Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

I put arguably as I'm not arrogant enough to think my opinion is the final word on anything

I watched Campbell against Hibs at Fir Park and I compared his performance to the one that I saw in the first half at the corresponding fixture at Easter Rd (when the team also wasn't playing well) - and I saw a big drop off. But that's fine! He was dropped/rested after the semi and that was fine too - he is potentially a fantastic player (and has indeed been superb at times) but we need to look after him and not burden him with unrealistic "first name on the teamsheet" type expectations...

It's conviction, not arrogance

Sadly the rest of the midfield is under performing rather drastically.  McHugh has been terrible this season, Rose is a step up from the likes of Clay but still has been found wanting more often than not.  Bigirimana can't force himself into the team on a regular basis.

Whether you like it or not, Campbell is one of the most important players in the squad right now and he should be in the team.

[Londonwell]

13 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

  "I'm very happy here and to be honest I was surprised to sign a new deal so quickly," Kipre told Motherwell's official website.

Seems the player was neither wanting or expecting a new deal.

Nice try, however 2 can play that game.

“We brought him in to have a look at him but now feel we need to put him up on the same level as the other first-team players because he is a first-team player." Stephen Robinson told Motherwell's official website.

He plays for the 1st team, he should be on a 1st team contract- end of story.

Apart from that argument, despite a few mistakes recently I think you'd be hard pushed to find a well fan, other than yourself, that wouldn't be more confident having a 20 year old- who has had more promising performances than poor ones- tied down to a 2 year deal, rather than a 1 year. 

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Londonwell

[mjw]

Crikey.
Mind we were in relegation battles and fucked out the cup in August? Those were the days.

[MJC]

I even remember the days where we did really well in the league, second best only to Celtic indeed, yet for some reason just couldn't or didn't turn up in Cup games. This meant we had to suffer watching the likes of St.Mirren & Kilmarnock winning domestic honours all whilst we were being pumped out by Albion Rovers etc.

Well I wouldn't swap a League Cup win or indeed even our run this season beating Aberdeen then Rangers for one of those seasons where we qualified for the utter dross that is the Europa League qualifiers only to be humped by some nonentity from the armpit of eastern Europe. The feeling we've had about this Cup run, the buzz, the excitement at scudding Aberdeen then going to Hampden and humiliating Rangers to reach a National Cup Final has been brilliant and has reinvigorated my love of football and dare I say it, that of many other Well fans. 

THIS is what it's all about...preparing for a Cup Final which puts us 90 minutes away from winning Silverware (slim as that chance is given the opponents, I do concede) not contesting some European qualifier against a side no one has ever heard of in a competition we are never going to make a scratch in.

[rambunctious]

Do you really think players should get contract extensions based on 8 weeks of form?  Or managers?   I'm saying that's not long enough to gauge, in a responsible way, if you are getting value for the increase in expenditure.  Agree? Disagree?

Teams all over the world hand out 1-5 year deals to players who’ve been on 1 week trials and maybe played in the odd friendly...

8 weeks of pre-season and normal training along with a load of competitive games is plenty of time. I mean, we’ve only extended his deal by a year and bumped up his wage. We’ve not handed him a 5 year deal, made him our highest earner and gave him the captains armband.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

18 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It's conviction, not arrogance

Sadly the rest of the midfield is under performing rather drastically.  McHugh has been terrible this season, Rose is a step up from the likes of Clay but still has been found wanting more often than not.  Bigirimana can't force himself into the team on a regular basis.

Whether you like it or not, Campbell is one of the most important players in the squad right now and he should be in the team.

I'm convinced now  more than ever that you're either a) on the wind up or b) letting your weird dislike of Stephen Robinson cloud your judgement. I can't see any other reason why you'd go from one of the saner posters- especially regarding McGhee last year when we were struggling at the bottom and the majority of SO seemed to want the guy lynched- to seemingly absolutely raging at the fact we're in a cup final and 5th in the league.

[Ya Bezzer!]

6 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'm convinced now  more than ever that you're either a) on the wind up or b) letting your weird dislike of Stephen Robinson cloud your judgement. I can't see any other reason why you'd go from one of the saner posters- especially regarding McGhee last year when we were struggling at the bottom and the majority of SO seemed to want the guy lynched- to seemingly absolutely raging at the fact we're in a cup final and 5th in the league.

