Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[well fan for life]

I don't even blame SOD for getting sent off. I'd want to fucking bail out of Alexander's tactics immediately as well tbh,

[ZX1886]

I don't even blame SOD for getting sent off. I'd want to fucking bail out of Alexander's tactics immediately as well tbh,

I did think KVV was being subbed on just to kick people.

[welldaft]

2 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

It'll no do. 

That we continue to put in the same performances, with the same personnel, the same gaping deficiencies in the plan, and seem to think "let's just try and be better at it" is pretty concerning. 

I actually really feel for a few members of the squad who are knocking their pan in for little reward.

This is pretty much it for me. I almost expect GA to come out in his post match to say that was not good enough and the players and I need to have a hard look at ourselves etc. Instead he keeps up with “the team and tactics working well” (until we conceded 6 goals) garbage.

The fans and even the pundits (today) are querying why we are apparently happy to give up possession in the wide areas constantly. That and not closing down opposition wingers. Is it really a tactic for McGinley to decide to engage reverse gear every time Tavernier ran at him today. Is it really a tactic to let so many crosses come into our box unopposed ? To the point where they have the time to actually not just cross but almost to be more accurate as they are under no pressure. 

I genuinely have not seen nor heard this ever being a good tactic. And today and previous games shows why. 

GA did a good job last season keeping us up with something to spare in the end. I also think there are 11 players in our squad that can form a decent side. Make us more competitive. I just feel the Manager has the formation and personnel wrong. He tinkers with personnel but seems to stick rigidly to formation and tactics of surrendering possession. 

Surely a decent Manager can see it is not working. It is not like we are being unlucky. He needs to rethink his approach. We actually won games with Mugabi at Right back and Carroll at left back. If Juhani is not fit then Lamie should come in as CB and Mugabi to RB.

If we go to Pittodrie with 4-3-3 and McGinley starts I genuinely will cry . 

Edited October 31, 2021 by welldaft

[Gianfranco]

I’ll not be purchasing Aberdeen’s ppv until I see our lineup.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I fucking love Bevis btw, maybe SR was onto something with playing him upfront

['WellDel]

I don't know if he just sticks blindly with the formation and complete concession of midfield in every game simply because we do not have a midfield to speak of. It's just Slattery along with another couple of empty jerseys running about aimlessly, making up the numbers.

O'Hara has the physical attributes to be able to get stuck in but is soft as shite. Goss ghosts around doing hee haw, Grimshaw is, well, Grimshaw. Your options after that are Crawford, Maguire etc. (whom I would maybe even be inclined to give a run out as at least he is likely to get fucked in unlike sand dancer Goss).

Whether we missed a deadline target or not, there is no excuse for that to be the sum of your parts in the middle of the park. One of, if not the worst midfields in the league. 

To start with  the defence was performing well enough to cope with the constant onslaught, but since that's went to shit the whole gameplan is out the window, yet he continues blindly with it. For Aberdeen, it might not be pretty, but if Alexander is insistent on playing the same way, I'd jettison Goss and put Maguire in. Then it's a choice of telling O'Hara to get the finger out or putting Grimmy back in. Not pretty but at least functional and might offer the defence a bit of protection.

Either that or just fire big Mich'el right in there for the lol's. After the last few games, what's the worst that could happen?

[Busta Nut]

I am fucking sick of watching this shite.

[Allroy for Prez]

It’s far too early to bin Alexander but barring a massive change in approach the attendances are going to fall off a cliff. That’s the feel good factor of being back at the fitba and being excited well and truly ruined.
 

At least Dundee gave the perfect response to losing by 5 at home, it remains to be seen if we do, but if at 2pm next Saturday we see we’re lining up 433 with McGinley and Goss in there Flow should start drawing up a shortlist of replacements. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Allroy for Prez

[capt_oats]

I've no real interest in a navel gazing post-mortem about today because...tbh, what's the fucking point?

To speak broadly though we've had a good start to the season, that's undeniable and remains the case regardless of the 1-6 today. Like most I'd have taken sitting 6th on 15 points after the first round of fixtures so I'm not about to pretend otherwise and getting on the revisionist bandwagon is for the birds. We picked up points because we were clinical with our finishing, created good chances and for the most part were comfortable keeping teams at arms length. It was true when we were all posting about it in August and September and it's true now.

That's fine.

The flip of that is that if you accept that we were worth our points up until Alexander won MoTM (and we were worth the points) the recent run is something that can't really just be swept under the carpet. In the first 7 games we'd conceded 7 goals, in the last 5 we've conceded 14 (FOURTEEN). I'm no fitba' genius but that would suggest an issue somewhere.

Pointing to underlying numbers kind of misses the point in that, as @crazylegsjoe_mfc pointed out the other day, for the most part the goals we've started coughing up have fundamentally been mistakes. Kelly inexplicably conceding a penalty with 3 mins gone at Tynecastle, O'Donnell ball watching against Celtic and United, McGinley getting caught on the ball and handling for the free kick that led to United's 2nd, Brophy's first the other night....there are plenty to choose from.

