Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

In the full article I read, it's a handball he claims it for. I never saw any handball certainly.

In the build up to the Tony Watt chance, possibly? I think it came off someone’s arm on the way through. It actually looks pretty blatant on the first TV angle. If it was at the other end we’d have already seen numerous stills to prove how much the whole system is against them.

[thisGRAEME]

6 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

In the full article I read, it's a handball he claims it for. I never saw any handball certainly.

There was a moment where it popped up onto Balogun's arm-ish area, that I remember. But it was nothing more than a half-hearted shout, IMO.

[capt_oats]

11 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

In the build up to the Tony Watt chance, possibly? I think it came off someone’s arm on the way through. It actually looks pretty blatant on the first TV angle. If it was at the other end we’d have already seen numerous stills to prove how much the whole system is against them.

That's the one I thought he was talking about.

Given Celtic Twitter managed to fabricate a Van Veen handball immediately before Bolingoli's blatant one (because they don't understand how perspective works) and Rangers Twitter's mewling about Mugabi handling the ball in the 1-1 at Ibrox not to mention the one they did get at Fir Park last season I'd say this is pretty stonewall.

Edited November 1, 2021 by capt_oats

[Marinello]

Allowed the day to pass before posting.

In cold light of day I remain utterly embarrassed. Less so about individual players -many of whom had stinkers- but more so the tactical suicide we employed as per allowing so many crosses into our box

 I also wonder why Shields was removed when he was way ahead of our other strikers. If injured I'll take back my point.

Must also ask what's the script with Donnelly when yesterday I feel would have been a game he could have had a positive influence upon? Again, if he is unfit I will take back my point .

Finally, I'm aware we can get caught up with emotion when asked questions in the immediate aftermath of a game but I have to say GA' s comments re first 42 mns of game left me wondering if he watched the same game as me. The bottom line is that the opposition were in full control of the game  whether it be territorially, ball retention and chances made.

Lot of deep soul searching required before next Saturday.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Fair enough re the penalty - must have not seen it from the angle I was at in the East Stand.

 

[capt_oats]

55 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Fair enough re the penalty - must have not seen it from the angle I was at in the East Stand.

I mean, literally no one claims for it, we played on and it's a stretch to even vaguely suggest that it's a "turning point" or whatever but it'd have been an opportunity to go 2-0 up and the ball definitely looks like it changes direction off yer man's arm.

Puts it squarely in the bracket of "would've been given at the other end" based on previous showings.

Edited November 1, 2021 by capt_oats

[Ron Aldo]

The penalty would have made no difference. The way we were set up means we might have lost 6-2 rather than 6-1.

Yes I am still absolutely seething.

[Swello]

33 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Yes I am still absolutely seething.

Same.

I expect a routine drubbing off Rangers as it happens almost every season but yesterday was one of the more painful ones because of the crushing inevitability of it from the first few minutes - I'm simply not buying the intelligence insulting "it all went to plan for 42 mins" patter. Tavernier is an excellent player at our level - and there was basically a big worn bit on the grass on our left where he ran up and down unimpeded for 90 mins pinging crosses in - if you allow that, the result is going to be what we saw. In our league, nothing is surprising to any of our opponents and I don't think I'm imagining that successive opponents target our left side...

I really thought that this season with the signings we made, that we wouldn't be in our usual autumn/winter slump that needs repaired in January - but the fact that we've got no-one in midfield worthy of a start other than Slattery is looking like a massive error.

If Alexander had any sense - he wouldn't treat yesterday like a "bad day at the office, we go again" and instead would use it to (justifiably) change a system that's been totally ineffective for weeks now.

Also - the curse of the captains armband continues...

 

[well fan for life]

Brought myself to watch the club's post match interview and ruined my Monday morning. He even alludes to the way we are set up to defend. Clearly meaning we allow crosses. 

As for his "all went to plan for 42 minutes" schtick? He's either on the touchline sniffing glue or he thinks we're all fucking stupid. 

[Casagolda]

To be fair to Alexander(he said cautiously), did he not deploy pretty much the exact same tactics in his previous two games against Rangers? 

