YassinMoutaouakil Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Are all full-backs just shite now? Is it a really hard position to play in the modern game? It feels weird that we've had maybe 2 or 3 decent ones over the last decade compared to our goalies, forwards etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Tait was an excellent RB for us at his peak. I always felt he was as good as a peak SOD but when Scotland's RB crisis came it's easy to pick the guy third in the league. SOD obviously seized his chance and Clarke going to Hampden cemented his place but I suspect in quiet moments Tait will wonder 'what if' a couple wee things had turner out differently. Hope he is a happy retirement and good luck in whatever he does next. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: Are all full-backs just shite now? Is it a really hard position to play in the modern game? It feels weird that we've had maybe 2 or 3 decent ones over the last decade compared to our goalies, forwards etc. I mentioned this pages ago but I reckon yes. Previously your FB was expected to be a defensive player and if they offered much going forward it was a bonus. They also, in old 4-4-2, often had a winger in front of them who would help out. Now they're expected to be able to defend less, but still adequately, and play almost as auxiliary wingers with the according threat. Or at least offer themselves in midfield for 'overloading'. This is done nowadays in formations which often see them abandoned one v one as the old 'no crosses' mantra has become 'cross all day, we'll deal with it'. Obviously at the top level you get these players who can do everything but Motherwell finding full backs to tick these boxes is incredibly hard - and is arguably one of the reasons why 3-5-2 can still be so strong for us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 17 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said: Tait was an excellent RB for us at his peak. I always felt he was as good as a peak SOD but when Scotland's RB crisis came it's easy to pick the guy third in the league. SOD obviously seized his chance and Clarke going to Hampden cemented his place but I suspect in quiet moments Tait will wonder 'what if' a couple wee things had turner out differently. Hope he is a happy retirement and good luck in whatever he does next. Think their differing styles maybe played into that too. SOD was obviously miles out of his depth technically at international level but could generally compete physically by virtue of running about the pitch kicking your Grealishes etc. Tait was a nice footballer, probably better on the ball than SOD but can imagine he'd have been exposed a bit more easily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 minute ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: Think their differing styles maybe played into that too. SOD was obviously miles out of his depth technically at international level but could generally compete physically by virtue of running about the pitch kicking your Grealishes etc. Tait was a nice footballer, probably better on the ball than SOD but can imagine he'd have been exposed a bit more easily. Aye, quite possibly. It also maybe explains why SOD, half a yard slower in his elder years, post-Covid, whatever, has fallen off sich a cliff performance wise. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For Your Pies Only Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 32 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: It feels weird that we've had maybe 2 or 3 decent ones over the last decade compared to our goalies, forwards etc. On the flip side, we've had a good number of reliable workhorses in that position who ran all day and kept things tidy, if sometimes uninspiring. The sort of players that generally help a lot with defensive solidity and offer an out-ball on the wing without ever standing out that much. Grimmy, SOD, Steven Saunders when used at RB, Paul Quinn and Corrigan would all fall into that 'hardworking fullback' category. Josh Law is probably the prime example for me - a limited player in most ways but he put in a huge shift every game, and was positionally very sound, great at covering gaps and appearing at just the right time. I'd put Tait a level above most of them in performance/ability (Corrigan, Quinn and maybe SOD in his first season would compete) but he was also very hard-working. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Tait was very good for us in his first couple of seasons and seemed just as comfortable on the left as he did on the right. But something happened in that close season when he came back he seemed to have lost a yard of pace and looked like he was towing a caravan. It was all very strange as he is a super fit guy and seemed to take care of himself very well. I did wonder at the time if he hadnt put on too much muscle with the whole crossfit thing and it had an adverse effect on his pace. Was a shame how it ended with us, but bygones and all that. Wish him well with whatever the future holds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Right back is weird - we've rarely had an outstanding one compared to almost every other position in the team (and LB has been the opposite). Nijholt was the best by a mile over my time watching, then there is a 2nd tier that Tait would be part of along with a few other "reliable workhorses" (to quote @For Your Pies Only ). My memory of Tait is that he was great right up until he wasn't - he kind of went off a cliff and I can't remember anyone crying when he signed for Saints. It's maybe a measure of how well thought of he was by the fact that he gets a retirement announcement on our socials quite a while after leaving, which is rare I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Kirk Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Yeah joking aside he was great for us the first couple of seasons . Had a superb cross on him and very vocal too - a real lead by example type and perfect fit for our Thunderdome . