Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[welldaft]

Well I have just read the headline on news now that Ketts wants to keep Kelly and is not surprised there is interest in him……

He is on £4k apparently. Down from the £6k he was on at QPR. Still a decent wedge for us. 

I assume we have offered £2k per week to stay possibly a little more. 

Like most of us I think his time is done. Time to start afresh although a few on here inc well fan for life is clearly making me think the alternative is possibly even worse. I hope whomever it is so many are sceptical about is coming here as back up. If we genuinely get a downgrade on Kelly……I mean….not a good start to the transfer window….nope.

Edited May 9 by welldaft

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

4 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Like most of us I think his time is done. Time to start afresh although a few on here inc well fan for life is clearly making me think the alternative is possibly even worse. I hope whomever it is so many are sceptical about is coming here as back up. If we genuinely get a downgrade on Kelly……I mean….not a good start to the transfer window….nope.

I don't mind our goalkeeper being right at the top of the payscale. Our last two genuine relegation scraps have saw us with Samson and Twardzik in goals for most of the season and it's almost like you can find a common denominator. 

I'm not denying that Kelly has had a very poor season, but his criticism is probably heightened by his alleged wage. People probably expect a better return on investment. Were we not supposedly paying him so much, I think people would pass off more of his errors as par for the course.

I do agree it's the right time for both parties to go their separate ways, but like you say I don't think replacing him will be as easy as some make out. A likely scenario for me is we get a slightly worse 'keeper on a significantly smaller wage. Time will tell if the money saved will be worth it.

Joe Lewis is the name everyone is sceptical about.

[well fan for life]

Joe Lewis has been fantastic for Motherwell over the years so I'll assume he'll keep up that form.

[MurrayWell]

Adam Montgomery really must have impressed in that Alloa game, he's just been given a new Celtic deal. 

Wonder if it's on the cards for him to be back to actually have loan stint next season, would prefer we got a new permanent left back if we can't get Gent but Ketts obviously liked Montgomery enough to bring him in. 

[capt_oats]

46 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I don't mind our goalkeeper being right at the top of the payscale. Our last two genuine relegation scraps have saw us with Samson and Twardzik in goals for most of the season and it's almost like you can find a common denominator. 

I'm not denying that Kelly has had a very poor season, but his criticism is probably heightened by his alleged wage. People probably expect a better return on investment. Were we not supposedly paying him so much, I think people would pass off more of his errors as par for the course.

I do agree it's the right time for both parties to go their separate ways, but like you say I don't think replacing him will be as easy as some make out. A likely scenario for me is we get a slightly worse 'keeper on a significantly smaller wage. Time will tell if the money saved will be worth it.

Joe Lewis is the name everyone is sceptical about.

There's a chance that the money thing plays a part but for me I think part of the problem has been the platforming.

I totally get it's part of the sales pitch that brought him here and when it comes down to it I'd much rather we sucked up the cost and got him in ahead of United (who were supposed to have been the favourites to get him that summer - if they get Kelly do they sign Birighitti and end up relegated etc) but it's hard not to bump against things when the club is gaslighting the support with "Scotland's future #1" posts while he's chucking them in on a semi-regular basis not to mention the section of the support who actively seemed to buy into it.

You also have the fact that we clearly paid a fee for him so you have that other section who will class him a failure because we didn't sell him for £1m.

Fact is that between his loan and permanent he's kept us up when Robinson bailed, had a season where we qualified for Europe and had two wildly inconsistent seasons. Whether he's been value for money is really a matter of personal opinion but he's not been a failure by any means - certainly not in the way your Twardzik or Samson types were.

Edited May 9 by capt_oats

['WellDel]

15 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

Adam Montgomery really must have impressed in that Alloa game, he's just been given a new Celtic deal. 

Wonder if it's on the cards for him to be back to actually have loan stint next season, would prefer we got a new permanent left back if we can't get Gent but Ketts obviously liked Montgomery enough to bring him in. 

Or possibly another cheap-ish option to keep around for the homegrown quota that's been discussed?

Wouldn't be averse to having him back again if he could stay fit for 5 mins as he obviously has potential. (as I can't see us landing Gent again, sadly).

[Stevie Kirk]

21 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

We gave Lamie an extension based on a header at Almondvale, that turned out great.

On the subject of Lamie he was at the POTY night though he sat with his missus and not the players. I thought that was a nice touch - he could easily have sacked it off considering he only played the once for us last season.

