Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

 I know it was the summer of Sevco and there was a lot of financial uncertainty and we were never likely to make a tilt at the group stages either way etc but why the f**k did we go into our maiden Champions League campaign signing Simon Ramsden and nobody else?

[boozyBJ]

2 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Didn't make it to Athens but I was in Zante about a month later and my mum was worried that there'd be local Panithanaikos ultras kicking off if I wore a Motherwell kit.

The same happened to me when I wore my Argentina top in Blackpool in ‘86

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

3 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

 I know it was the summer of Sevco and there was a lot of financial uncertainty and we were never likely to make a tilt at the group stages either way etc but why the f**k did we go into our maiden Champions League campaign signing Simon Ramsden and nobody else?

I think we were skint, basically. We lost Craigan and Clancy and replaced them with Kerr and Ramsden. 

Jennings (and Forbes who was on the fringes by then) went from midfield and we didn't bring anyone in. Jennings was a class act for us, but in some ways that one worked out as we moved Law to the centre and had room for one more attacking player on the left and we were class to watch that season.

[KirkySuperSub]

7 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I was born in 1990 and I always feel a bit aggrieved that I missed out on the cup win in 91 and then the great teams we had in 93/94 and 94/95. However, looking back compared to what has happened since, I should probably count myself fortunate that in my years of being a young adult, we were qualifying for Europe so regularly. We qualified for Europe 6 times in 7 seasons when I was between the ages of 18 and 24. I bet the generation down would love to have these stories to tell about European trips, not to mention having been able to watch the players that got us to them.

I was born 1974, so that era you mention was basically my heyday watching us...best days tbh, 91, then the early to mid-90's...some team and some players...!

I've said on here a few times, but I've completely disappeared the last 10 years or so, only been to a handful of games in that time...

I never once saw us play IN Europe, albeit I've saw us play European games at Fir Park...

So who's had the best 'Well experience...?

It honestly doesn't matter...we've all got stories to tell...

I'm sitting here reading these stories thinking that I've missed out on so much by not experiencing these European trips...

But would I swap known fond memories for unknown new experiences, hard to tell...

[YassinMoutaouakil]

9 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I think we were skint, basically. We lost Craigan and Clancy and replaced them with Kerr and Ramsden. 

Jennings (and Forbes who was on the fringes by then) went from midfield and we didn't bring anyone in. Jennings was a class act for us, but in some ways that one worked out as we moved Law to the centre and had room for one more attacking player on the left and we were class to watch that season.

Aye in fairness it was also one of the rare off-seasons where we actually had the guts of a good team and didn't have to replace 5 or 6 of them.

[hk blues]

9 hours ago, boozyBJ said:

I can see myself in that photo lol. Was on holiday in Spain with, now ex, wife and our two young kids. Hired car and booked hotel, drove through to Valencia, dumped family at hotel and went to game. Was looking forward to having a beer at the stadium, but when got there it was non alcoholic lager sold at stadium. Gutted

Aye.

(Only joking mate, couldn't resist that open goal).

[Swello]

8 hours ago, KirkySuperSub said:

I was born 1974, so that era you mention was basically my heyday watching us...best days tbh, 91, then the early to mid-90's...some team and some players...!

I've said on here a few times, but I've completely disappeared the last 10 years or so, only been to a handful of games in that time...

I never once saw us play IN Europe, albeit I've saw us play European games at Fir Park...

So who's had the best 'Well experience...?

It honestly doesn't matter...we've all got stories to tell...

I'm sitting here reading these stories thinking that I've missed out on so much by not experiencing these European trips...

But would I swap known fond memories for unknown new experiences, hard to tell...

I think if you were watching 'Well between 1989 AC (Anno Cooper) up until the end of McCall's time, then you've arguably seen 4 of our best ever teams, a cup win, 3 runners-up in the league (with some 3rd places added in) and multiple euro qualifications with us playing in the CWC, UC, EL and CL in Europe. And Dougie Arnott.

In short, you'd be a spoilt bastart.

[Cloontang]

24 minutes ago, Swello said:

I think if you were watching 'Well between 1989 AC (Anno Cooper) up until the end of McCall's time, then you've arguably seen 4 of our best ever teams, a cup win, 3 runners-up in the league (with some 3rd places added in) and multiple euro qualifications with us playing in the CWC, UC, EL and CL in Europe. And Dougie Arnott.

In short, you'd be a spoilt bastart.

