Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I dunno if the 2hr long journey home from Greenock has mellowed me or something but I'm not as angry as I was leaving the ground. I think I'm just about willing to forgive Kettlewell/the team one absolutely diabolical performance after what has been a pretty decent two months. Obika and Kelly pissed me off the most but honestly I'm just ready for this season to be over. I'm still just about confident that Kettlewell has happened upon a system that will keep us in the league.

[welldaft]

3 minutes ago, Quatermass said:

Kelly must be a very strong character in the dressing room and Kettlewell is worried about losing the squad by dropping him and bringing on an almighty sulk. Either that or Oxborough is utter filth. It’s inexplicable that he keeps getting selected.

We have Kettlewell and Kelly for 14 more games. Tonight doesn’t sting me as much as it has others on here. I understand very much why it has but I’m more concerned about the league. We have been put out of the Scottish Cup for the last 33 years in a row. It’s nothing new sadly. We haven’t been relegated once in that same period. This holds untold consequences which, let’s face it, on tonights showing could be absolutely brutal for everything about the Club.

Once our fate has been secured for next season the Club need to quietly start looking for a new gaffer. Even if Kettlewell keeps us up we shake his hand and thank him for his time and efforts………but it’s move on time for everyone. It’s unthinkable that he takes charge of us on a new contract next season.

Were you at the game ? That is maybe why it might not sting you. I hate Motherwell losing. But it is marginally better when you are not physically there. 

As much as tonite stings and it does. I am not yet at the Kettlewell binning stage. He has done a decent job on a shoestring budget. Plus he cannot be held accountable for a goalie with as much presence as 4 year old girl. No offence to 4 year old girls. 

Our focus has been on defence. Our focus has been on attack. To me the clear problem we have is between the sticks. Time to admit we have a donkey on goals and try and get someone, anyone in next season

 

[KirkySuperSub]

1 hour ago, Well Well said:

 thought was blatantly obvious from the TV was that Kelly confidence appears absolutely shot. If the manager can't see that he needs a rest then he isn't a good manager at all because he looks done.

100% - He looked like a wean at boys club level, near greetin', looking for his da' to get him outta there.

[Quatermass]

13 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Were you at the game ? That is maybe why it might not sting you. I hate Motherwell losing. But it is marginally better when you are not physically there. 

As much as tonite stings and it does. I am not yet at the Kettlewell binning stage. He has done a decent job on a shoestring budget. Plus he cannot be held accountable for a goalie with as much presence as 4 year old girl. No offence to 4 year old girls. 

Our focus has been on defence. Our focus has been on attack. To me the clear problem we have is between the sticks. Time to admit we have a donkey on goals and try and get someone, anyone in next season

 

Yes, I was at the game and I understand what you mean. I’m just at the age where it doesn’t get to me like that anymore. I’ve witnessed so many of these nights firsthand over the years and I suppose, just personally speaking, my priorities have shifted so much and I don’t go to as many games now, that I get disappointed after a result like this but not upset.

Something like relegation where livelihoods would almost certainly be affected, the status of the Club, the even lower quality of player you could expect, the fear of not getting promotion and the Club getting in a state maybe even it’s future at risk does worry me.

I know if Morton get Rangers at Ibrox in the Quarters we will have missed out on some dosh. Plus a riding.

What I do know is next season we will have at least three League Cup games and one Scottish Cup tie. Another crack at it.

What’s not yet certain are 38 top flight games. Gun to head and was asked to pick a win against County or Morton I probably would have went with the reality. Again, I understand many, maybe the majority, would have went the other way. Can’t argue with that.

Edited February 10 by Quatermass

[welldaft]

2 minutes ago, Quatermass said:

Yes, I was at the game and I understand what you mean. I’m just at the age where it doesn’t get to me like that anymore. I’ve witnessed so many of these nights firsthand over the years and I suppose, just personally speaking, my priorities have shifted so much and I don’t go to as many games now, that I get disappointed after a result like this but not upset.

Something like relegation where livelihoods would almost certainly be affected, the status of the Club, the even lower quality of player you could expect, the fear of not getting promotion and the Club getting in a state maybe even it’s future at risk. 

I know if Morton get Rangers at Ibrox in the Quarters we will have missed out on some dosh. Plus a riding.

What I do know is next season we will have at least three League Cup games and one Scottish Cup tie. Another crack at it.

What’s not yet certain are 38 top flight games. Gun to head and was asked to pick a win against County or Morton I probably would have went with the reality. Again, I understand many, maybe the majority, would have went the other way. Can’t argue with that.

Fair enough. When I was in my 20’s I hated every loss. Sometimes took me days to get over it. 

Then I mellowed. Now in my 50’s it does not hurt so much. But truth be told tonite was a bummer. 

Did I think we could lose. Absolutely. Do I expect us to lose. No. Not after the last few games.