[Stevie Kirk]

5 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Frail said pretty much same in terms of wanting a more settled pre-season when he spoke to the press last week. 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/motherwell-aim-squad-shape-early-32705681

In fairness the punting players was on instruction.

He'd been told to bring the spend down in line with a level the board were more comfortable with so it was a case of finding takers for as many as we could and generally re-appraising our approach. That was before we even hit the one-in-one-out stage.

From memory Weir said at the AGM that the difference between where we were and where the board wanted things to be was something like the equivalent losing 6 players. Which explains us binning the Reserves and just choosing to run with u18s and bounce games over the sort of wastage we'd been used to through the Robinson, Alexander and Hammell eras.

I mean, when you look at the sheer level of movement we've seen between last summer and now it's absolutely nuts and tbh it's credit to Kettlewell in terms of him actually having done a good job (shoutout @thisGRAEME's chat on the Monday/Tuesday pod - another rare treat IMO).

In terms of numbers since the end of last season (I've only included each player once as there are some overlaps eg: Mahon and Campbell were both loaned out and released, Oli Shaw was famously returned then sent back to us and Ewan Wilson has been loaned out twice):

Departed/loans expired/released: 18
Out: 11
Loan (Out)/recalled: 12

Like I say, nuts...

‘Completely forgot about Buyabu - did anyone ever get to the bottom of why he was suddenly fired south again? 

[Busta Nut]

Allegedly harbouring a missing underage girl from London in his Hamilton flat 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

The turnover of players, even within seasons is astounding these days. Are we particularly bad for is it just symptomatic of the league as a whole now? 

There are only five players (Kelly, SOD, Mugabi, Maguire and Slattery) at the club just now who played a league game under Alexander.

[Stevie Kirk]

39 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Allegedly harbouring a missing underage girl from London in his Hamilton flat 

Jesus wept

[eliphas]

49 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Allegedly harbouring a missing underage girl from London in his Hamilton flat 

That'll do it. Haha.

[Busta Nut]

It was on here not too long after I am sure

[stephmc1886]

I was in a shop in Hamilton roughly around the time he was allegedly slung off the team bus, he was looking for  phone because his battery was flat. Still had the MFC tracky on but he wasn,t saying very much, all makes a bit of sense now!!

[Vietnam91]

4 hours ago, capt_oats said:

There's a chance that the money thing plays a part but for me I think part of the problem has been the platforming.

I totally get it's part of the sales pitch that brought him here and when it comes down to it I'd much rather we sucked up the cost and got him in ahead of United (who were supposed to have been the favourites to get him that summer - if they get Kelly do they sign Birighitti and end up relegated etc) but it's hard not to bump against things when the club is gaslighting the support with "Scotland's future #1" posts while he's chucking them in on a semi-regular basis not to mention the section of the support who actively seemed to buy into it.

You also have the fact that we clearly paid a fee for him so you have that other section who will class him a failure because we didn't sell him for £1m.

Fact is that between his loan and permanent he's kept us up when Robinson bailed, had a season where we qualified for Europe and had two wildly inconsistent seasons. Whether he's been value for money is really a matter of personal opinion but he's not been a failure by any means - certainly not in the way your Twardzik or Samson types were.

With our 'breakeven is a good season' set up paying for a player on a three year deal (on £4k?) and not moving him on has to be seen as a bit of a failure. If you're a selling club and you buy players and then don't sell them, it affects that model. The length of contract and terms suggest that a projected sell on was probably used to relinquish the funds to make it possible. Add in he gained a Scotland call up with us and at 28 is entering his peak playing age. Without the Turnbull cash in the bank it is a move that just wouldn't have happened.

Safe to say Alexander's brand of football and Hammell's ..... don't know what you'd call it ..... did nothing to help put him on radar and earn a move. Probably because it feels like serviceable keepers are 10 a penny in the English lower leagues with no fees attached.

While not the worst keeper we've had, on occasion his shot stopping and reaction saves has been top tier over the balance he's not in the upper echelon of keepers we've had or importantly what I'd hope we'd unearth this summer. While a lot of the criticism this season I think has to be shared with the defence in front of him it feels like an inevitable death spiral of them not being confident in him and him not confident in them. A bit too much finger pointing and not enough mea culpa from all parties.

For me it's a "£600k in wages eh Liam? Fair fucks! All the best".