Never saw the draw at Ibrox but I remember watching the 1-1 draw at Fir Park last season on the tele and I’m sure it followed the same sort of pattern as yesterday. 

[Swello]

4 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

To be fair to Alexander(he said cautiously), did he not deploy pretty much the exact same tactics in his previous two games against Rangers? 

Never saw the draw at Ibrox but I remember watching the 1-1 draw at Fir Park last season on the tele and I’m sure it followed the same sort of pattern as yesterday. 

Was talking about this during the game yesterday - in the 1-1 game last season, they were flinging high crosses in every time which our defenders were dealing with routinely - yesterday, they were firing it in low most of the time, so maybe they learned that lesson?

[Casagolda]

7 minutes ago, Swello said:

Was talking about this during the game yesterday - in the 1-1 game last season, they were flinging high crosses in every time which our defenders were dealing with routinely - yesterday, they were firing it in low most of the time, so maybe they learned that lesson?

Probably. 

I mean it did seem unlikely that Gerrard would fall for the same routine 3 times running but I can’t really fault Alexander for trying, especially when it’s worked twice for him previously. Which is why I can understand his frustration and the whole it ‘it went to plan for 42 mins’ shtick. 

To be honest those sort of tactics don’t bother me that much against the Old Firm. It’s when we do it at home to St Mirren etc I find it much tougher watch. 

 

[Lobby Dossar]

 Everyone and their granny knew before the game that Tavernier and Bassey would bomb forward at every opportunity. With us playing 3 up front the 2 wide players should have been told to track back with them, a hard shift I know but if you want to nullify them it is what was required.

O’Donnell and McGinley, total shite the both of them and have been for weeks. Just look at O’Donnells 1st booking easy ball to him that he somehow manages to miss control and pulls the Ranger player back …… school boy stuff never mind a supposed international footballer. Don’t get me started on McGinley as I’ve said previously he’s a run of the mill jobbing centre half being asked to play at fullback. Look at the 1st goal not a Motherwell player within 15 yards of Tavernier Yip our wide player should be tracking him bur McGinley is marking nothing but space not a Rangers player anywhere near him, so he’s got to see the danger and close him down. As for the 5th goal just doesn’t see the man he’s supposed to be marking and just lets him run in behind him.

 

[dezz]

On the penalty chat - I wasn’t at the game yesterday, but the sky coverage showed a replay from another angle facing directly towards the south stand.

Although Balogun’s arm is in a weird position that particular reply showed it hit his thigh on the way through and didn’t hit his arm at any point…which makes it all the more baffling that GA is banging on about it changing the game.

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, Casagolda said:

To be fair to Alexander(he said cautiously), did he not deploy pretty much the exact same tactics in his previous two games against Rangers? 

Never saw the draw at Ibrox but I remember watching the 1-1 draw at Fir Park last season on the tele and I’m sure it followed the same sort of pattern as yesterday. 

I think the gripe is that he's stubbornly sticking to this tactic as opposed to looking at the amount of crosses coming in and thinking "maybe we could stop that". 

 

1 hour ago, Casagolda said:

To be honest those sort of tactics don’t bother me that much against the Old Firm. It’s when we do it at home to St Mirren etc I find it much tougher watch. 

 

Very much so. I could handle a defensive/counterattacking set up in these kind of games but watching us attempt to play horror football at home to teams around us in the league is fucking horrendous and should be binned immediately. 

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, Lobby Dossar said:

O’Donnell and McGinley, total shite the both of them and have been for weeks. Just look at O’Donnells 1st booking easy ball to him that he somehow manages to miss control and pulls the Ranger player back …… school boy stuff never mind a supposed international footballer. Don’t get me started on McGinley as I’ve said previously he’s a run of the mill jobbing centre half being asked to play at fullback. Look at the 1st goal not a Motherwell player within 15 yards of Tavernier Yip our wide player should be tracking him bur McGinley is marking nothing but space not a Rangers player anywhere near him, so he’s got to see the danger and close him down. As for the 5th goal just doesn’t see the man he’s supposed to be marking and just lets him run in behind him.