1989/90 was the year I started going to games and what a time it was to start, I never attended loads of games at that time by any means but I have great memories of the build up to the Scottish Cup Final, the first European game and one of my favourites was pumping Rangers 3-0 at Fir Park.  What a partnership Arnott and Coyne had, I am thankful I got to witness that. 

Did anyone head along to the Faroes or Finland back in the day? 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

I think if you were watching 'Well between 1989 AC (Anno Cooper) up until the end of McCall's time, then you've arguably seen 4 of our best ever teams, a cup win, 3 runners-up in the league (with some 3rd places added in) and multiple euro qualifications with us playing in the CWC, UC, EL and CL in Europe. And Dougie Arnott.

In short, you'd be a spoilt bastart.

I'd be curious to see how expectations or tolerance of poor seasons are spread across the age ranges of our support...is it irrelevant and it's a personality thing or is an expectation level buried in your subconscious during your formative years, as someone previously suggested?

There's certainly a logic to it...I have only vague memories of the 1980s BC (before Cooper) but I do remember laughter when I asked why we didn't play in Europe. If you think there's a gap to the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen now, the suggestion in say 1987, that we would do what we did in the next decade and beyond, regularly out performing Aberdeen (two years on from being champions and four from the CWC win over Real), Hearts (should have been champions a year earlier and should have knocked Bayern out of Europe) and Dundee United (fresh from the Uefa final, a few years on from being mugged of a EC final spot) would have had you sectioned.

Even allowing for the fact two of the above had enjoyed unique eras in their history and would naturally decline a bit, it's hard to explain to someone who started going in what, 2004 - now fully 20 years ago - that 20 years before that we were a yo-yo club emerging from financial crisis, and the prospect of doing anything other than kicking around before being relegated was nil.

Edited August 9 by Handsome_Devil

[welldaft]

15 minutes ago, Cloontang said:

1989/90 was the year I started going to games and what a time it was to start, I never attended loads of games at that time by any means but I have great memories of the build up to the Scottish Cup Final, the first European game and one of my favourites was pumping Rangers 3-0 at Fir Park.  What a partnership Arnott and Coyne had, I am thankful I got to witness that. 

Did anyone head along to the Faroes or Finland back in the day? 

My 1st away Euro game was Mypa 47. Back in 95. Nearly 30 years ago .

I think it was the home game was the only time I have ever sat in the away stand / end.  I am sure it was that game. Took the lead and then lost 3-1 .

 

[welldaft]

4 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'd be curious to see how expectations or tolerance of poor seasons are spread across the age ranges of our support...is it irrelevant and it's a personality thing or is an expectation level buried in your subconscious during your formative years, as someone previously suggested?

There's certainly a logic to it...I have only vague memories of the 1980s BC (before Cooper) but I do remember laughter when I asked why we didn't play in Europe. If you think there's a gap to the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen now, the suggestion in say 1987, that we would do what we did in the next decade and beyond, regularly out performing Aberdeen (two years on from being champions and four from the CWC win over Real), Hearts (should have been champions a year earlier and should have knocked Bayern out of Europe) and Dundee United (fresh from the Uefa final, a few years on from being mugged of a EC final spot) would have had you sectioned.

Even allowing for the fact two of the above had enjoyed unique eras in their history and would naturally decline a bit, it's hard to explain to someone who started going in what, 2004 - now nearly 20 years ago - that 20 years before that we were a yo-yo club emerging from financial crisis, and the prospect of doing anything other than kicking around before being relegated was nil.

As you know I have been having a slight meltdown over our injuries and the potential impact that will have on upcoming results.

But in truth I was thinking about how few times over nearly 40 years I have been seriously worried about relegation. The reality is it has only been a handful of seasons. Which for a club of our size is quite frankly remarkable. 

I don’t want to see us relegated, but I am not sure for how long we can avoid it with one of the 2-3 smallest budgets in the league. I would at least like us to get to 40 years in the top flight which if I am right would mean staying up this and possibly next season

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

I think if you were watching 'Well between 1989 AC (Anno Cooper) up until the end of McCall's time, then you've arguably seen 4 of our best ever teams, a cup win, 3 runners-up in the league (with some 3rd places added in) and multiple euro qualifications with us playing in the CWC, UC, EL and CL in Europe. And Dougie Arnott.

In short, you'd be a spoilt bastart.

Yep. This pretty much lines up exactly with my window of watching Motherwell albeit my first game was December 1986 I started going regularly with my Dad from around 1989 onwards.

49 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'd be curious to see how expectations or tolerance of poor seasons are spread across the age ranges of our support...is it irrelevant and it's a personality thing or is an expectation level buried in your subconscious during your formative years, as someone previously suggested?

