Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[rowsdower]

Thanks for typing out the goalies name, I meant to do a Google to find out what the commentators were saying. I'm guessing they used the shite BBC lineups to get amaluzors name wrong. 

I don't think Fontaine was either man of the match or a collosus, but the commentary guys were OK. Your cameraman was pished though,  I got seasick. 

[well fan for life]

5 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

defensively you just allowed us to put about 4000 balls into the box

This is literally our game plan btw. Like genuinely what we aim to have happen.

[capt_oats]

22 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

I was surprised how poor you guys were today. You had nothing going forward and your defence seemed pretty shakey. The 'want' wasn't there either.

As others have pointed out Grimshaw's not kicked a ball for the first team since the New Year game against Accies in January, Ojala is 5 minutes in the door and was making his debut so that's a back 4 who have never played a first team game together.

In midfield Donnelly's just back from a long term injury and Slattery's another who's just in the door.

Up front Van Veen's carrying a knock so wasn't in the squad and we started with Watt on the bench (again).

@thisGRAEME's post sums it up but looking at that starting XI the number of players in there who are either playing their first games after long term injury or are just coming back from long term injury or are simply squad players (or not good enough) makes it feel like we've consciously treated the game like a training match (which has been a theme through the group stages of the tournament) and that's where the frustration lies.

Edit to add: absolutely none of that is shade on Dundee in a "we were playing our Reserves/weren't trying" type of way. Fair fucks on winning.

Edited August 14, 2021 by capt_oats

[ZX1886]

I agree with what others have said. The approach to this tournament compared to that of Robinson (or even McGhee) has been very poor. Trying to think of the last time we were knocked out before the quarters? Celtic 5-0 under McGhee?

Apart from the performance against Hibs, for which we have nothing to show, it’s been a really poor start to the season.

Still need more signings, our midfield is very poor.

[capt_oats]

5 minutes ago, ZX1886 said:

I agree with what others have said. The approach to this tournament compared to that of Robinson (or even McGhee) has been very poor. Trying to think of the last time we were knocked out before the quarters? Celtic 5-0 under McGhee?

Apart from the performance against Hibs, for which we have nothing to show, it’s been a really poor start to the season.

Still need more signings, our midfield is very poor.

19/20 - we lost 2-1 at Fir Park to the Hearts side who were relegated with 8 games to go.

Edited August 14, 2021 by capt_oats

[ZX1886]

19/20 - we lost 2-1 at Fir Park to the Hearts side that were relegated with 8 games to go.

I knew there was one I couldn’t remember, very poor that night against Levein’s Hearts, but ultimately unlucky.

I don’t think we were unlucky today, if the focus is on the league then surely we should be expecting at least 4pts from the next two games.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Pass marks for me probably only really went to Kelly today. Although I thought Grimmy was decent enough after a long period out.

Donnelly, Carroll and Woolery were all particularly bad for me. The amount of times the ball went out on that left side due to mis-controlling was really irking me.

We’re making mistakes you’d expect to see an amateur team make in their first pre season game, continuously.

I really want to like Barry Maguire, local boy, academy product and all that, but today was another day of forgetting that he was playing and wondering what he offers. I really think we can retire the suggestion that he’s good at set pieces by now.

[capt_oats]

11 minutes ago, ZX1886 said:

I knew there was one I couldn’t remember, very poor that night against Levein’s Hearts, but ultimately unlucky.

I don’t think we were unlucky today, if the focus is on the league then surely we should be expecting at least 4pts from the next two games.

Tbh, it's just been a very weird start to the season.

I thought the Hibs performance was...good? and the St Johnstone game was fine. Not a great performance but I'm strongly of the opinion that we never actually play well at McDiarmid Park anyway so I'm judging it more on the result and the fact we created a pile of chances.

Flip it to the League Cup though...where we've been bouncing players in and out of the side and we've seen poor performances and results.

Not to kick him or anything and I'm not picking on Lawleff specifically but it seems relevant that he hasn't started either of our league games but he's started 4 out of 5 in the LC. I get that today may have been a case of him getting a run out after popping up with a lovely assist for Watt's goal last week but I don't think I'm being controversial in saying that if we're picking our "best" XI then he doesn't start.

In a sense we're in the same place now as we were before the game. We still need a few players...we already knew that and Alexander's already admitted that we're still looking to bring players in.

Edited August 14, 2021 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, capt_oats said:

the fact we created a pile of chances.

TBF were the majority of chances not from set plays?

Watts two obviously weren't, but that was up against a kid playing only his 2nd senior game.

Can't remember Motherwell threatening from open play much at all.

[capt_oats]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

TBF were the majority of chances not from set plays?

Watts two obviously weren't, but that was up against a kid playing only his 2nd senior game.

Can't remember Motherwell threatening from open play much at all.

Van Veen had one early-ish doors that Clark got down to his left to save.

Was the one van Veen had in the 2nd half that was cleared off the line from a set piece?

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, capt_oats said:

Van Veen had one early-ish doors that Clark got down to his left to save.

Was the one van Veen had in the 2nd half that was cleared off the line from a set piece?

I can't remember from memory tbh, I'm just sure Clarks wundersaves all came from set plays directly or in the aftermath. Happy to admit I might be wrong.

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I can't remember from memory tbh, I'm just sure Clarks wundersaves all came from set plays directly or in the aftermath. Happy to admit I might be wrong.

It was 2nd phase from a throw. Ball hit the post and it was a save rather than a clearance.

I mean I'm not precious about it, right now to me a chance is a chance regardless of whether it's from open play or a set piece. 

