Shades75 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Informed consenting adults should not be prevented from enagaging in sexual acts with each other. Simple principle. Your turn. When that act can result in a child? The issues that the child would suffer? The tainting of the gene pool?I think it's an incredible position to take for the sake of an argument. In some cases, I believe, it's wise to accept that the opinion of wider society and law is in fact, correct. Edited May 20, 2016 by Shades75 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) No they wouldn't. If you are tea total and discourage people from drinking alcohol but you wouldn't criminalise it are you "for" alcohol? Are you "for" the Old Firm given you don't want to criminalise their existence? A shite analogy, completely irrelevant. If I do, or do not, take class A drugs and I advocate for their de-criminilisation, then yes that would make me an advocate for drugs, my use would be irrelevant. Edited May 20, 2016 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 When that act can result in a child? The issues that the child would suffer? The tainting of the gene pool? 1. Couldn't care less if it could result in a child. It needn't necessarily. Incest is not the same as inbreeding. 2. Contraception exists and if blood relatives want to have a child that's their choice. There are many families in which blood relatives share the primary caregiving so there is no principled opposition to blood relatives having a child from a nurture perspective. 3. If your objection is based on genetics, then to be consistent you have to say that some severely disabled people and carriers of certain genes shouldn't be allowed to engage in sexual acts or reproduce and that we should forcibly abort foetuses identified as displaying severe genetic defects. I find that, in principle, to be morally unacceptable. 4. If your concern is that incest might lead to inbreeding surely you have no objection to same-sex incest, or non-vaginal penetrative sexual activity? Otherwise it's not really your reason at all. I suspect the real reason people like you want incest to be a criminal offence is you think it's "icky" and "unnatural" and that that gives you the right to dictate the conduct of other people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 A shite analogy, completely irrelevant. If I do, or do not, take class A drugs and I advocate for their de-criminilisation, then yes that would make me an advocate for drugs, my use would be irrelevant. No that's utterly absurd. That would not make you an advocate for drugs. That would make you an advocate for drug decriminalisation. You are engaging in the same logic as the religious right in America who paint people who think a woman should have the right to choose what happens to her body as being "pro abortion". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 1. Couldn't care less if it could result in a child. It needn't necessarily. Incest is not the same as inbreeding. 2. Contraception exists and if blood relatives want to have a child that's their choice. There are many families in which blood relatives share the primary caregiving so there is no principled opposition to blood relatives having a child from a nurture perspective. 3. If your objection is based on genetics, then to be consistent you have to say that some severely disabled people and carriers of certain genes shouldn't be allowed to engage in sexual acts or reproduce and that we should forcibly abort foetuses identified as displaying severe genetic defects. I find that, in principle, to be morally unacceptable. 4. If your concern is that incest might lead to inbreeding surely you have no objection to same-sex incest, or non-vaginal penetrative sexual activity? Otherwise it's not really your reason at all. I suspect the real reason people like you want incest to be a criminal offence is you think it's "icky" and "unnatural" and that that gives you the right to dictate the conduct of other people. Your last paragraph is entirely in keeping with what i'd expect from you. It's the type of comment that singles you out as a rather pitiful individual. I'm not going to debate the rights and wrongs of incestuous behaviour. That you will, and are willing to make a case for it is completely indicative of a warped mind. Later. You moron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Looking forward to the illiterate, illogical replies to this post. I'm waiting for him to disclose that his maw is indeed his sister. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) No that's utterly absurd. That would not make you an advocate for drugs. That would make you an advocate for drug decriminalisation. Only a person in the legal world would differentiate between the two. By being for the decriminalisation of drugs, you are giving your OK for this to be aceeptable in society. You are engaging in the same logic as the religious right in America who paint people who think a woman should have the right to choose what happens to her body as being "pro abortion".No I really am not. Not like you to try to conflate two completely different stances though. Edited May 20, 2016 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Your last paragraph is entirely in keeping with what i'd expect from you. It's the type of comment that singles you out as a rather pitiful individual. ^^^ Has no principled response I'm not going to debate