There's certainly a logic to it...I have only vague memories of the 1980s BC (before Cooper) but I do remember laughter when I asked why we didn't play in Europe. If you think there's a gap to the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen now, the suggestion in say 1987, that we would do what we did in the next decade and beyond, regularly out performing Aberdeen (two years on from being champions and four from the CWC win over Real), Hearts (should have been champions a year earlier and should have knocked Bayern out of Europe) and Dundee United (fresh from the Uefa final, a few years on from being mugged of a EC final spot) would have had you sectioned.

Even allowing for the fact two of the above had enjoyed unique eras in their history and would naturally decline a bit, it's hard to explain to someone who started going in what, 2004 - now fully 20 years ago - that 20 years before that we were a yo-yo club emerging from financial crisis, and the prospect of doing anything other than kicking around before being relegated was nil.

I'd add another layer to that in so much as I think there's probably (definitely) a disconnect between expectations in general when it comes to the erm...older supporter and those whose formative experiences with football came around the time of the SKY boom (football didn't exist before 1992 etc).

By which I mean it feels as though there's probably less understanding or acceptance of what Modern Fitba' actually is and where a club like Motherwell fits in all that amongst the older generation but also a kind of skewed view of the club with the more Gen Z crowd who have grown up with a Global Football Culture and the concept of 'SuperClubs' whereas there's probably a sweet spot that hits with the very late Gen X, early Millennial cohort (Xennials are apparently a thing for 1977-1983) who kind of had a taste of both.

The description of having had an analog childhood and a digital young adulthood is actually quite apt in that respect.

Edited August 9 by capt_oats

['WellDel]

My first games were a  couple an older cousin took me along to in the promotion season in 84/85. A team with young prospects then like Tam Boyd, Gary McAllister and Andy Walker, interspersed with folk like Graeme Forbes, Andy Dornan and Derek Murray, and of course the mercurial Johnny G.!!. John 'The Cat' Gardiner followed by Shuggie Sproat in goals too, what a time to be alive!! 

Started going regularly with mates in high school, probably 87/88 season, and if you'd told me then some of the teams and players I would go on to have the privilege of watching and some of the unforgettable fitba experiences I've had, I'd have seriously doubted your sanity. May 18th, 1991 remains to this day, the best day of my life. (For fvcks sake please just never tell my wife that!!), and numerous trips to Hampden and Euro jaunts will also never be forgotten. Van Der Gaag's thunderb*****d and watching Dougie Arnott just being Dougie Arnott (especially against the old firm) are also great joys to look back on. Too many to mention really.

There's obviously been many a downer along the way, none more so than administration, but even around that time there were good memories to be had with the emergence of Faddy and Pearson amid all the carnage around them. I'll moan like everyone else when things aren't going our way but, on the whole, every down I've experienced, and of which there have been many, has been negated by an unforgettable high.

Football has changed dramatically over the last 40 years, but Motherwell's standing in it remains the same. An, on the whole, robust mid-lower Premiership side, and long may that continue. I'm skeptical as to whether I will ever see another team with the skill and flair of some of those I've witnessed in the past, but we live in hope!.

[Handsome_Devil]

37 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I don’t want to see us relegated, but I am not sure for how long we can avoid it with one of the 2-3 smallest budgets in the league. I would at least like us to get to 40 years in the top flight which if I am right would mean staying up this and possibly next season

Aye, it's inevitable at some point... perhaps it's my personality, perhaps it's having seen the admin days and having made peace with a hideous relegation in 2015, perhaps it's personal circumstances of having a young family to take up more of my my mental stress and most probably it's all of the above, but I just don't get worked up about it any more and can hardly understand the canny-take-it attitude of fans (ours or otherwise) when it's a possibility. It's a sport, sometimes you lose, and if you can't accept that with a degree of grace, don't play.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't want to be relegated - and the season it takes to go down will be a truly miserable process - but the world will keep turning the next August.

[Vietnam91]

First regular attendance at FP late 1990. Motivated by my neighbour Davie Cooper signing, he lived four doors down.

Few months earlier I was taken with the school to Murrayfield to see Scotland win the Grand Slam. Biology teacher/coach said nobody on the pitch (didn't realise that was a thing), whistle went and he was at the halfway line. Few months later, Italia 90, our 5th world cup in a row. Granted since then two nations reunified in Germany but six came from Yugoslavia, two from Czechoslovakia and umpteen former Soviet nations joined UEFA making it quite a bit harder.