 

Don't disagree with this massively either, while I shared a gentle defence of them, they're both clearly struggling, so why are we playing them week in, week out at the moment?

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Probably. 

I mean it did seem unlikely that Gerrard would fall for the same routine 3 times running but I can’t really fault Alexander for trying, especially when it’s worked twice for him previously. Which is why I can understand his frustration and the whole it ‘it went to plan for 42 mins’ shtick. 

To be honest those sort of tactics don’t bother me that much against the Old Firm. It’s when we do it at home to St Mirren etc I find it much tougher watch. 

Aye, I'm very much *quiet voice*-ing here but surprising as it seems given he's never exactly won the majority of the fanbase over this is pretty much the first run of poor form Alexander has had since he got the job. He's clearly had a handful of poor results but most of those you could probably mitigate on account of injuries (St Johnstone) or not having the squad in place (Airdrie).

Looking at it, until the past few games his only B2B defeats were the Accies and St Johnstone games last season:

To that point it's probably not that much of a surprise that he's stuck to things tactically as he has.

The question I'd have (and it was also true of Robinson when he hit a wall) is whether or not Alexander is equipped to identify and fix the issues. We definitely have a squad that is better than it's been showing and we have goals in it (Tony Watt is literally top scorer in the league at the moment). It's the fact that over the last 5 games we seem to have gone off a cliff defensively that's grinding my gears.

Edited November 1, 2021 by capt_oats

[Swello]

5 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

It's the fact that over the last 5 games we seem to have gone off a cliff defensively that's grinding my gears.

I was wondering about this - I know the focus is on the midfiled but have we actually played the same defence twice in a row this season? We've got a lot of defenders but it seems that through injuries. suspension and "changes" that we haven't had a settled line-up at any point.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

There we go then, Grezza vindicated. As far as 1-6 games go it was one that hinged on fairly tight margins. Like somebody said above, for the first 43 minutes the gameplan was working about as well as it did in the two games we've taken points against them in previously. If Watt scores or we get the penalty then we're laughing. 

Obviously this is the exact same sort of luck we were benefitting from in August and September and the second half was still fucking appalling so it's hard to give GA too much leeway for yesterday, but it also seems worth remembering that it was at 3-1 in the 75th minute with ten men that the goals really started to pour in.

[capt_oats]

7 minutes ago, Swello said:

I was wondering about this - I know the focus is on the midfiled but have we actually played the same defence twice in a row this season? We've got a lot of defenders but it seems that through injuries. suspension and "changes" that we haven't had a settled line-up at any point.

Ironically, I think it's been this run of games where we *have* been playing a "settled" defence.

I posted this in the St Mirren match thread last week.

On 25/10/2021 at 13:35, capt_oats said:

There's an irony that up until recently we were chopping and changing the back 4 but still picking up results but that's us lost 3 on the bounce and shipped 6 goals with a "settled" back 4. That's the same number we conceded in the opening 7 games.

Hibs (2-3) - SOD, Mugabi, Lamie, Carroll
St Johnstone (1-1) - SOD, Mugabi, Lamie, Carroll
Livi (1-2) - Mugabi, Ojala, Lamie, Carroll
Dundee (1-0) - Mugabi, Ojala, Lamie, Carroll
Aberdeen (2-0) - Mugabi, Johansen, Ojala, McGinley
Rangers (1-1) - SOD, Mugabi, Ojala, McGinley
County (2-1) - SOD, Ojala, Lamie, McGinley.

The last 3 have been SOD, Mugabi, Ojala, McGinley and we've only scored 1 goal. Compared to us having scored in every game up til then and Carroll still sitting on 3 league assists for the season (Ramsay and Tavernier are top with 4).

Rangers was obviously a change with Johansen coming in for Ojala but aye...I kind of wondered if it was part of the reason for sticking with McGinley in so much as we won 2 and drew at Ibrox after Carroll's red card and we've been trying to make a settled thing happen.