Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

Nae problem wi' ra pitch for th' morra.

[Wellmental21]

6 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

The Society has never previously been required to cover significant costs on a regular basis though. There is no reason to think that now when asked to raise more money, on an ongoing basis or as reserve, they can't - certainly to some extent.

The 'worst case' scenario to leave us with a 750k deficit over a season hasn't happened yet and while it's fair to acknowledge it might, it should be said that it's far from fatal over a season should it happen. And for it to happen over the three-year ish window for us to fall into real bother, it would take the total collapse not only of our sporting performance but also the youth system, scouting etc. Possible yes, likely no.

As for the investment, how much off the park investment would generate the sort of return of interest to an external person? Considering the main aim is first to spend that on the team, I think it's highly unlikely it would produce a worthy ROI. And if we instead chose to raise finance ourselves - through fundraising, loans etc, - we can do it much more securely.

As for returns on player sales, that's theoretically possible but in practice... we use these sales to cover millions of expenses over a three-year cycle. The chance of regularly returning enough profit on that to justify the investment is slim. Remember we tried that under Dempster and failed, tried that under Alexander and it failed, Hibs for example just spent 700k on a guy who has half of Bair's goals. It's a notoriously hard thing to do.

If the American wants to buy 20% or whatever and develop our media presence great, same if the local heroes from East Kilbride want to fund some players. Do it at their own risk knowing it is an incredibly risky investment in terms of making an actual return. If they want to do this to boast at the Country Club or get in the local papers and boost their business presence, fantastic. That's up to them but given all of us who have followed Motherwell/Scottish football have seen what happens elsewhere to investment, giving them the keys, ability to extract money from the club etc is a huge risk our current situation simply doesn't justify atm.

I think to be fair you prob have a better understanding of the society coffers and ability to fund than I prob do. I’m just sitting on the fence of doom when it comes to the future. Ultimately I want my club to be here for my grandkids to enjoy the way I have

whatever way that is at the moment in terms of private/society or just society I honestly don’t know.

i know my preference would be for the society to remain 100% owners but since the unstable world we live in since covid I fear we might struggle to keep up with purely operating in our league never mind competing if we don’t maintain a strong gate, cup run and player turnover

that said no investment I guess guarantees that. However we fund it I think the structure and appointments within the board/society board and positions of authority within the club will be key to improving things going forward 

the new energy that’s come from the new appointments in the society are pleasing tho and I hope that can lead to a stronger comms/increased revenue for the society going forward

 

[thisGRAEME]

1 minute ago, Wellmental21 said:

Ultimately I want my club to be here for my grandkids to enjoy the way I have

Can we stop with the idea that Motherwell will cease to exist?

In an absolute worst case scenario, a catastrophic set of events on and off the field, the worst we will be is a bad Championship side. 

[Wellmental21]

3 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Can we stop with the idea that Motherwell will cease to exist?

In an absolute worst case scenario, a catastrophic set of events on and off the field, the worst we will be is a bad Championship side. 

Ok didn’t mean to sound dramatic or for it to be taken so dramatically. Put better I wish for the most solid financially stable and competitive Motherwell side I could wish for for my grandkids.

 

better?

[welldaft]

Thanks @JayMFC for a great summary once again. It is really good to read that the Well Society is continuing to evolve and address a lot of the shortcomings that were in place.  Which undoubtedly undermined efforts to attract new members and old members who have stopped contributing on a regular basis. 

Now we apparently know who the potential investor is I am no more or less inclined to think favourably about any potential deal. I would say that without spending the day googling his net worth a former VP of Netflix is unlikely to have as deep pockets as Les Hutchison or even John Boyle.

I maybe wrong but for me to agree to any outside investment that investment must be ringfenced and or protected. Let’s say I was worth £15m and I promised £500k PA over the next decade in return for 51% or similar. Then in 4 years time I was declared bankrupt because of my love for fast cars and malt whisky .  Unless the individual concerned can prove he has the funds and is 99% unlikely or unable to renege then we will see.  On such a basis I would ask for the money up front. Say £5m whatever deposited and used as and when required like the Well Society buffer. That would have me more likely say yes than the promise of £3-500k PA over a longer term. 

[StAndrew7]

1 hour ago, Cedrics Mighty Well Army said:

Nae problem wi' ra pitch for th' morra.

Get the yellow baw out and it'll be fine.

[Neil86]

This guys plan is to basically do a Wrexham isn't it. Fire out a fly on the wall Netflix Documentary and hope it takes off in the same fashion.

