Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Vietnam91]

20 minutes ago, Wellin said:

We shouldnt have to rely on selling players like Miller to keep us afloat in my view. The club is struggling just now. That's obvious. 

I didn't say we were, I think you have misunderstood the post. I said that we have a potentially lucrative asset in the wings and investor(s) looking to take a cut of player sales. Say he goes for £2m and part of an agreement this Aussie mob get 25% of sales, we've could have just funnelled out £500k into a VC's hip pocket.

As to your second and third points, it is not shared by me, the overwhelming majority of posters, the WS board or the clubs executive board. A few moonhowlers on X perhaps but they are he sort of people heaping praise on Kettlewell tactics by 8pm last week and want him out the door by before Newsnight.

[Wellin]

12 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

I didn't say we were, I think you have misunderstood the post. I said that we have a potentially lucrative asset in the wings and investor(s) looking to take a cut of player sales. Say he goes for £2m and part of an agreement this Aussie mob get 25% of sales, we've could have just funnelled out £500k into a VC's hip pocket.

As to your second and third points, it is not shared by me, the overwhelming majority of posters, the WS board or the clubs executive board. A few moonhowlers on X perhaps but they are he sort of people heaping praise on Kettlewell tactics by 8pm last week and want him out the door by before Newsnight.

We aren't struggling? We are facing another relegation battle and we need cash. And it's irrelevant in my view who thinks what on what platform - the club itself asked for investment. I've backed the club and the well society (for years) and Kettlewell. 

[eliphas]

There's a lot of made up examples of things getting chucked about here from various people to try and persuade people from different positions. Some pretty big stretches.

For me right now it's as simple as the WS question states (are you up for considering the majority WS shareholding position being up for grabs or not).

Everything else is pure conjecture and not particularly helpful at this juncture.

 

[eliphas]

Regardless of views on either side of the wall one thing 'the video' did that was good was shake things up enough to get some interested parties circling, which in turn seems to kicking the WS in to gear about producing a proper, hopefully deliverable, strategy as the majority stakeholder in the club.

If this all is a catalyst to somehow create a WS strategy to increase that yearly take to a better level than it is today and catalyst to change at the club then all good.

[rowsdower]

Further to the above, seeing the improvement in well society communications, and what from the outside looks like a renewed energy, goes to show what shaking up the board can do.

Regardless of what McMahon and Weir have done in the past, we need to get the new club board members and ceo in place asap, so that they can start doing the same.

 

[Wellin]

54 minutes ago, eliphas said:

There's a lot of made up examples of things getting chucked about here from various people to try and persuade people from different positions. Some pretty big stretches.

For me right now it's as simple as the WS question states (are you up for considering the majority WS shareholding position being up for grabs or not).

Everything else is pure conjecture and not particularly helpful at this juncture.

 

There are board members stating their position whether they are for or against outside investment on social media. Personally. I don't know anyone else in the Well Society who has voted. There's always going to be debate on issues like this. And theres always the potential for people to change their minds later on. Including myself 

[Vietnam91]

41 minutes ago, Wellin said:

We aren't struggling? We are facing another relegation battle and we need cash. And it's irrelevant in my view who thinks what on what platform - the club itself asked for investment. I've backed the club and the well society (for years) and Kettlewell. 

Correct we are not struggling. Next years accounts will show a 7th place finish and associated prize money and a player sale of £500k and you'd expect development compensation for Max and Dean. So 2 of the three doomsday issues averted.

I guess you take top 6 as success? An unlikely win tomorrow takes us to 2 points off 6th, 6 games to play till the split, safety, prize money and hosting one more OF fixture at FP. I'll reiterate ..... 2 points.

From the WS email last night:

It is important to underline that currently:

club finances are stable

the club is not for sale

the Well Society holds a reserve of around £750,000

We are not in a position where fan ownership has demonstrably “failed”, and the investment must be secured to “save” the club.

 

We struggle when a perfect storm happens of 10th, cup exits and no player sales. Accounts have to be signed off with an 18 month forecast come October and without a demonstrable track record from the WS during a period of stagnation then understandable why invitations are invited but equally could be premature. Also many feel we need to give the WS a chance to step up, something you pessimistically feel is unachievable.

