Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Doctor Manhattan]

56 minutes ago, Erik Barmack said:

Props to THE WATCHMEN.

You'll be familiar with this line, then? 

That said, if there's a common ground to be reached that stops short of anyone being torn apart cell by cell then I look forward to seeing it in due course, because I don't think we're quite there yet.

 

[Handsome_Devil]

21 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Surely not that much to take it from a shyster?

Not at all, in fact.

I suspect the answer is as prosaic as the old boys retiring can't/won't accept their time is up and hand over gracefully to the next generation. For whatever reason that might be.

Our financials are publicly available, as are the media distribution and prize money we can bank on, plus we can be pretty confident about season tickets etc.

The gap between the variable income (performance and transfers) and definite expenses needed to be competitive has certainly edged higher than we'd like, so sure, we should be active in trying to increase our own guaranteed revenue streams. That keeps our three-year planning on an even keel.

But it's there on the accounts, for the better part of a decade, that have been well run and now need minor readjustment rather than a total leap in the dark.

If you're claiming that we desperately need investment to the extent of handing over the club for 300k, you are:

1) pushing a false narrative to pursue a sale;

2) unable to understand the finances; or

3) a moon-howler who thinks there's a "next level" we can reach.

Edited June 10 by Handsome_Devil

[Doctor Manhattan]

12 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Finally, props to @capt_oats who is determined to drag the discussion away from this guy and bring it back to this striker you're linked with. Some commitment to the bit! 

He'd have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for these meddling bids.

[Busta Nut]

You know what?

I am fucking sick of this investment chat. 

Let's just get it over with.

[Vietnam91]

There's a few other questions that some may wish to consider:

1./ Why is writing off £434k of the WS loan preferable to overpaying £434k of the Scot Gov COVID loan? The latter at least has to be paid on any schedule and both also aren't "clean" on the balance sheet. In 6 years time the club would essentially owe the same as it does under the current offer. Unless there is motive to writing off the former.

2./ What would happen if the club wasn't fan owned with a subscription model? Let's say Accies are the target rather than us. No ready made portion of fans contributing monthly, so no additional revenue stream to divert to near enough match Barmack funding/investment. What happens there or are we the target precisely because of the existing WS £150k a year subs that can be tapped?

3./ A season ticket holder in the Hunter pays £400 a year. A WS member paying £10 a month sitting beside them with also with a ST cumulatively contributes £520 a year. With all revenue going to the club bank opposed to the £120 to the WS fund, the WS member is effectively paying a 30% levy on top of the person sitting beside them.

4./ Our over-performing (relative to income) seasons have been defined by 3 things, very good transfer windows, squad cohesion/lack of injuries/degree of depth and finally, good coaching. We achieved our 2nd and 3rd's when outspent by 6-8 of the league at the very least.

5./ Increased SPFL Premier Sports 20 game package revenue and increased UEFA solidarity payments will go a long way to plugging the gap £750k perfect storm season shortfall. That's before you add in development compo for Max and Dean £450k ish, Kelly's Scotland money £120k ish, Theo Bair £800k and up ish, new CEO and improved season ticket sales on summer 2023. (KVV money will also show in this years accounts including his promotion bonus).

Edited June 10 by Vietnam91

[Handsome_Devil]

2 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

3./ A season ticket holder in the Hunter pays £400 a year. A WS member paying £10 a month sitting beside them with also with a ST cumulatively contributes £520 a year. With all revenue going to the club bank opposed to the £120 to the WS fund, the WS member is effectively paying a 30% levy on top of the person sitting beside them.

If the deal goes through, I suspect that injustice isn't something you'll need to worry about...

[Lukovic]

Honestly, I have the fear that people are going to vote for this because they've bought into the narrative that we're on death's door.

[Vietnam91]

7 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

If the deal goes through, I suspect that injustice isn't something you'll need to worry about...

Undoubtedly, however it highlights the stupidity of the offer and assumption that not only with every WS member currently contributing continue and in many cases increase, it also needs many to start doing so to meet the £200k target.

[wellboy1991]

Back to the Fitba chat.

We are being linked on a few Twitter posts to a Serbian forward, Filip Stuparevic from FC Domzale. Same side that Aberdeen side Ester Sokler from. 

[Busta Nut]

If this deal goes through the well society dies. People stop contributing. They can't make their end of the deal.

Then what?

The club defaults to the American stranger?

[Busta Nut]

1 minute ago, wellboy1991 said:

Back to the Fitba chat.

We are being linked on a few Twitter posts to a Serbian forward, Filip Stuparevic from FC Domzale. Same side that Aberdeen side Ester Sokler from. 