[Well Well]

Just back from Dundee and what can I say. The game for me was summed up when Woolery collected a crossfield ball inside the Dundee half and all he needed to do was turn and take on their right back..So what does he do..? turns back and fires a long ball back to Liam Kelly...60 yard back pass, I mean WTAF..??. No attempt to build a proper attack as we are too busy trying to be careful and not lose the ball by playing it across the back (as usual). I wonder if the manager is actually discouraging players from going over the halfway line as we seem to turn back every time we done it. We are so far off the pace its actually embarrassing. Dundee won everything in midfield. Maguire was chasing Dundee shadows and tackled thin air. He never won 1 tackle, not one. Slattery is trying to cover but its actually stopping him from playing his normal game. Maguire was rightly subbed for a terrible performance.

We need to sack whoever is our fitness coach as these guys look knackered after 45 minutes. The players actually move faster in the pre match warm up and I am not joking. Kelly was impressive again and its a shame he watches what must be a disheartening performance in front of him week in week out. The Finnish player will be fine when he settles and he should partner O'Connor who may be young but done nothing wrong in the group games. 

So the managers is asking for patience and support but if we could actually see some progress or desire we would. We are seeing players trying not to lose rather than trying to win and failing miserably.

[thisGRAEME]

43 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I get that today may have been a case of him getting a run out after popping up with a lovely assist for Watt's goal last week but I don't think I'm being controversial in saying that if we're picking our "best" XI then he doesn't start.

 

31 minutes ago, Well Well said:

The Finnish player will be fine when he settles and he should partner O'Connor who may be young but done nothing wrong in the group games. 

On both of these; doesn't make a lick of sense.

Lawless gets a run for that but Watt sits.

O'Connor looked absolutely fine to me but we've got Lamie. 

I dunno, maybe it's injuries or fitness or grand plans that I'm too thick to see, but neither make any sense. 

[capt_oats]

5 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

On both of these; doesn't make a lick of sense.

Lawless gets a run for that but Watt sits.

O'Connor looked absolutely fine to me but we've got Lamie. 

I dunno, maybe it's injuries or fitness or grand plans that I'm too thick to see, but neither make any sense. 

I mean, I understand not playing O'Connor purely because I've a feeling that he's only here as cover and to try and develop.

The Watt thing though. It's like some 4D chess where we've said "right Tony, you've been playing well but we need to give Shields some game time to get minutes in him. Would you mind parking yourself on the bench for a couple of games and we'll give you 30 mins in the 2nd half?"

[Costanza]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

19/20 - we lost 2-1 at Fir Park to the Hearts side who were relegated with 8 games to go.

We knocked you out at the same stage last season on the way to winning the trophy. Calum Hendry even scored.

[capt_oats]

9 minutes ago, Costanza said:

We knocked you out at the same stage last season on the way to winning the trophy. Calum Hendry even scored.

Aye. I realised this about 10 minutes ago.

That said, we skipped the group stages last season on account of the EUROPA qualifying rounds so it didn't really feel a like-for-like comparison with this time around.

Edited August 14, 2021 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

35 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

The Watt thing though. It's like some 4D chess where we've said "right Tony, you've been playing well but we need to give Shields some game time to get minutes in him. Would you mind parking yourself on the bench for a couple of games and we'll give you 30 mins in the 2nd half?"

This is what I don't get. He came off the bench last week and dragged us back into the game. He's been, arguably, our best player for the last 18 months. Yet Alexander turns up to this game still using the cup to give folk a run out.

It's a reach to say it's a chance at silverware in a competition we've one once in 135 years but f**k me he could at least pretend to be interested.

[capt_oats]

27 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

This is what I don't get. He came off the bench last week and dragged us back into the game. He's been, arguably, our best player for the last 18 months. Yet Alexander turns up to this game still using the cup to give folk a run out.

It's a reach to say it's a chance at silverware in a competition we've one once in 135 years but f**k me he could at least pretend to be interested.

Aye.

Like, if there's no Reserve league running this season (is there? IDK?) I get his rationale in wanting to get the squad as a whole up to speed. Like yourself and others in The Thread this isn't really a heads-gone from me more just a frustration.

Last week we made 1 change from the game against Hibs - Shields in for Watt.

Today we had 3 changes from the game against St Johnstone and 4 from the Hibs game.

Maybe I'm being unfair and the changes were injury related (I know KVV was apparently carrying a knock for example) but given how we've chopped and changed the team specifically in the League Cup and carried ourselves generally in the competition then it's hard not to draw conclusions.

In a way I'd be much more concerned if that had been our "best IX" out there who had put in a performance/result like that against Dundee. As it was we had a back 4 and a front 3 who had never played together.

Consider me stunned we didn't look a coherent team.

Edited August 14, 2021 by capt_oats

['WellDel]

Was working today so never seen or heard anything of the game, and can only go by the general opinions I'm seeing, and my overall feeling is just one of wtf?

We have 2 chances of lifting silverware each year, and that's the first one gone already, and with a whimper at that.

After scraping through the group stage, I'd have thought Alexander would show the appropriate respect to the 'competition proper'. Alas he's seen fit to omit some of our better performers, and instead give a centre half his debut, a full back who's only just rejoined the first team squad after a lengthy illness a start when he'd obviously be nowhere near match sharp, and Stevie fucking Lawless a jersey. If that lineup wasn't a boot to the baws for the travelling support when they saw it at 2pm, god knows what would be. (apart from the hapless performance that inevitably followed).

It's obviously very early days. The seasons just started and there are still a couple of weeks of the window to go, but.... when Alexander first came in I felt it was a bit of a coup, starting to wonder with some of his questionable decisions though whether he just is a fucking coo.