The problem here is some fans, like yourself and others above, can't handle any sort of alternative view when the team is being perceived as doing well.  You want to shut down debate by ridiculing people and setting them up as a 'raging lunatic' character so you don't actually have to defend your position.  At least Swello argued his case, good on him. Power to his elbow. But you like so many others you are inventing characters and narrative. I'm not a raging lunatic and I'd like you to support the claim that I'm 'absolutely raging at the fact we're in a cup final'.  In fact as someone who makes no bones about despising Rangers I can assure you it was an absolutely glorious episode in my own personal Motherwell story.  However, that does not blind me to the fact that team played absolutely mince for at least 50% of the match and we we're lucky to go in at half time at 0-0 nor to the fact that if we play like that against Celtic we will most likely get get humped. 

As you said many supporters took no account of the fact that we were incredibly unlucky last season, that a whole string of events - last minute transfers, refereeing decisions, disallowed goals, injuries, player mistakes - that were outwith the managers control took us from Top 6 (yes, we were Top 6 in January last season, how quickly some forget), to a very difficult place.  Those things should have been taken into account. 

This season, many supporters have taken no account of the fact that our fortunes have reversed.  Robinson has done well to get 19 points at this stage of the season but we've been lucky.  How many matches have we been rotten beyond belief and gone in at half time 0-0 when it should have been 0-1 or 0-2?   We've also been lucky with the fixtures, no Celtic, 6 home in the first 8 and bunch of them against under performing and very winnable opponents - Ross County, Kilmarnock, Partick, Hearts etc.  Now we are coming up against a much tougher run of fixtures things are, probably, going to even out a little.  However, it won't be me raging and demanding the managers head if we lose the next five matches.  That's because I actually take a balance view and don't allow emotions to skew my thinking, whether those be negative or positive emotions.

But lets talk about th team. Do you really think we have more than one effective tactic in our bag?  Do you really think Kipre's form isn't a worry going into this final?  Do you really think McHugh and Dunne are Xavi like in possession and don't give the ball away just about every time they get it?  Do you really think we aren't heavily reliant on set pieces to score a goal?  These are areas, in my opinion, that we need to address or the early success of the season won't last long. Rather than being 'absolutely raging' at success, I'd rather, as someone who invests heavily into his football club, I've been to 45 matches, home and away over the last season and a bit, that we keep being successful.  That fact is what seems to be beyond your comprehension.  You don't improve by slapping yourself on the back and saying "we're great".

That's the difference.  Last season, we had to accentuate the positive, to get the team out of a hole.  The true raging lunatics in our support showed themselves then and I wasn't one of them.  This season if we are actually going to build on some early success we need to learn from our mistakes.  There's been plenty but we've been lucky enough to not be punished on them for the most part.  Let's not pretend that fortunes never shift or that we are peerless and without deficiency.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

The problem here is some fans, like yourself and others above, can't handle any sort of alternative view when the team is being perceived as doing well.  You want to shut down debate by ridiculing people and setting them up as a 'raging lunatic' character so you don't actually have to defend your position.  At least Swello argued his case, good on him. Power to his elbow. But you like so many others you are inventing characters and narrative. I'm not a raging lunatic and I'd like you to support the claim that I'm 'absolutely raging at the fact we're in a cup final'.  In fact as someone who makes no bones about despising Rangers I can assure you it was an absolutely glorious episode in my own personal Motherwell story.  However, that does not blind me to the fact that team played absolutely mince for at least 50% of the match and we we're lucky to go in at half time at 0-0 nor to the fact that if we play like that against Celtic we will most likely get get humped. 

As you said many supporters took no account of the fact that we were incredibly unlucky last season, that a whole string of events - last minute transfers, refereeing decisions, disallowed goals, injuries, player mistakes - that were outwith the managers control took us from Top 6 (yes, we were Top 6 in January last season, how quickly some forget), to a very difficult place.  Those things should have been taken into account. 

This season, many supporters have taken no account of the fact that our fortunes have reversed.  Robinson has done well to get 19 points at this stage of the season but we've been lucky.  How many matches have we been rotten beyond belief and gone in at half time 0-0 when it should have been 0-1 or 0-2?   We've also been lucky with the fixtures, no Celtic, 6 home in the first 8 and bunch of them against under performing and very winnable opponents - Ross County, Kilmarnock, Partick, Hearts etc.  Now we are coming up against a much tougher run of fixtures things are, probably, going to even out a little.  However, it won't be me raging and demanding the managers head if we lose the next five matches.  That's because I actually take a balance view and don't allow emotions to skew my thinking, whether those be negative or positive emotions.

But lets talk about th team. Do you really think we have more than one effective tactic in our bag?  Do you really think Kipre's form isn't a worry going into this final?  Do you really think McHugh and Dunne are Xavi like in possession and don't give the ball away just about every time they get it?  Do you really think we aren't heavily reliant on set pieces to score a goal?  These are areas, in my opinion, that we need to address or the early success of the season won't last long. Rather than being 'absolutely raging' at success, I'd rather, as someone who invests heavily into his football club, I've been to 45 matches, home and away over the last season and a bit, that we keep being successful.  That fact is what seems to be beyond your comprehension.  You don't improve by slapping yourself on the back and saying "we're great".