the rights and wrongs of incestuous behaviour. Still not got an argument. That you will, and are willing to make a case for it is completely indicative of a warped mind. Later. You moron. Scrambling away with his tail between his legs after getting schooled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Only a person in the legal world would differentiate between the two. By being for the decriminalisation of drugs, you are giving your OK for this to be aceeptable in society. Advocating and accepting are different things. The clue is in the fact that they're different words, with different meanings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 ^^^ Has no principled response Still not got an argument. Scrambling away with his tail between his legs after getting schooled. Friend of and apologist for, deviants. Where does that end? You're a troublesome individual and should be watched. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Only a person in the legal world would differentiate between the two. By being for the decriminalisation of drugs, you are giving your OK for this to be aceeptable in society. No this is utter nonsense. Anyone with a basic appreciation of the English language can make the distinction. There are myriad of ways other than criminal sanction that you can communicate the unacceptability of something in society. Only a myopic person who can only see the world in black and white would suggest otherwise. No I really am not. Not like you to try to conflate two completely different stances though. Yes you are. You are the one conflating different stances here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 In other words "I'm incapable"."The chlamydia kid". 😂 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Oh my. I will concede your point about disabilities and agree that its not entirely a black and white issue but its a very very dark grey. However my objection to incest is more in relation to the fact it often stems from child abuse and familial abuse, it is a certainty that the kid will be fucked up, either emotionally, genetically or both. I get that you are a liberal, but for fucks sake there are some things that have to be illegal. Child abuse is of course a separate criminal offence. Next? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I think they are both related and both rightly criminal, no two people will engage in incest without being conditioned, thus in my opinion not being able to properly consent to it. Absolute nonsense. Just because some instances involve abuses of power doesn't mean they all do. Some people end up in relationships with siblings having not even grown up around each other, for example. If your concern is children or vulnerable adults, put protections in place for them. Don't criminalise absolutely every incest case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Quote of the century. It is however a crime so is justly criminalised.Why doesn't it surprise me that the forum's resident PC Plod thinks "it's a crime" is an argument for why something "is justly criminalised"?The law should protect children and vulnerable adults. We have crimes like, you know, rape and statutory rape, that already deal with this. It doesn't require incest to be a criminal offence to get these abusers. Edited May 20, 2016 by Ad Lib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Why doesn't it surprise me that the forum's resident PC Plod thinks "it's a crime" is an argument for why something "is justly criminalised"? The law should protect children and vulnerable adults. We have crimes like, you know, rape and statutory rape, that already deal with this. It doesn't require incest to be a criminal offence to get these abusers. ^^ Never had the last word in real life in his puff. Sister's quite a hottie though. Which he finds frustrating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Lol you really have lost it a wee bit with the whole resorting to pishy insults, 'resident pc plod'? thats primary 7 patter. think im beginning to understand why you dont practice. Also turn your attention to my first post on this thread where I quite clearly say the OBAF act isnt fit for purpose, kinda goes against your snooty assertion that I blindly follow my masters whim. But honestly continue, do you think beastiality should be legalised between consenting animals and humans?? If this is P7 level patter then you're providing nursery level logic and argument. Animals can't consent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 But surely as a liberal and a legal expert you'd know that consent doesnt have to be verbal? It's not the inability to speak that means an animal can't consent. It's their insufficient cognitive abilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Id disagree some dogs/dolphins and apes are more intelligent than humans, take rangers fans for example. There is a good case for saying that the law should not presume the capacity of Rangers fans to consent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Ad lib is right in that there isn't a medical argument that doesn't also apply to thousands of other relationships, and there isn't a moral argument which isn't already covered by other crimes.But it's a nice evening, so I'm not getting involved in this. Edited May 20, 2016 by Carl Cort's Hamstring 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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