First away game was to Parkhead on my own when we won 2-1 as a second year at high school, I got a Ralph Lauren jacket in Frasers with my mum and was feeling sweet. Walked the past the Barra's to Bridgeton then to Celtic Park shitting it. Came out after the game and stood in a burger van queue and assumed every Celtic supporter was Irish. Walked back into town and got the train back with my mum. Mental looking back.

We often took 6/7 points off both the OF a season, I witnessed some quality players and assumed that was the datum. Totally spoiled back then. Saw what the older fans went on about at the end of the McLeish reign, pretty much through to McGhee v.1.0 with only occasional highlights.

One thing I have saw time and time again, a good manager can affect results to a degree, a bad one will get the players downing tools to get him out. Our success has always been off the back of decent transfer dealings, that marks our success more than anything else.

For example in 2007/08 McGhee recruited Hughes, Hammell, Porter & .... Malcolm.

[Al B]

One of my favourite moments that still gets brought up today, is sitting watching us run out against Panathanaikos with the Champions League music playing, and my mum leaned to me and said "mind Dumbarton away in the cup?", and we both just burst out laughing.

We just realised during the County game last weekend that this is the 30th season of me and my mum going either every week or as often as we can. Sadly just missed the Cup win by a couple of seasons (didn't have anyone to go to games with at that point, and too young/far away to go myself) to complete the full set of madness, but there's been some mental moments both up and down during that period.

[camer0n_mcd]

I think it's pretty incredible that there are several generations of Motherwell fans that have only ever known us to be a premiership side, for people born in the late 90's/early 2000's we've spent most of their life challenging towards the top half of the league. Since 2002 we've finished in the top 2 more often than we have the bottom 2 (thanks Rangers).

I think that does contribute to last season feeling like a total disaster despite finishing 8 points clear of 10th 

[Busta Nut]

My Da took me as a youngster. Mid to late 80s. regularly later on. 

[Swello]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'd be curious to see how expectations or tolerance of poor seasons are spread across the age ranges of our support...is it irrelevant and it's a personality thing or is an expectation level buried in your subconscious during your formative years, as someone previously suggested?

There's certainly a logic to it...I have only vague memories of the 1980s BC (before Cooper) but I do remember laughter when I asked why we didn't play in Europe. If you think there's a gap to the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen now, the suggestion in say 1987, that we would do what we did in the next decade and beyond, regularly out performing Aberdeen (two years on from being champions and four from the CWC win over Real), Hearts (should have been champions a year earlier and should have knocked Bayern out of Europe) and Dundee United (fresh from the Uefa final, a few years on from being mugged of a EC final spot) would have had you sectioned.

Even allowing for the fact two of the above had enjoyed unique eras in their history and would naturally decline a bit, it's hard to explain to someone who started going in what, 2004 - now fully 20 years ago - that 20 years before that we were a yo-yo club emerging from financial crisis, and the prospect of doing anything other than kicking around before being relegated was nil.

My time going lines up in a weirdly precise way with @capt_oats - and I think what living through the 90's stuff would do (apart from giving you a lifelong hatred of Alex McLeish) is take the pressure off a bit. I hadn't been watching the club for 10 years and I'd seen us lift the cup in the best possible way, saw some of the best players ever to wear claret & amber and ended up watching us playing/competing with a world class Dortmund team in the Westfalon (courtesy of a £100 quid bus trip from Motherwell). That's not really what it's meant to be like for us.

The years I talked about are what a successful era for a town club actually looks like and maybe only a bit of distance that we now have makes that clearer. You could very reasonably say that with the talent we've had, we should have added at least another cup but that is the only frustration that remains.

For that reason, I'm totally relaxed as other clubs like Killie or St Mirren look to be on the up while we are flatlining a bit at the moment. If I was younger and had more limited good times in the bank, I might not feel that way

[Al B]

This is probably more of a wider context conversation, but lockdown has brought a huge general shift in attitude across the board I feel, there's much less patience, tolerance and acceptance post-covid, and a huge increase in entitlement. Much more of a general feeling of "I expect this, i want it now, and if it's not the way I want it to be, when I want it, then you're an arsehole and you can f**k off".

The prevelance of social media started it, as people are comparing the best, most curated and vetted parts of other people's lives against the full picture of their own, but that, plus lockdown, has created has created an aggressively demanding and intolerant society where actual anger is the default stance for many, when it comes to something happening that doesn't align with how they think it should be.

But aye, administration right up to chasni pies.... the full spectrum of emotions!