Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[joewarkfanclub]

5 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

We should have thanked Ricki Lamie at the end of last season and let him go, especially after the whole Dundee PCA. Was all a very short-sighted and strange situation, much like the rest of the summer business.

When Lamie first came into the team under Robinson, he was atrocious and, while I think he has improved and been steady at times, I reckon he's probably had more poor games than good games for us. We're bizarrely now a bit over-stocked in terms of CBs (especially if we can keep Casey), so if Lamie can find a club then we should just let him leave. Bevis? I like Bevis. 

Blaney has impressed me every time he's played so far too. 

I think the problem with both Lamie and Bevis is that they can look like good players a lot of the time, but bith seem to have at least one mistake a game in them.

Thats what was hurting us under Hammell. We werent shipping goals but the ones we did lose were self inflicted and more often than not cost us valuable points. 

They were undoubtedly more exposed playing in a flat 4 and Hammells refusal to identify and change that is one of the things that ultimately did for him.

Edited May 22, 2023 by joewarkfanclub

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Blaney is obviously a "project" of sorts. I'm not sure whose choice he was to sign, but I'd definitely be giving him the last two games in Casey's absence to give us a bigger picture of what he can do.

Mugabi seems like a top man, but I really don't rate him. He got on relatively well under Grezza because he was pretty much asked to head it and kick it. Any time there is any onus on him to bring the ball out from the back or to pass it, he looks like he really struggles. He's also got a mistake in him.

Lamie is one that I actually think would fine under Kettlewell. I wouldn't want him to be a first pick, but say we had to drop him in there for a couple of games, I think we'd get by. He had a nightmare under Hammell, but who didn't? A lot of players have proved to be much better under Kettlewell. However, I think of all of our excess centre backs, he'd be the one who I think we should proactively be looking to move on. Firstly, he's probably on the highest wages and secondly, I think he'll have the most suitors. Despite his poor season, I reckon he could still probably get a bottom half Premiership move.

 

[Swello]

As long as we don't pick our auxiliary centre half on the basis of which one is the nicest guy, I'll be fine with it.

[well fan for life]

I also assume being our vice-captain () Lamie's on a decent wage. I'd rather not be paying over the odds for someone we only resort to in an emergency.

['WellDel]

15 minutes ago, Swello said:

As long as we don't pick our auxiliary centre half on the basis of which one is the nicest guy, I'll be fine with it.

Out of the two, I'd probably opt for Mugabi over Lamie. Ask him to do the basics of win the ball and clear his lines and he's fine. Lamie seems to win a lot aerially, but watching him then launch long floated diagonals to absolutely no cvnt does my nut in.

So Bev edges it for me, the fact he seems like a constant big ray of fucking sunshine is just a bonus to have around the place. Suppose as others have said it's down to whether any of them fancy another season parked mainly on the bench.

[capt_oats]

4 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Aye, fair point.

It comes back to the usual tricky balancing act of playing three at the back so needing two as cover - so how good will Motherwell's fifth choice centre back ever be?

To this point, I suppose it brings up the pathway question as well.

Someone like Sam Campbell has missed the full season due to injury but prior to that he was in conversation with Brighton, Leeds and Liverpool about a potential move.

Like, I've never seen him play but in principle if we're making the argument about us offering a pathway then I'm not sure how that squares exactly if we're now stacked 6 deep with senior centre backs.

It's that argument that it's more realistic to think that much like Turnbull, Campbell etc these are players we've developed who were better than anything we could afford to sign.

Who knows maybe there's another Hutchinson cutting about the #YoungMotherwell squad.

[Ron Aldo]

I'd bin Lamie over Mugabi every time. 

 

Mugabi in the right system can be solid enough IMO and is less likely to make a c**t of things. Lamie clearly thinks he's a far better player than he is and I'd imagine will be the higher earner of the pair after somehow convincing us to give him a new contract. 

 

I think we'll look to move on one of them and, based on absolutely nothing in particular, I think whichever one it is will end up at Dundee. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

The McGinn-O'Donnell-Johnston situation was already annoying but I've just remembered we were playing Bevis at right-back for most of last season while Johnston was at QotS 

[well fan for life]

6 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

The McGinn-O'Donnell-Johnston situation was already annoying but I've just remembered we were playing Bevis at right-back for most of last season while Johnston was at QotS 

Bevis up front though.

[Desp]

22 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

I'd bin Lamie over Mugabi every time.  

Get them both launched in the summer if possible.  Simply not good enough.

If we're lucky enough to retain McGinn, Butcher & Casey as the back three next season, with Blaney there as back-up/challenging for a spot, do we really need any other senior centre halves?  As @capt_oats alluded to, we've got the young lad Campbell to come back in, providing all is well with his injury.  Who was the other lad that was at EK on loan - Dunachie?  Surely that's what these lads are there for.  If there's a four or five game spell next season where we need to call on one them?  Good.  Same with the likes of Lennon Miller.  Far better to watch that than some fucking non-entity who's here on loan from Stockport County (hiya Ollie! hiya pal!) who doesn't give a f**k.