It's a coulda, woulda situation but even on Wednesday night regardless of "style" or whatever we got ourselves in a position to win the game. We're 2-0 up with 53 mins played. Sure, Bobby Madden cost us the win (I 100% believe this and won't be swayed otherwise) but even that in itself is a "look at the shiny things" distraction - we still conceded 2 goals where it feels like we probably wouldn't have a month and a half ago.

We've not won a game with Goss starting. I'm not saying it's all Sean Goss's fault but it's a fairly obvious question to ask in terms of "what was different in the first 7 games vs the most recent 5". There are probably some pretty inconvenient truths in the answers.

Either way, it needs fixed. So get it done Grezza.

Edited October 31, 2021 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

18 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

for the most part the goals we've started coughing up have fundamentally been mistakes.

Almost every goal scored in football contains a "mistake" in it from the side that concedes, tbf. You can't just look at ones you've conceded as being freak incidences and not do the same for the ones you've scored.

The underlying numbers chat just hints at your chances of winning. Only Livingston are regularly having less of the important things every match than their opponents, and the only difference between you and them is you're more clinical with chances so far. It doesn't mean you and them will finish 11th/12th, just that you have less margin for error every game than the rest of the league, so when small things start to go wrong, as they do, it'll hit harder.

[capt_oats]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Almost every goal scored in football contains a "mistake" in it from the side that concedes, tbf. You can't just look at ones you've conceded as being freak incidences and not do the same for the ones you've scored.

The underlying numbers chat just hints at your chances of winning. Only Livingston are regularly having less of the important things every match than their opponents, and the only difference between you and them is you're more clinical with chances so far. It doesn't mean you and them will finish 11th/12th, just that you have less margin for error every game than the rest of the league, so when small things start to go wrong, as they do, it'll hit harder.

Yeah, I get all that. I should have qualified it by saying "mistakes we weren't making previously". For reasons that aren't exactly clear we seem to have started making really dumb decisions defensively.

Kelly coming flying out his goal at Tynecastle to needlessly concede the penalty and again the other night against St Mirren for Brophy's first goal being examples.

Edited October 31, 2021 by capt_oats

[Zamora Fan]

Interested to see the chat about Goss. Motherwell fans starting to see what we warned them about? Think the guy might be my least favourite player ever

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

Interested to see the chat about Goss. Motherwell fans starting to see what we warned them about? Think the guy might be my least favourite player ever

 

40 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

We've not won a game with Goss starting

A good run of form turning into a poor run of form, with a spineless performance v Rangers in the mix.

Thats the Sean Goss effect!

[thisGRAEME]

2 hours ago, welldaft said:

 

I genuinely have not seen nor heard this ever being a good tactic. And today and previous games shows why. 

So in bits and pieces, it kind of works. We compress the game into 3 lines and it makes it a) difficult to play through and b) easier to break with. 

It seems to rely on you defence finding midfielders quickly, and being aggressive, attackers holding it for midfielders to support and getting in behind, and midfielders shuttling back and forth at pace, aggressively pressing second balls.

We're fucking shit at the last bit, so it falls to bits.

[capt_oats]

22 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

A good run of form turning into a poor run of form, with a spineless performance v Rangers in the mix.

Thats the Sean Goss effect!

Honestly, it's not even funny. You'd only lost 3 of the previous 14 before he made his debut.

Spoiler

Played 6 W 0 D 1 L 5

We'd only lost 2 of our previous 8 before he made his first league start.

Spoiler

As of now he's started 4 we've lost 3 and drawn 1.

Edited October 31, 2021 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Honestly, it's not even funny. 

Can't say you weren't warned tbf.

Fairly sure he got dumped to left back at Shrewsbury because he couldn't be trusted in the middle.

If you're lucky Alexander will have less of an ego than Wright and will see its not working and dump him, rather than continue the charade because he'd signed them and wanted it to work out. If you're unlucky he'll continue to mince about the middle of the park contributing nothing expect the odd dead ball.

['WellDel]

23 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

So in bits and pieces, it kind of works. We compress the game into 3 lines and it makes it a) difficult to play through and b) easier to break with. 

It seems to rely on you defence finding midfielders quickly, and being aggressive, attackers holding it for midfielders to support and getting in behind, and midfielders shuttling back and forth at pace, aggressively pressing second balls.

We're fucking shit at the last bit, so it falls to bits.

A couple of competent full backs would be nice, but oh, for some fucking midfielders.

[Radford]

That's quite remarkable that Goss has done it again.

Sympathies. 

[shuggy d]

4 hours ago, Mr Hahn said:

I appreciate our midfielders are pish, but clearly only playing 3 of them isn't working. We're getting so badly dominated in that area of the park every week that the only solution I see is to put another body in there and try a different system. 4-3-3 is dandy when you've got three midfielders with good movement and interplay but we don't and I'm not really sure why we've persisted with 4-3-3 for so long, particularly as it was the same system that the previous manager played.

Seen better midfielders in the lower leagues

[Busta Nut]

Is there any chat worth reading in the match thread?
I have stayed out of it as the Rangers fans on here are all glory hunting morons from up north or down in the borders who couldn't point to Ibrox on a map.