3 hours ago, Wellin said:

Fan ownership is fine but I don't think we have enough current members to make it viable in the long term.

But add in McMahon presenting to this to the AGM in 2022, verbatim again in 2023 which was called out by me and holding his hands up, something had to be done and the result of that was the video. He could not rock up this week with yet another apology.

[Wellin]

13 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

Correct we are not struggling. Next years accounts will show a 7th place finish and associated prize money and a player sale of £500k and you'd expect development compensation for Max and Dean. So 2 of the three doomsday issues averted.

I guess you take top 6 as success? An unlikely win tomorrow takes us to 2 points off 6th, 6 games to play till the split, safety, prize money and hosting one more OF fixture at FP. I'll reiterate ..... 2 points.

From the WS email last night:

It is important to underline that currently:

club finances are stable

the club is not for sale

the Well Society holds a reserve of around £750,000

We are not in a position where fan ownership has demonstrably “failed”, and the investment must be secured to “save” the club.

 

We struggle when a perfect storm happens of 10th, cup exits and no player sales. Accounts have to be signed off with an 18 month forecast come October and without a demonstrable track record from the WS during a period of stagnation then understandable why invitations are invited but equally could be premature. Also many feel we need to give the WS a chance to step up, something you pessimistically feel is unachievable.

But add in McMahon presenting to this to the AGM in 2022, verbatim again in 2023 which was called out by me and holding his hands up, something had to be done and the result of that was the video. He could not rock up this week with yet another apology.

I've been paying into the Well Society for several years. I'd be more inclined to discuss this if you weren't making digs at me in your post(s). 

The Well Society could have sent an email out to all of us at any point asking people to up their contributions or to try and get a friend or family member to join. They have everyone's details. 

I'm really not sure what point you are making. If the fan based model is the one that some people prefer - then why did the club make that video in the first place? I'm aware that more people joined the society as a result of the video. But if the society needed or wanted people to step up and give more donations - why didn't they go down this route first? 

We are in another relegation fight - that's why I used the word struggling. 

Edited February 24 by Wellin

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Livi getting a point is probably good for us. As long as its not too much of a confidence booster ahead of Wednesday. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I reckon Yengi should be our next Project Bair also.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, rowsdower said:

Oh, look at that, we have young team videos again.

There they are...

[eliphas]

2 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

potentially lucrative asset in the wings and investor(s) looking to take a cut of player sales. Say he goes for £2m and part of an agreement this Aussie mob get 25% of sales, we've could have just funnelled out £500k into a VC's hip pocket

Is this all conjecture? Or are you party to some inside info on the bid?

If it's the former then, for talking sake, let's say the Aussie mob agree that they don't take a cut from players sales that are already in the academy and they take 5% from any sale not including development fees. They don't take any cut if the club is running at a loss.

Edited February 24 by eliphas

[Vietnam91]

39 minutes ago, Wellin said:

I've been paying into the Well Society for several years. I'd be more inclined to discuss this if you weren't making digs at me in your post(s). 

The Well Society could have sent an email out to all of us at any point asking people to up their contributions or to try and get a friend or family member to join. They have everyone's details. 

I'm really not sure what point you are making. If the fan based model is the one that some people prefer - then why did the club make that video in the first place? I'm aware that more people joined the society as a result of the video. But if the society needed or wanted people to step up and give more donations - why didn't they go down this route first? 

We are in another relegation fight - that's why I used the word struggling. 

In answer every one of your questions

39 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

without a demonstrable track record from the WS during a period of stagnation then understandable why invitations are invited but equally could be premature

 

If you interpret me finding the holes in your position as digs, then you would be better developing more robust points that don't invite criticism.

 

[Wellin]

3 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

In answer every one of your questions

 

If you interpret me finding the holes in your position as digs, then you would be better developing more robust points that don't invite criticism.

 

Im not here to "debate" with someone who called me a moon howler in the first reply. Hope that makes my position clear. 

 

[Vietnam91]

33 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Is this all conjecture? Or are you party to some inside info on the bid?