That's the difference.  Last season, we had to accentuate the positive, to get the team out of a hole.  The true raging lunatics in our support showed themselves then and I wasn't one of them.  This season if we are actually going to build on some early success we need to learn from our mistakes.  There's been plenty but we've been lucky enough to not be punished on them for the most part.  Let's not pretend that fortunes never shift or that we are peerless and without deficiency.

I do think, as often, you've made a lot of entirely reasonable points here but are prone to hyperbole. I appreciate that you'd probably rather talk about football than read my critiques on Ya Bezzer's posting style so that's the last I'll mention it. 

Mchugh has been a disappointment this season. His passing has been too often erratic and he has an alarming tendency to let opposition midfielders and strikers run straight by him. I'm still not fully convinced he actually belongs in midfield. I'd consider moving him into central defence for a few games to take Kipre out the firing line. 

On Kipre, I'm not really sure why anybody expected anything else. He's 20 years old, playing his first ever senior games and has been, by and large, a revelation, especially as he obviously wasn't signed with the expectations that he'd be in the starting eleven every week. He's shown he has both the raw physical strengths as well as actual footballing ability to be great for us. He does however, have a few glaring weaknesses- dealing with balls over his head, lapses in decision making- which have been exacerbated by our system and the massive gaps we leave between fullback and central defence. He's now hit a run of bad form which should be entirely expected of a young player who's only senior gametime prior to this season was 3 games on loan at Corby Town. It's to Allan Campbell's credit that he's been consistently fantastic more or less since his debut, but he's very much the exception when it comes to young players, so shouldn't be used as an stick to beat Kipre with. Like I said above, I do think Kipre's could benefit from a spell out of the team at the moment. That said, the mistakes he's making at the moment are entirely those I'd expect a rookie defender to make, and see no reason why he can't be a fantastic player over time with some coaching and more match experience. Just as well we've got a few more years to work with him.  

Andy Rose is entirely adequate at what he does and the role he plays in our team.

Poor first half performances have been concerning and we've been lucky not to be out of the game at half time more than once. I'll be charitable to Robinson and attribute that to his relative inexperience as a manager, to his credit we've improved in the second half 9 times out of 10. Remains to be seen if we're still as effective in the last three quarters of the season now teams are aware of our style of play, I genuinely think it's up in the air right now as to how the season goes. I'd argue that right now 5th place is a fair reflection of our showing so far this season, if in May we finish above where we are now then Robinson has massively overachieved. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by YassinMoutaouakil

[mjw]

However, that does not blind me to the fact that team played absolutely mince for at least 50% of the match and we we're lucky to go in at half time at 0-0 nor to the fact that if we play like that against Celtic we will most likely get get humped. 

You've probably just described the vast majority of games where Motherwell beat either of those two.
If we do win the cup we'll need the same circumstances to be repeated. Well have to ride our luck and hope they (like rangers) have an off day in front of goal.

[thisGRAEME]

On 09/11/2017 at 15:58, Ya Bezzer! said:

Yeah, cos I paid out £700 odd in season tickets just so I could 'vindicate' myself to complete unknowns on the internet.  Are you serious? 

If I've been quiet recently it's partly because I'm working my arse off with 12 hour days and partly because I actually just don't bother posting certain opinions because I know I'll get the sort of post above.  I have absolutely no interest in being some micro celebrity on a message board and attracting that sort of attention, I'm a grown man.

Here's the deal,  I'm a Motherwell fan through and through, I've been going to matches for 30 years, long before the internet even existed, been through some pretty lean years by the way, and because I'm passionate about something I have opinions on it.  If you don't like my opinions fine but at least disagree with them instead of coming up with some risible psychological profile of myself.   And what's more, whenever someone like yourself takes a pop at me either here or on Steelmen Online, rarely if ever do they actually challenge whatever point it as that I made.  It's always about me, as if you can't actually come up with an argument against my points but want to disagree anyway.

Let's get back to the football eh?  Do you really think players should get contract extensions based on 8 weeks of form?  Or managers?   I'm saying that's not long enough to gauge, in a responsible way, if you are getting value for the increase in expenditure.  Agree? Disagree?

Aye, but how much did you spend in the club shop?

[capt_oats]

So stripping back the hyperbole, the issue here is that Robinson and the team are getting credit from Motherwell fans for winning games they didn't really play that well in and could have lost (but didn't)?

Sound.