Every report i've read refers to it as a Scottish Wrexham.

Does anyone have the slightest idea how much this guy is worth?

[santheman]

It'll be interesting to see what this guy's motive is behind the bid. As far as I can see he doesn't seem to have any major sporting interest?

Maybe he sees some profit in the media angle or maybe he just wants somewhere to take his Hollywood pals for a pint and take in a game when they visit Scotland.

I look forward to seeing Orlando Bloom buying a round in the Cooper bar.

Edited April 5 by santheman

[dezz]

16 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

 

Does anyone have the slightest idea how much this guy is worth?

Working for a North American company, every man and their dug is a Vice President of something over there. Hopefully being a VP at Netflix holds a bit more weight than being VP at Goldman Sachs for example …..

[Vietnam91]

3 hours ago, Wellmental21 said:

I certainly don’t think cup runs/player sales and top 6 finishes can be certified as a given. However for the basic run costs of the club, the society have yet to my knowledge shown an ability to cover these in their entirety. Any of the above should be seen as a bonus and reinvested across the club in my view.

The WS wasn't set up to do that though, it is something that has evolved and is now expected by too many. The WS was a vehicle to allow John Boyle under advice of his family to walk, it was the only option available with in theory a good PR exit and memories fresh in the mind of what happened with the Italians at Dundee. It was explained to us as a reserve the club would turn to in times of need and replenish when the sun was shining. Why none of the Turnbull money was used to eat into the £900k still currently owed to the WS on the club books is another discussion.

The WS has experienced peaks in troughs, at inception and when Les signalled he wanted out. Membership numbers money came in like a Blue Peter appeal totaliser at times. The years between marked by a plateauing or stagnation rather than progressive growth. Marked by many society board members being re-elected unopposed during these periods. As to why it was succinctly put by @Swello, sadly that attitude probably permeated down the the larger supporter base too.

On 03/04/2024 at 21:58, Swello said:

*If I was being completely un-charitable, I would say that the executive board have paid lip service to fan ownership and have run the club (whether for good or bad) on completely their own terms as if the WS were an inconvenience or an afterthought.

So now McMahon has his exit planned which coincides with the WS starting to find its voice fuelled by fresh recruitment. The WS have no track record because the club pretty much bumbled along with yo-yo'ing from top 6 to bottom so the accounts never got out of hand for too long so no dynamism required nor offered. So the video was launched as a call to action, issue is you get all sorts motivated by it and vetting has to take place.

It's just a head scratcher for me the "easy" option of finding one person or entity to safeguard the club by getting them to come to us opposed to adding to the more sustainable (yet more time and effort heavy) means of growing the commercial revenues by engaging better with the people and business' of the local area, we now find the fan ownership model in jeopardy.

3 hours ago, Wellmental21 said:

ultimately if an investor is seeing a return of their investment through a strong commercial strategic delivery or player sales for example then it means that the club is ultimately in a stronger position than it is now as it can afford to return and pay those dividends whilst competing on the park

It is less than 3 years ago we signed two players in Slattery and Kelly on 3 year deals at the top end of our pay scale, over the course of their contracts we can't be far away from paying £1m combined in salaries. They were brought to realise what you've outlined here. The optimum time for them to be sold was last summer as 24 and 27 year olds about to enter the footballing prime. However, the reality we will receive zero return (beyond their on field contributions) which no doubt was originally pitched as the exact opposite.

Edited April 5 by Vietnam91

[Neil86]

4 minutes ago, dezz said:

Working for a North American company, every man and their dug is a Vice President of something over there. Hopefully being a VP at Netflix holds a bit more weight than being VP at Goldman Sachs for example …..

some googling flung up this;

• Netflix pays its employees 25% to 50% more than competitors, with entry-level coordinators making six figures and vice presidents earning a minimum of $1 million, sources told the Hollywood Reporter.

also a mention of 5% stock included as well, Netlfix is worth 272 billion, so no idea what equates too.

 

[Busta Nut]

Isn't Netflix $14b in debt?

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Neil86 said:

This guys plan is to basically do a Wrexham isn't it. Fire out a fly on the wall Netflix Documentary and hope it takes off in the same fashion.

Every report i've read refers to it as a Scottish Wrexham.

Does anyone have the slightest idea how much this guy is worth?

I doubt it. The Wrexham thing is just a pretty obvious link for clicks. See also the Record calling him a 'mogul' he was an employee of two admittedly very large companies (and very successful with it by all accounts).