It's been mentioned in amongst this. How we managed to do the daily stuff when no one knows what's going on, I dunno?

[Fife Saint]

Has anyone seen the terms of the covid loan? Can you repay other loans before that?

['WellDel]

I've just stuck my Euromillions on. When that stoats tomorrow I'll stick in £3 million free gratis, no strings then we can put this farcical shite behind us and concentrate on discussing the possible signing of mercurial Serbian strikers.

[Erik Barmack]

Just now, Lukovic said:

Honestly, I have the fear that people are going to vote for this because they've bought into the narrative that we're on death's door.

I wanted to respond to this, which touch's on @Vietnam91's post, too, and then I'm going to take a break for the good of this board (there's a new player to discuss) as well as my own fine desire for some fresh air:

(1) I personally don't see the Club as being in financial peril.  It's been well run and has punched above its weight compared to teams with bigger budgets.  I do not think, nor would I want others to think, that we're approaching this from the negative perspective of having to "save" MFC.

(2) On one debt versus another -- we tried our best to find trade-offs that are based on our understanding of valuation in the market, and a 50+1 model.  That was the spirit of it all.  And we do believe that the Club collectively is underfunded -- so how you pay/build is really the question in a model of split ownership.

(3) More than the capital and valuation, for this deal to make sense, we collectively need to believe that the Club can grow.  Areas in which I believe growth can occur are:

     a) Through enhanced media -- a docu-series is an example (and it's a viable one) to help grow a brand, bring in some revenue, and increase commercial opportunities for the Club;

     b) Through growing TWS -- I believe I mentioned the Caledonian Braves as an example, which has raised over $1m in less than a year as a fifth divison club in Scotland (who, coincidentally play nearby).  That may not be sustainable, but the key here is that the majority of that revenue is coming from outside of Scotland, and I believe that TWS should be grown internationally.

   c) Through better CRM -- how does the Club better email users for opportunities?  How can former season ticket holders be tracked with different opportunities?  How can sales of particular products be more fluid?  There are many platforms that aren't expensive but which have profound impacts on subscription and e-commerce businesses.

   d) Through strategic partnerships -- getting celebrities, related  public figures and football experts in different markets, including the States, involved in Motherwell could improve the profile and commercial opportunities of the Club.

   e) Through better communication -- message boards, Zoom chats, and available emailing ... these are things that, when integrated with the above, could make the Club faster and stronger, with ideas coming from TWS members and other stakeholders at a much higher clip.

Some of these things cost money to do well upfront, and I bring all of this up because the capital going into the Club would allow the Club to work on these things, and while we can have lots of differences of opinion on deal structure, it's all pretty irrelevant unless you believe that the Club can grow revenue.  If the Club can grow revenue from the above (and of course dozens of other ideas), the exact mechanics can be refined and improved.  That's my thinking, at least -- I'll be back on a bit should y'all want to keep chatting.

E

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Mind "Taylor, gies some dosh!"?

[camer0n_mcd]

How can anyone genuinely believe we have "nothing to lose", even the guy trying to buy the club has said we've every right to be cautious.

In which way does it protect fan ownership? The proposal would see the 'well society would be becoming the 2nd largest shareholders.

 

I genuinely despair with some of our fans.

Edited June 10 by camer0n_mcd

['WellDel]

1 minute ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Mind "Taylor, gies some dosh!"?

She was in the country all weekend. I'm assuming she never nipped by the Chapman to hand a cheque in before she left? Cow.

 

[camer0n_mcd]

2 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Mind "Taylor, gies some dosh!"?

Thanks for reminding me of that, as if my day hadn't been bad enough 

[Busta Nut]

1 minute ago, camer0n_mcd said:

How can anyone genuinely believe we have "nothing to lose", even the guy trying to buy the club has said we've every right to be cautious.

In which way does it protect fan ownership? The proposal would see the 'well society would be becoming the 2nd largest shareholders.

 

I genuinely despair with some of our fans.

This is why I have the fear.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, camer0n_mcd said:

How can anyone genuinely believe we have "nothing to lose", even the guy trying to buy the club has said we've every right to be cautious.

In which way does it protect fan ownership? The proposal would see the 'well society would be becoming the 2nd largest shareholders.

 

I genuinely despair with some of our fans.

There's a remarkable amount of your fans on multiple social media platforms refusing to read anything and just assuming you're doomed unless you accept this deal.

This is your Brexit moment. Where most of you just assume nobody will be daft enough to vote it in, and you're wrong and fucked.