is this unionism working ?   How's this struggle working out for Welsh and NI unionists ?   The union dividend creating wealth and jobs diverted from London ?

They're doing a lot better than if they'd gone it alone.

[Ad Lib]

Again, this is why this makes absolutely no logical sense.   You think that areas that have gained from the UK, like  London, would be best leaving the UK.  But others that have been ignored by the UK cheque book should be delighted their area is shite.   You are the busted flush from the busted flush.   You've had plenty chances to articulate on this subject.

The whole point of the Union is that people who do well out of it are happy to help others that are inevitably and unavoidably shite.

London would do better independent but chooses not to because it recognises a duty of solidarity to shiteholes like Wales and Northern Ireland. Wales and Northern Ireland do well out of the Union because solidarity is shown to them, making it okay to be shite rather than shite to be shite.

[Peppino Impastato]

The whole point of the Union is that people who do well out of it are happy to help others that are inevitably and unavoidably shite.London would do better independent but chooses not to because it recognises a duty of solidarity to shiteholes like Wales and Northern Ireland. Wales and Northern Ireland do well out of the Union because solidarity is shown to them, making it okay to be shite rather than shite to be shite.

My god you really are a vile disgusting person, and inherently a liar and a troll. As you say the richer parts of the Union subsidise the poorer ones, as darling himself said during ref debate, such as Scotland subsidising poor areas of England, darlings words not mine. Today you attempted to argue Scotland hasn't even paid its way let alone been paying f others too.

You know this to be untrue you're not stupid which is what makes you a troll and a liar. You just think you can argue any position well and persistently enough that others will give up.

And you obviously are a deeply unhappy person with extremely low emotional maturity, so you derive pleasure from making other people as unhappy as you. Which is a disgusting quality btw, I've been treated for clinical depression for 14 years now I know what it's like but negative energy only creates negative energy, you'd be much happier if you learned that.

so that's why you choose pre determined contrary positions then argue them, if most people on here were anti independence you'd be a pro independence troll arguing the opposite positions to the ones you are now.

[Peppino Impastato]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/leading-think-tank-an-independent-scotland-would-been-148-billion-better-off/

I can't post links in the same post for some reason here is one of any number showing Scotland has been a net contributor

[Ad Lib]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/leading-think-tank-an-independent-scotland-would-been-148-billion-better-off/ I can't post links in the same post for some reason here is one of any number showing Scotland has been a net contributor

Fair play, you've managed to cite a triumvirate of non-credible sources.

1. My old University friend and, deity bless him, total loonball and National columnist and CommonSpace Russia Today appeaser Michael Gray

2. Business for Scotland, that well known SNP front from the referendum campaign run by disgraced property mogul Michelle Thomson from the sidelines

3. The Jimmy Reid Foundation, at the time of this post headed by Robin MacAlpine, the least credible political commentator on this planet.

[Peppino Impastato]

Fair play, you've managed to cite a triumvirate of non-credible sources.1. My old University friend and, deity bless him, total loonball and National columnist and CommonSpace Russia Today appeaser Michael Gray2. Business for Scotland, that well known SNP front from the referendum campaign run by disgraced property mogul Michelle Thomson from the sidelines3. The Jimmy Reid Foundation, at the time of

Interesting how you dismiss conclusions you don't want to accept as you allege bias yet hold up figures from the uk government specifically designed to weaken the case for devolution then independence as infallible and won't hear a word against them even though they have been seriously flawed in the very recent past and the body compiling them has more than a vested interest in discrediting the case for independence.

One might think you're a lying troll. It doesn't matter what information you're given you'll deny and dismiss it as is your want. You're literally the first person ever to have attempted to argue Scotland hasn't more than paid it's way in the UK, as I said even darling said that whilst trying to argue against independence.

So you'll forgive me if I treat your mewlings with the contempt they deserve.