To me the Scottish Cup is special. Almost sacrosanct. 

Another season of underachieving is just tough to take. 

[Big John Handsome]

Could see that result tonight coming a mile away. Ever since Robinson left I've expected nothing from games like this, however I don't know what has to change in order for us to not shit the bed in cup games. Only thing that concerns me in the last few games is the use / lack of subs, saying to my dad the other night that Kettlewell seems inept when it comings to changing things up in a game. I mean, Obika instead of Nicholson?? And against county I would have had some debutants on at the hour mark, get them up to speed instead of flinging them on away to Morton looking to get back in a game. Final point, hopefully Kelly doesn't get a new contract, having been blessed with some top keepers over the years he really is the worst I've seen in a long time in a well top. Anyone else find it counter productive having a keeper as captain? If it was me I'd have someone in defence/midfield who's more able to dictate the game.

[well fan for life]

It is a bit revisionist to say Liam Kelly has always been shite. The first 18 months of his Motherwell career and the last 18 months of it are like two completely different players. At the minute his confidence looks shot to ribbons, you can feel the panic when he's under a cross. 
 

It makes sense to just part ways at the end of the season imo.

[Stevie Kirk]

Until we can stop the habit of losing avoidable first half goals, we are going to struggle no matter who we are playing.

You could see after a few minutes that they were going to press us high up the pitch and we just did not handle it at all. On a bumpy pitch with a heavy wind our players just got dragged into trading long ball hopeful punts.

Second half we tried for a bit to get the ball down the sides but we were too  slow and predictable. Nothing we did looked polished and we made everything look difficult.

Like a few others have said I would take the win on Tuesday over winning tonight. Even if we had somehow fluked a win we would have got papped out in the next round because we are so easy to score against . This is not a team that would take us on a run to Hampden .

 I have been a big fan of Kelly over the years and I think some of the criticism coming his way has been unjustified at times. However that was pathetic tonight and he needs to be dropped .

Also I think I preferred Obika when he was injured.

['WellDel]

Unless Oxborough is happy simply sitting on the bench collecting a wage, he should be taking a sledgehammer to Kettlewell's door asking why he isn't worth a shot over, easily, the worst performing keeper in the league. 

The longer he perseveres with Kelly, the worse his confidence and performances are becoming. He needs dropped for his own good as well as for the sanity of our whole support. Then punt him to fcuk in the summer.

Edited February 10 by 'WellDel

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Obika rather than Nicholson wound me up at the time. I get the logic in that he's allegedly meant to win knockdowns and make the ball stick but idk man, it never really felt we were going to score a goal that way rather than with a bit of a guile. 

Edited February 10 by YassinMoutaouakil

[AnderooMFC]

Ketts stuck by Theo when he was not scoring. Told him he believed in him, gave him all those warm fuzzy feelings that made him feel appreciated... and it worked. Sir Thelonius of Bair has repaid this faith by becoming a league scoring machine.

Ketts is probably trying to do the same with Kells. Tell him he believes in him, give him all the love and support he needs. Only problem is, Liaminothy is not repaying this faith by becoming a goal stopping machine.
You think his confidence looks shot now? How worse would he look being punted to the bench for a game or two??

I am not Ketts. I would drop him anyway. I am a harsh man. And I believe our captaincy is as cursed as our LB. Maybe even more so.

[Handsome_Devil]

7 hours ago, Richie said:

100%.

Was about to post this.

Surprised Halliday didn't start.

Miller is obv quality, but was always going to get bullied today.

Type of game that would have suited Halliday.

Halliday is 32 and went off injured on Tuesday. I'd definitely have picked him if fully fit but given SK's obsession with unchanged teams last season and switching nothing else yesterday, it's probably a safe assumption he wasn't.

[Handsome_Devil]

6 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

I think that's being very wise after the event, we're were all thinking Miller would be our quality young player of the future,  and Halliday would be the solid backup.  Now you're wanting Halliday ahead of Miller ? 

I dunno.    I'd like to see more of Vale and Nicholson, but I'm not immediately convinced they're a gigantic improvement on what started on the pitch. Hope to be proven wrong about that.

I've been clear I'd be bringing Miller in off the bench gradually but given his potential and previous showings it's not unreasonable to hope he'd be ok last night. And I don't think he'd have been recalled if Halliday was fit.

As for Vale and Nicholson, there's only one way to find out. Vale certainly looks direct and, however they came, has two goals in two cameos. There's obviously not quite the same push with Nicholson but again you look at Paton last night and say for all his (sometimes) tidy feet and passing in the middle of the park, around the box he'll duff it nine times out of ten and if we're playing 3-6-1 that's just not cutting it.

[Handsome_Devil]

6 hours ago, welldaft said:

Fair enough. When I was in my 20’s I hated every loss. Sometimes took me days to get over it. 