There's no need for Motherwell to have two senior players for every position in the squad.  Have a core squad of 18 senior players, with guys like SOD, McGinn & Spittal who are able to cover two or three positions when needed, supplemented by a few guys from the Academy. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Desp

[Handsome_Devil]

4 minutes ago, Desp said:

If we're lucky enough to retain McGinn, Butcher & Casey as the back three next season, with Blaney there as back-up/challenging for a spot, do we really need any other senior centre halves? 

If you don't have an accident, was insurance a waste of money?

You could well be right and we could absolutely get away with it.

On the other hand, one of them could tear a cruciate, the Campbell is the new Bobby Donnelly rather than Hutchison and we're walking a fine line for months.

So it's all about balancing risk. Not far off a glorified guess on getting lucky or unlucky with injuries.

The notion of a season where we had five viable first team keepers would have bee hilarious until it happened!

I agree it's why we need a balance of specialist and generalists, as it were...McGinn being just about passable in around five positions is a massive help.

[Desp]

Of course it's about balancing risk and hoping for a bit of luck.  You look at the season where McCall took us to 2nd when our first XI was sensational but our back-ups were Hollis, Carswell, Cummings, Kerr, Angol etc.  Less than 12 months later, we were flying towards a relegation play-off.

If you're asking me to evaluate the risk and take a chance either way, I'm putting my money on the young lads stepping up in an emergency. Before that emergency you can shuffle the team about.  Use the "generalists" as you call them (McGinn could play midfield, SOD at centre half, Spittal at wing-back) and bring other senior players in.  For me, I'd much rather that than next season's version of Jack Aitchison, Harry Paton or Riku Danzaki, whoever they may be.

Of course, it's not my job on the line so we'll see what Kettlewell does with it.  I'd be disappointed if his words about "a pathway" were simply nonsense, though.

 

[Handsome_Devil]

8 minutes ago, Desp said:

Of course it's about balancing risk and hoping for a bit of luck.  You look at the season where McCall took us to 2nd when our first XI was sensational but our back-ups were Hollis, Carswell, Cummings, Kerr, Angol etc.  Less than 12 months later, we were flying towards a relegation play-off.

If you're asking me to evaluate the risk and take a chance either way, I'm putting my money on the young lads stepping up in an emergency. Before that emergency you can shuffle the team about.  Use the "generalists" as you call them (McGinn could play midfield, SOD at centre half, Spittal at wing-back) and bring other senior players in.  For me, I'd much rather that than next season's version of Jack Aitchison, Harry Paton or Riku Danzaki, whoever they may be.

Of course, it's not my job on the line so we'll see what Kettlewell does with it.  I'd be disappointed if his words about "a pathway" were simply nonsense, though.

 

Fwiw I'd agree...most of our good seasons, off the top of my head, are based on a strong 15 or so staying fit and bodies filling in when needed. Us having a big squad is usually a sign something has gone wrong already...

Your point about the job is also very relevant though - if you deliberately carry a small squad and get found out you look utterly incompetent in a way which is hard to excuse compared to the normal breaks and luck of the game.

[DeadStar]

Can we fire Jack Aitchison into the sun at the end of the season please?

I'd be absolutely raging if I was one of our younger players and this absolute football terrorist is getting sub appearances over me.  

[dezz]

Pains me to say it in regards to Bevis, but I'd look into binning both him and Lamie if we are able to retain Casey. Both are likely to be on a decent wage which could be reinvested elsewhere, and with Casey, Butcher, Blaney and McGinn all capable of playing CB, backed up by SOD, Campbell and Dunachie in any emergencies, we should have enough cover for centre half.

No doubting the 3-5-2 has served us very well since Feb, but I guess we don't really know what Ketts preferred formation is yet. He might have plans of switching to a back 4 next season which could influence recruitment/retention plans. 

[Busta Nut]

I'm starting a campaign to have the 3-5-2 patter binned.

It's 5-3-2 with Full/wing backs who have license to go kamikaze.

[Handsome_Devil]

17 minutes ago, dezz said:

No doubting the 3-5-2 has served us very well since Feb, but I guess we don't really know what Ketts preferred formation is yet. He might have plans of switching to a back 4 next season which could influence recruitment/retention plans. 

In Ketts we trust and all that bollocks but even though he has earned the right to do whatever he wants, if we line up against the Red Lion XI in early July playing 4-3-3 I will have the fear. It's just too soon, don't do this to us again.

[well fan for life]

If we've learned nothing else from Saturday it's that the SOD renaissance is going to be absolutely wonderful.

Give the big handsome b*****d the armband back. 

[Handsome_Devil]

2 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

If we've learned nothing else from Saturday it's that the SOD renaissance is going to be absolutely wonderful.

Give the big handsome b*****d the armband back. 

If he pings one in v United I hope he runs down the east stand, hand to ear, townsley style.

[well fan for life]

2 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

If he pings one in v United I hope he runs down the east stand, hand to ear, townsley style.

I'll be on the park running along behind him. I fucking love SOD.