[MJC]

We have rode our luck on a few occasions this season, most notably the Ross County game at Fir Park, the Cup Semi Final and even the Accies game where we were poor for the most part but still won. However as a team we have most definitely improved on last season and as a result there is a much better mood around the club as a while and the players actually look as though they are enjoying their football, something which just wasn't the case last season.

You can argue that we were perhaps unlucky at times last season but I think it's fair to say that we were on the whole absolutely awful for the most part and it was an absolutely turgid campaign. We had a squad filled up with aging players in their second and in some cases, third and fourth spells at the club, mixed with utter garbage like Zak Jules & Craig Clay who couldn't string two wins in a row until MAY!

We also had a manager for the majority of the season who was no good for us whatsoever and his massively inflated ego contributed greatly to our downfall. Ya Bezzer! correctly points out that we went from top six in early January to a sticky situation by the end of the season but you have to look at the turning point here. Where and when was this? In my opinion it was 100% at Ibrox in the Scottish Cup in January when we lost 2-1 to two late goals. On paper that sounds unfortunate, but we were dire that day and were set up to take the game to a replay until Moult puts us ahead against the run of play before our late collapse. Bad enough, but our manager then takes to national TV/radio to tell the world that it's the worst he's ever felt in 900 games and that he feels hollow and he can't even look at the players and basically puts the entire team bar McDonald right under the bus taking no responsibility whatsoever. It was no coincidence whatsoever that our performances and form nosedived dramatically from this point onwards and we would go on to lose 7-2 and 5-1(at HOME) within the next five weeks.

Stephen Robinson had a tough, tough job to do to keep us up last season due to the shambles his predecessor left us in and he just did enough and has made some good progress this season, on and off the park. His summer transfer dealings were far more astute than our business the previous year and he seems to instill confidence in the team. Yes he's made mistakes but he is relatively inexperienced but I see nothing to suggest we are not now moving in the right direction.

[Busta Nut]

I canny believe what I read sometimes

[WellView]

On 12/11/2017 at 12:21, Busta Nut said:

I canny believe what I read sometimes

Some people are not happy until they are unhappy.  

[Busta Nut]

Sparra, Busta and Jay look back on the 3-2 defeat to Ross County, preview Saturday’s visit to Aberdeen and reflect on a fantastic night at the MFC Podcast ‘Top 25 Greatest Post-War Motherwell Players’ event.

 

http://www.mfc1886.c...-18-episode-16/

 

 

[capt_oats]

Officially Elite lads

[Swello]

Love a jaunty logo. 

[Swello]

The fucking state  of this:

Quote

Motherwell chief Alan Burrows hit with terrible Twitter abuse but still offers fan top class service

The Fir Park director responded to an angry supporter who couldn't get hold of Betfred Cup final tickets.

By

Record Sport Online

• 22:37, 15 NOV 2017
• UPDATED22:42, 15 NOV 2017

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Motherwell chief Alan Burrows has stepped in to help an irate fan struggling to acquire Betfred Cupfinal tickets - despite being branded 'fat' and 'useless'.

The Steelmen are set to take on holders Celtic at Hampden on November 26 with the first piece of silverware of the season up for grabs.

But it appears not everyone is having an easy time getting a brief for the big game, as evidenced by one 'Well supporter's angry tirade against the club on Twitter.

Addressing Motherwell 's official account, user @davidmclean87 directed his frustration at Burrows as he claimed he couldn't get through to anyone at the club's ticket office for THREE days.

He tweeted: "Been trying to phone @MotherwellFC ticket office for three days. Can't get through.

"Sent 3 emails from 3 different emails practically begging them to take my money.

"No f*****g reply.

"Alan Burrows squarely to blame for this shambles. Fat useless lump"

Alan Burrows (right) has stepped in to help a fan on Twitter (Image: SNS)

But the Well chief operating officer stepped in to offer assistance in an attempt to ensure the supporter got his tickets for the crunch tie.

Alan Burrows steps in on Twitter to help a frustrated fan (Image: Twitter)

The Well fan thanked Burrows for his assistance but still expressed concern over the running of the club shop, prompting the Fir Park director to admit the club were looking to improve the service.

(Image: Twitter)

Motherwell face Brendan Rodgers' Hoops at the national stadium in just under two weeks time, looking for their first domestic cup triumph since 1991.

 

[Widge]

Fair play to Burrows, he's an absolute asset to Motherwell.

[Swello]

What isn't shown in the article is when 'Flow mentions "the next cup final" - the angry supporter (not convinced he's a 'well fan but someone will know him, so could be wrong) said something along the lines of "I don't give a f**k about the next cup final - get some c***s on the phones!!11!". He seems to have deleted that one for some reason - but only 1 person comes out of the exchange with a a bit of dignity.