Then I mellowed. Now in my 50’s it does not hurt so much. But truth be told tonite was a bummer. 

Did I think we could lose. Absolutely. Do I expect us to lose. No. Not after the last few games.

To me the Scottish Cup is special. Almost sacrosanct. 

Another season of underachieving is just tough to take. 

Aye, I'm very similar although a little bit behind in age. What I would say is that there's a massive difference in feeling caused by how you lose in the cup...since reaching the final, the only exit you say fair enough about was Hibs on penalties. There have been three exits to lower league sides in that time and the other losses are Hibs with Mugabi's 60-second red card and (admittedly injury/illness impacted) the 1-4 HT debacle with St Mirren.

It's one thing losing to a bigger club or even a peer in a 50-50...but there really is the feeling that we shoot ourselves in the foot almost every year.

[18May1991]

Last night was very disappointing. To me, the players looked tired/off it from the start. Improved when we changed the wingbacks and brought Halliday on. Though Gent was poor last night - and he’s been very good for us recently. 
 

I still like Kettlewell though, sometimes I wonder why, but I do. So there. 
 

Kelly needs dropped though. For his sake as much as the team’s. No idea what’s going on there - he’s a shell of the player from a couple of years ago. 
 

Biggest disappointment was The Bair not scoring. I’ve searched for answers but can’t find them. The wee man will be up soon. Need to break the news to him. He’ll be crushed. 

[RostokMcSpoons]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

you look at Paton last night and say for all his (sometimes) tidy feet and passing in the middle of the park, around the box he'll duff it nine times out of ten and if we're playing 3-6-1 that's just not cutting it

Agree with that 1000%.  There's definitely a likeable, skillful player in Harry Paton, but right now he's hidden by a player who does good things to get to the crucial moment, and then always fecks it up big style.   

I remain infuriated with him.

I'd have started the substitutions with him way ahead of Gent etc

 

Edit: I'd agree Gent didn't have a great game either, but that was unusual. Paton was playing to his usual form.  In fact I wouldn't have started him

Edited February 10 by RostokMcSpoons

[Reidy]

Well that was grim. 

Easy being a smart-arse in hindsight, and there’s nothing to say we wouldn’t have shat the bed last night regardless, but I thought at 3-0 up at HT and game done vs Ross County on Tuesday we could’ve made some subs earlier to rest a few players ahead of last night. 
 

On the manager, handshake and part ways when his contract is up in the summer feels like the most obvious outcome. As much as last night was evidence to the contrary, we still should have enough to finish a minimum of 10th. 

[capt_oats]

11 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Kettlewell picked the team which has been doing well and which all of us would have picked(ish). 

Yes, he could have changed sooner but I'd blame the players much more than the manager for this one.

Aye. I’m no Kettlewell stan but I agree that was on the players.

Not in a ‘downed tools’ way but they never got to grips with the game and genuinely looked spooked by Morton.

[Handsome_Devil]

29 minutes ago, Reidy said:

On the manager, handshake and part ways when his contract is up in the summer feels like the most obvious outcome. As much as last night was evidence to the contrary, we still should have enough to finish a minimum of 10th. 

Basing decisions on emotional one-off games like the cup is nearly always a bad idea.

Unless there is an obviously stronger viable replacement, the situation hasn't changed - ie SK has three months tops to show continuing and planning for next season is better than ripping it up and scrambling to start a new gamble.

[Swello]

I've slept on it but a nightmare about getting Morton in the playoffs woke me up early and I'm still pissed off with the state of us last night. 

Kelly fumbling a single passback-speed shot about 3 times before we conceded should have been warning enough. Never mind reduced terms, surely we should be parting ways in the summer (he seems genuinely un-droppable, so I won't bother going there). When you think about the better keepers we've had, you felt that they won you points at key times in games. I can think of only one game this season - where he saved a penalty and played well against the team I'm not going to mention in case it summons even more of their supporters onto here - where he's done that. So - thanks and goodbye.

Keeper aside, last night felt like a failure of management to me. We knew Morton were going well (and to be fair, they looked well coached and totally comfortable against us) but there just seemed to be a lack of any kind of shape or game plan - it looked like lower half of the Championship style. A lot of the gains recently seemed to go out the window and we were back in Dingwall in December. I don't think there are many precedents for managers just leaving at the end of their contracts in the way that players do - but that option needs to remain on the table dependant on how it goes between now and the end of the season - any extension before then would be silly.

I said earlier in the week that the cup game could go a long way to defining how we view the season and it's certainly done that. Staying ahead of Ross County is our only (fairly dispiriting) goal for the rest of the season. For lots of reasons, 23/24 is likely to go down as one of the worst seasons in our stint in the top flight - it's felt like an endless boot in the baws and I'm looking forward to May TBH.