It's worth mentioning that Weir was quite open at the AGM in saying that the deal on offer wasn't 'transformational'.

If you actually look at the content his production company puts out it's generally originals from non-US territories LatAm, Scandinavia, India. His focus seems to have been developing international content and placing them with streamers eg: Amazon, Netflix.

The question remains as to what he'd actually be getting out of it but I very much doubt it has anything to do with a documentary. I mean, for a start he wouldn't need to purchase a stake in the club to do that - the folk that made Sunderland Til I Die weren't obligated to buy into that particular shitshow.

They just made the series.

1 hour ago, santheman said:

It'll be interesting to see what this guy's motive is behind the bid. As far as I can see he doesn't seem to have any major sporting interest?

Maybe he sees some profit in the media angle or maybe he just wants somewhere to take his Hollywood pals for a pint and take in a game when they visit Scotland.

I look forward to seeing Orlando Bloom buying a round in the Cooper bar.

I clocked your post on Steelmen just there but seeing as I don't post there I thought I'd chip in here.

1 hour ago, santheman said:

Aye it will be interesting to find out what his motives behind the offer are.

Doesn't appear to have any sporting interests in his past that you can find online so maybe you're on the right track with a media angle.

Would like a swatch at the contacts on his phone, Hollywood's elite no doubt.

He was Senior Director at ESPN in Business Development for 6 years so there's your sports angle.

Again, as @Handsome_Devil mentioned when the name first appeared on the thread, and this is possibly what you were getting at, there's no history of him having been involved in an actual sports team before. Which tbh, I take as a good thing - his background is almost entirely business development rather than seemingly wanting to own a football club.

I don't know if you're being facetious about the contacts book thing but he wrote a book, published by Simon and Schuster in 2006 called Why Fantasy Football Matters: (And Our Lives Do Not). What's interesting about that is that it was co-written with Max Handelman - who is Max Handelman you might ask? As well as being a sports writer he's also Elizabeth Banks' husband and partner in Brownstone Productions who produced the Pitch Perfect series, the Charlie's Angels Kristen Stewart re-boot, Cocaine Bear and Bottoms amongst others.

Long and the short of it their estimated net worth according to the internet is $50m. I mean, it's not them who are investing but taking things at face value Barmack seems to be an actual, real person rather than a Walter Mitty type of the Craig Whyte 'wealth off the radar' school.

I guess one of the criticisms of the board/club over the past while is that it's been populated mainly by...erm, old men whose business experience is on the traditional side. I'll admit that I'd be quite curious to see what inserting someone who has held senior positions at companies such as ESPN and Netflix might bring to the club in terms of approach to infrastructure etc especially since his business is literally doing deals on an international platform.

Again, you have to ask the question what he'd actually be getting out of it though.

35 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Isn't Netflix $14b in debt?

Probably aye.

Edited April 5 by capt_oats

[Neil86]

2 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Isn't Netflix $14b in debt?

Nae idea, good job he doesn't work there if they are though.

Got his own company now called Wild sheep content.

he appears to have been been a co founder in a company that developed fantasy football style games for major media companies, which i suppose could be very profitable in the US as well.

[Neil86]

4 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

What's interesting about that is that it was co-written with Max Handleman

I wonder if that is who he co-founded the company for fantasy football games with?

@capt_oats the more i'd read into him the more I leaned away from the documentary idea.

[Swello]

3 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

He was Senior Director at ESPN in Business Development for 6 years so there's your sports angle

Derek Rae probably fired on the playoff 2nd leg in a meeting. Seeing Lee McCulloch getting a flag pole in his een piqued his interest, by the time he got to "Twisting...Shouting" he was doing his sums and when he saw *all* the fighting, he was up for buying us.

[santheman]

Thanks for that info Busta.

Can see where the interest in football comes from now and makes a bit more sense of his motives.

 

[capt_oats]

14 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Isn't Netflix $14b in debt?

There you go.

$14.54B

https://companiesmarketcap.com/netflix/total-debt/#:~:text=Total debt on the balance,current and non-current debts.

[Busta Nut]

Surely he was thoughtful while splashing the netflix cash. 

[capt_oats]

11 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

I wonder if that is who he co-founded the company for fantasy football games with?

@capt_oats the more i'd read into him the more I leaned away from the documentary idea.

I suppose for balance it's worth pointing out he was at Netflix when they did the Juventus series in 2018.

He's quoted about it in the article below:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/juventus/news/netflix-set-to-launch-juventus-documentary-series-in-2018/1abhdnfbb4c3l1u4w3sv7ir5xm