 

Edited May 9 by Vietnam91

[welldaft]

16 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I don't mind our goalkeeper being right at the top of the payscale. Our last two genuine relegation scraps have saw us with Samson and Twardzik in goals for most of the season and it's almost like you can find a common denominator. 

I'm not denying that Kelly has had a very poor season, but his criticism is probably heightened by his alleged wage. People probably expect a better return on investment. Were we not supposedly paying him so much, I think people would pass off more of his errors as par for the course.

I do agree it's the right time for both parties to go their separate ways, but like you say I don't think replacing him will be as easy as some make out. A likely scenario for me is we get a slightly worse 'keeper on a significantly smaller wage. Time will tell if the money saved will be worth it.

Joe Lewis is the name everyone is sceptical about.

I agree in that he should be one of our better paid players as it is such an important position to fill and hopefully get right.

As for Joe Lewis. I am hoping that the comments Ketts made re keeping Kelly means that he has not committed to a No1 GK. Unless it is all smoke and mirrors and he is telling wee fibs, we would hardly agree to a contract with a potential No1 keeper not knowing if the current incumbent is actually on his way out.

That provides me with some comfort. I mean we may have said we will take you if Kelly leaves but again hoping that particular rumour is just that and no more .

[MurrayWell]

I'd expect (and hope) we're trying to go down the Ruddy/Randolph/Gillespie route for our next first choice keeper.

Kelly is likely away, Oxborough is as well leaving. I mind there being a good bit of chat that he was being trained up to ultimately be Kelly's replacement, but given how little he's featured, particularly when Kelly stopped using his hands, it's probably not a project that's worked out.

If we're looking to bring in two keepers, one in the Ruddy/Randolph/Gillespie mould and another as back-up, I have absolutely no issue with that back-up being Joe Lewis. He's far from a world-beater but is experienced at this level and probably gives a bit of a safety net of your back-up not being a total rookie if whoever else we bring in takes a while to settle. It's highly unlikely we're going to get an experienced back-up of a higher standard than Lewis, if he was signed as number one, that's a whole different story. 

[welldaft]

Joe Lewis is only 36 yet he has started only 3 games in the last two seasons. 3 with Aberdeen in the 22-23 season. 

So you would like to think it is as back up. But then again at 36 a GK is hardly over the hill.

Perhaps if he has so few options, back up at Motherwell and fighting for No1 position is an option he would seriously consider. 

[Handsome_Devil]

12 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Unless it is all smoke and mirrors and he is telling wee fibs, we would hardly agree to a contract with a potential No1 keeper not knowing if the current incumbent is actually on his way out.

That provides me with some comfort. I mean we may have said we will take you if Kelly leaves but again hoping that particular rumour is just that and no more .

Folk in football tell wee fibs and lie by omission constantly when talking to the media - which is fair enough, because they're dealing with real people, decisions get made in advance, you need to maintain civil relationships within the club, appear professional for the future etc.

Spittal, for example, had a couple of weeks banging in worldies, which was obviously time-limited, and duly returned to being solid enough. Had his move to Hearts been agreed but kept quiet, it would have been noticed with a nod and nothing more. Instead the move leaked and entirely predictable return normal is greeted with accusations he's not trying.

Kelly is our captain, whatever you think of his form, and as such no manager will ever say mid-season he's off and we're not bothered about it.

[welldaft]

32 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Folk in football tell wee fibs and lie by omission constantly when talking to the media - which is fair enough, because they're dealing with real people, decisions get made in advance, you need to maintain civil relationships within the club, appear professional for the future etc.

Spittal, for example, had a couple of weeks banging in worldies, which was obviously time-limited, and duly returned to being solid enough. Had his move to Hearts been agreed but kept quiet, it would have been noticed with a nod and nothing more. Instead the move leaked and entirely predictable return normal is greeted with accusations he's not trying.

Kelly is our captain, whatever you think of his form, and as such no manager will ever say mid-season he's off and we're not bothered about it.

Without being glib you are not really telling me something I don’t know….

However the reality is Kettlewell stated clearly that he has not spoken to Kelly about this, is unaware of any other clubs interest in him and is hoping to keep him. 

He could just as easily say - we are aware of interest in Liam and that does not surprise me. We still hope to keep him but finance will be a factor etc. I mean I really see little point in our Manager telling porkies over a GK most of us would be happy to see move on. Also for all his lengthy chats Ketts gives me the impression he tends to tell it as it is. 

Kelly is moving on I think that is a given. I just hope if it is Joe Lewis then he is here as experienced back up to another No1.