If it's the former then, for talking sake, let's say the Aussie mob agree that they don't take a cut from players sales that are already in the academy and they take 5% from any sale not including development fees. They don't take any cut if the club is running at a loss.

Of course its conjecture, in the vacuum of detail surely we are free on a forum discuss and debate hypotheticals before you throw in my use of "Say he", its all about stuff to consider. The issue is too many can't distinguish between this and "are you ITK?". I mean you highlighted who you thought it could be and further digging doesn't suggest altruism.

Only a few pages back when a streamer were mentioned, debate varied from reddit to tiktok and youtube. When someone says in an offhand comment they wouldn't welcome dicks like the sidemen it is then jumped on and a whole debate opens up if they'd be capable and their business acumen. That's forums.

With respect to your hypothetical, completely plausible but an offer that wants a controlling percentage in excess of 50% and with pure financial return as their motive that seems very very generous, also a helluva long time for a ROI.

Edited February 24 by Vietnam91

[eliphas]

Absolutely free to discuss what you want of course, everyone is

Presenting it in the way you did, coming up with a fairly detailed hypothetical to further/enhance a point, and throwing quite a lot of passive aggressive ire at someone isn't a great laugh though 

I know you only joined on Thursday but this a place of paneer and GIFs normally. 

Edited February 24 by eliphas

[eliphas]

15 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

With respect to your hypothetical, completely plausible but an offer that wants a controlling percentage in excess of 50% and with pure financial return as their motive that seems very very generous, also a helluva long time for a ROI.

Agreed, I just made it up to make a point.

Edited February 24 by eliphas

[Handsome_Devil]

3 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I think there is maybe an age thing. My first kit was a Zoom airlines one so I just missed out on the peak Boyle years and was barely cognizant of admin while it was happening. Can understand why folk who lived through that are pretty content with just having a Motherwell FC to watch on Saturdays. Maybe I just need someone to come in and say they're going to make us the third force in Scottish football for a bit just to get it out my system.

Ha, maybe. But I was thinking through all the ridiculous scenarios potentially ahead on a jog today and one was when people want investment to go to the 'next level' - whatever that is, never mind third.

If an investor handed us £1m and said add it to the first team budget - no nonsense about infrastructure, marketing etc, transfer fees, wages, matchday bonuses only - the only way they could expect a short-term return from performance - not increased side revenues or transfers - is by winning the cup, finishing third or getting into a Euro playoff. And while that million would be appreciated and it'd close the gap to the city clubs, the gap would still be there (and arguably a chasm to Hearts).

Now that's a ridiculous scenario as I said because it ignores things, makes the timeframe artificially short etc but it's just to illustrate (in general, not directed at you) that anyone thinking there's an investment that'll take us to the next level on the pitch in anything more than the occasional basis we already managed needs a strong shot of a reality.

I'm extremely sceptical we can offer anyone actual returns worth the risk but any model claiming it'll come from on-pitch stuff should be binned immediately, it's total snake oil.

[redstarcvedza]

3 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Agree fully with this as well. My concern with this is that people are taking a very short term view of things. Someone highlighted that if we were 5th (let's be fair, not a million miles away from a possibility had things gone marginally different this season) no one would bat an eyelid and laugh these proposals out. 

Do I think Dundee, Hibernian or United's investors will be here in a decade? No. Do I think they'll be in a better place after they leave? A very big maybe, and aside from Dundee, I'd say quite probably no.

Will Hearts be running the same model? Yes. Will St. Mirren? Probably. 

It's very easy to look on enviously at other people's spending and nonsense, I get that, but it's not for me. 

Firstly true love involves self sacrifice. The self sacrifice of both time and in some cases money for the love of their club from Jim Mc, Derek Weir, Jay, Derek Watson etc should be hugely applauded.

Secondly our motto for now should be sinn fein (we ourselves) and only once we have exhausted what we ourselves can do should we consider ceding ownership of the club we love to those who are only seeking a return for themselves 

[eliphas]

I'd rejoin Twitter/x if we dropped the current motto and changed it to that. Haha. Imagine.