Cameron 'doesn't care' about Scotland

[renton]

Any scottish shipyards closed/jobs lost since the indy vote-no

SNP scaremongering that fide sucks up like a baby sucking on its mums breast-defo yes.

 

Do you read the news at all?

[kevthedee]

Do you read the news at all?

Yes i do,lots of stories about the shipyards,but its all just speculation of what might happen.

[renton]

Yes i do,lots of stories about the shipyards,but its all just speculation of what might happen.

 

Well, let's look at the facts.

 

Since the indy ref, plans to turn Scotstoun into a 'frigate factory' have been shelved. This would've involved considerable investment into the yard, and was aimed at making it not just the main yard for the future generation of UK warships, but also squarely aimed at securing export markets. Something the British maritime industries have struggled with since the late 70s.

 

Still, what about the T-26 frigates, intended to replace the 13 T-23 frigates now in service? Well, since the last SDSR there have been changes to both schedules and numbers. There is now only 8 T-26s confirmed to be built. The government intends to build 5 cheaper general purpose ships, presumably on the same hull type, however these have not been confirmed and exist only as a concept, not even as a fully fledged design. Even it's stated purpose - it's design intent and mission profile has not been nailed down beyond being 'general purpose'. Thus pinning your hopes on those 5 ships is pretty damn wooly at the minute. The fact that the government is looking to smooth it's procurement cycles over a longer time frame points to them knowing they might only build the confirmed ASW frigates.

 

Indeed, let's look at the last tranche of naval procurement.

 

The 14 T-42 AAW destroyers were meant to be replaced by 12 T-45s. That number shrank, first to 8 and finally to 6.

 

There were 5 Swiftsure class submarines and 7 trafalgar class submarines. The new Astute class submarines were meant to be replacing the Swiftsures and the 2 oldest Trafalgar class submarines. Plans for the other 5 Trafalgars were meant to be a new design or an improved tranche 2 Astute. Instead the 7 Astutes now replace the 12 older subs, so that's an overall reduction in numbers of 5.

 

HMS Ocean, the helicopter carrier is being reitred without replacement, even though it was meant to last to 2022 with a replacement planned.

 

In other words, every successive plan has reduced the number of replacements, meaning the less work is shared around the same size workforce. this strain inevitably leads to job losses.

 

So you can see why some might be sceptical about the idea that those 5 GP ships, hived off from the main contract that had been signed and had long lead items already bought, will eventually be built.

 

So, speculation, yes. Nothing is confirmed - however, would you say the outlook for Scotstoun post Indy ref is brighter than pre-indy ref, the same or worse?

[Fide]

I can almost hear KevtheDee having a full frontal aneurysm from here.

[mjw]

Really, he has been on daily politics this weekend was speaking in the commons yesterday.

Not heard much from Clydeside MSP JoLo,Lord McConnell of PFI or the other assorted defenstrated labour parliamentarians of late. I'm sure they will be along to help Kez any day now.

JoLo was digging up Humza Yousef on Twitter last night about SNP cuts in Glasgow.

No mention of shipyards though.

[Peppino Impastato]

 

Yet another fiction. The section 30 Order came into effect in February 2013. They would have had nine and a half months in 2013 to hold the referendum if they wanted to.

You're not very good at this.

Not true, the last three months of 2013 were out as nobody holds votes in bad weather as you know, and six months was unrealistic. The only possible option was 2014, which I said right at the start, WM gave the SNP one option 2014 or never.

Why you persist in arguing nonsense and pedantry to deny simple facts I have no idea, other than its just your nature.

[Granny Danger]

Well, let's look at the facts.

 

Since the indy ref, plans to turn Scotstoun into a 'frigate factory' have been shelved. This would've involved considerable investment into the yard, and was aimed at making it not just the main yard for the future generation of UK warships, but also squarely aimed at securing export markets. Something the British maritime industries have struggled with since the late 70s.