[Peppino Impastato]

https://fullfact.org/economy/do-scots-contribute-more-taxes-rest-uk-13582/

not that it will matter as ad fib will dismiss anything that contradicts him out of hand but for others here is another link

[MarkoRaj]

My god you really are a vile disgusting person, and inherently a liar and a troll. As you say the richer parts of the Union subsidise the poorer ones, as darling himself said during ref debate, such as Scotland subsidising poor areas of England, darlings words not mine. Today you attempted to argue Scotland hasn't even paid its way let alone been paying f others too.You know this to be untrue you're not stupid which is what makes you a troll and a liar. You just think you can argue any position well and persistently enough that others will give up.And you obviously are a deeply unhappy person with extremely low emotional maturity, so you derive pleasure from making other people as unhappy as you. Which is a disgusting quality btw, I've been treated for clinical depression for 14 years now I know what it's like but negative energy only creates negative energy, you'd be much happier if you learned that.so that's why you choose pre determined contrary positions then argue them, if most people on here were anti independence you'd be a pro independence troll arguing the opposite positions to the ones you are now.

I think at one point Ad Lib has said at one point he was struggling with depression to be fair. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for him

[strichener]

Fair play, you've managed to cite a triumvirate of non-credible sources.

1. My old University friend and, deity bless him, total loonball and National columnist and CommonSpace Russia Today appeaser Michael Gray

2. Business for Scotland, that well known SNP front from the referendum campaign run by disgraced property mogul Michelle Thomson from the sidelines

3. The Jimmy Reid Foundation, at the time of this post headed by Robin MacAlpine, the least credible political commentator on this planet.

Can you expand on this?  I didn't think she had been found to have done anything wrong as yet.

[Wee Willie]

...That wee specy virgin who thinks he knows better than everyone should just f**k off to London the noo and take all his Britnat Liberal mates with him.

That's whit I advised him tae dae.

Whit happens when he meets the lovable cockney wi' their quaint speech and pearly attire?

Oh wait Ad Lib had a proper educashun and can speak proper english.

With his social standing he'll no meet ony peasants except tae sneer at them.

But he'll kiss the arses o' minor royals and lords wot speak proper.

'We're bought and sold....' springs tae mind.

 

"The small bespectacled person who firstly considers himself to be of superior intellect to most of the intellectually inferior posters on this forum and secondly hopes to save his sexual purity until his marriage is sanctified by his chosen church should choose to move to the capital city of our glorious nation with all his similarly enlightened friends."

 

Please use proper, respectful & non-vernacular speech to describe our own failed prospective MP. It's all he deserves.

I concur.

It's ALL he deserves.

 

I am wee and speccy, and I do know better than most people. The rest is drivel.

Thank f**k that's the only things we hae in common.

 

...not that it will matter as ad fib will dismiss anything that contradicts him out of hand...

So the nickname Chemical Ali is pertinent and appropriate for him?

[Ad Lib]

Can you expand on this? I didn't think she had been found to have done anything wrong as yet.

Correction. No criminality has yet been proved.

[LongTimeLurker]

The UK does not have a £1.6 trillion deficit. That figure more closely corresponds to its total level of government indebtedness, which is completely different. On independence Scotland would take a broadly per-capita share of that, which at the moment would be about £125 billion.

According to GERS the UK equivalent figure to the £14.9 billion Scottish net fiscal balance is £89.1 billion. For Scotland, that net fiscal deficit is 9.7% of GDP and for the UK it is 4.9%...

 

The only way oil and gas prices are going longer term are upwards, because it is a non-renewable resource, so it's not sensible to base arguments on energy prices that are too optimistic (as the Yes campaign did) or at the opposite extreme as is happening at the moment. What should jump out of the page from that is that the UK after over five years of supposed austerity budgets is still actually adding further to its debt load rather than paying any of it back before the real fun and games start if/when interest rates rise again and/or all the pension and healthcare costs for the post-WWII baby boom generation really start to kick in. The words deckchairs and Titanic come to mind, but I can understand why constitutional issues such as the 1707 Union and being in or out of the EU serves as a useful deflection from facing the grim realities fiscally. Either way the future is not going to be particularly rosy.

[Peppino Impastato]

Correction. No criminality has yet been proved.

Exactly, which means she's done nothing wrong that we know of, that's not a correction at all that's an analysis retentive clarification.

[strichener]

Correction. No criminality has yet been proved.

Correction.  No criminality has yet been identified.

[Ad Lib]

Correction. No criminality has yet been identified.

Those statements are consistent.

She did do wrong. She exploited hard-up people in low value homes for depressed sales.