 

Still, what about the T-26 frigates, intended to replace the 13 T-23 frigates now in service? Well, since the last SDSR there have been changes to both schedules and numbers. There is now only 8 T-26s confirmed to be built. The government intends to build 5 cheaper general purpose ships, presumably on the same hull type, however these have not been confirmed and exist only as a concept, not even as a fully fledged design. Even it's stated purpose - it's design intent and mission profile has not been nailed down beyond being 'general purpose'. Thus pinning your hopes on those 5 ships is pretty damn wooly at the minute. The fact that the government is looking to smooth it's procurement cycles over a longer time frame points to them knowing they might only build the confirmed ASW frigates.

 

Indeed, let's look at the last tranche of naval procurement.

 

The 14 T-42 AAW destroyers were meant to be replaced by 12 T-45s. That number shrank, first to 8 and finally to 6.

 

There were 5 Swiftsure class submarines and 7 trafalgar class submarines. The new Astute class submarines were meant to be replacing the Swiftsures and the 2 oldest Trafalgar class submarines. Plans for the other 5 Trafalgars were meant to be a new design or an improved tranche 2 Astute. Instead the 7 Astutes now replace the 12 older subs, so that's an overall reduction in numbers of 5.

 

HMS Ocean, the helicopter carrier is being reitred without replacement, even though it was meant to last to 2022 with a replacement planned.

 

In other words, every successive plan has reduced the number of replacements, meaning the less work is shared around the same size workforce. this strain inevitably leads to job losses.

 

So you can see why some might be sceptical about the idea that those 5 GP ships, hived off from the main contract that had been signed and had long lead items already bought, will eventually be built.

 

So, speculation, yes. Nothing is confirmed - however, would you say the outlook for Scotstoun post Indy ref is brighter than pre-indy ref, the same or worse?

Treating kevthedee as a serious adult is a mistake. I just thought I'd point that out.

[Bishop Briggs]

Yet another fiction. The section 30 Order came into effect in February 2013. They would have had nine and a half months in 2013 to hold the referendum if they wanted to.

You're not very good at this.

 

No response from Fuzzy brain?

[mikedafc]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14449883.David_Cameron_said_he_didn_t_care_about_Scotland_days_after_independence_referendum__ex_MP_claims/?ref=mrb&lp=1

shocker wouldn't have guessed this at all. And the precise opposite of what ad fib said a fortnight ago whilst he was trolling.

It is a Scottish Parliament election so it should be fought by Scottish Leaders of the parties

[Fide]

No response from Fuzzy brain?

 

When you've found a new toy, you really do go all out with it don't you?

[Bishop Briggs]

When you've found a new toy, you really do go all out with it don't you?

 

Other posters have made similar comments in the past so why are you so bothered about that little reminder? When presented with simple and referenced facts, Fuzzy/Peppy just ignores them. He readily dishes out criticism in vitriolic terms but can't take even the mildest rebuke or admit that he was mistaken. That's typical sociopathic behaviour.

[Fide]

Other posters have made similar comments in the past so why are you so bothered about that little reminder? When presented with simple and referenced facts, Fuzzy/Peppy just ignores them. He readily dishes out criticism in vitriolic terms but can't take even the mildest rebuke or admit that he was mistaken. That's typical sociopathic behaviour.

 

Don't be so defensive, it was merely an observation.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

When you've found a new toy, you really do go all out with it don't you?

You've got Kev though.

“Please, Mum,can we keep him? Can we?†

[Fide]

You've got Kev though.

“Please, Mum,can we keep him? Can we?†

 

Tbf, that was Lex.

 

I like to mix my insults up a little.

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Pay no attention to Ad Lib. His joke of a party

What the torys?

[Bishop Briggs]

What the torys?

 

In power!

[John Lambies Doos]

In power!

Are you a tory BB?

[Bishop Briggs]

Are you a tory BB?

 

I'm not a Tory.

 

Surely you remember my support for real independence outside the EU.

[AUFC90]

I'm not a Tory.

Surely you remember my support for real independence outside the EU.

You're a no voter, regardless of the reasons. Ironically Scotland looks as if it's going to keep the UK 'in' ðŸ‘.

[Bishop Briggs]

You're a no voter, regardless of the reasons. Ironically Scotland looks as if it's going to keep the UK 'in' .

 

That's news to me. 

 

Why did you post such a blatant lie?