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 In a broader sense it's worth re-visiting the signings we made the season Tait signed as I think he shows up well out of that particular class. Interesting to note that Carl McHugh also joined the 100 game club and would probably have had more appearances if his head hadn't exploded early on in his time with us. I have a suspicion that Les bailing from his 5 year plan early may have impacted on our business and it's also possible that we leaned a bit too heavily on the idea that we could just pick up players from the National League and replicate what we got from Moult and Johnson. Either way... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Oh… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Oh… I don't blame SB as he was asked the question but that's hardly a Pulitzer in the waiting, you'd have been utterly amazed if there wasn't news this week! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 14 hours ago, Kapowzer said: He pronounces it "Winga" You for real? f**k sake man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliphas Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 9 hours ago, capt_oats said: Oh… There was chat about us making the striker lad we had over in the Netherlands permanent I think wasn't there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, eliphas said: There was chat about us making the striker lad we had over in the Netherlands permanent I think wasn't there. I believe there was. But that would not count as a direct replacement for Van Veen. Would we run with 5 strikers albeit Efford normally plays out wide. As well as incoming players I am surprised that we have not heard yet where Max J is headed. Unless there are so many clubs to choose from ! Still hope he goes to a top league side for the benefit of our bank balance. However his stated desire to be nearer to 1st team action suggests otherwise. Looking forward to seeing who has won the race to sign Steven Fletcher. Assuming it is either ourselves or St Mirren expect the fans of the club losing out to rationalise it with we could do better or over the hill comments etc etc. I hope it us. As I think we could get a good turn out of him as we have done with the likes of Watt and Higdon etc. Also anything that annoys the buddies is a bonus. I just wonder if he thinks I would rather replace Main than Van Veen. Comparisons with the former would likely be more favourable. Anyone following on from Van Veen….. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 15 minutes ago, welldaft said: I just wonder if he thinks I would rather replace Main than Van Veen. Comparisons with the former would likely be more favourable. Anyone following on from Van Veen….. I'd hope he's not replacing KVV if he comes to us either, he should be seen as a replacement for Mandron with Obika back up to that role. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 11 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said: I don't blame SB as he was asked the question but that's hardly a Pulitzer in the waiting, you'd have been utterly amazed if there wasn't news this week! Aye - granted it's not exactly Woodward and Bernstein but on a micro level it's mildly interesting if we start to see some sort of movement given the timing. The manager has just had a week away with the squad, we're clearly in the market for a couple of bodies, beyond Fletcher we've not really been linked with anyone and there are still unresolved questions over a couple of players from last year's squad etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 21 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said: I'd hope he's not replacing KVV if he comes to us either, he should be seen as a replacement for Mandron with Obika back up to that role. Fletcher was apparently on £6k per week at United. At most we could afford £2k or £3k if we push the boat out. I would presume he would be our top earner next only to Kelly. So if he does join that would be the Van Veen role filled for sure. I would be very surprised if we end up getting another striker, especially if we sign the lad from Beith also. Unless we manage to move Shields on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, welldaft said: Fletcher was apparently on £6k per week at United. At most we could afford £2k or £3k if we push the boat out. I would presume he would be our top earner next only to Kelly. So if he does join that would be the Van Veen role filled for sure. I would be very surprised if we end up getting another striker, especially if we sign the lad from Beith also. Unless we manage to move Shields on. Time will tell but for me that'd be a huge risk. It's one thing not expecting KVV2 to hit 20+ goals, another altogether to deliberately sign someone known for being a good player but not a good goalscorer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, welldaft said: Fletcher was apparently on £6k per week at United. At most we could afford £2k or £3k if we push the boat out. I would presume he would be our top earner next only to Kelly. So if he does join that would be the Van Veen role filled for sure. I would be very surprised if we end up getting another striker, especially if we sign the lad from Beith also. Unless we manage to move Shields on. I would imagine we are looking at a squad of 22 with 2 players for each position and supplementing with youth players if required. That being the case there will undoubtedly need to be some of our current squad going out the door if we are looking to freshen things up. Kelly / Oxborough SOD / McGinn / Bevis Butcher/ Blaney / Lamie McGinley / Miller / Slattery Spittal / Tierney Efford / Paton Obika / Shields / Fowler Probably raises serious questions over the future of Danzaki and Maguire as I dont see where there is a place for them in a trimmed down squad, and thats before we even look at getting a replacement for Goss. I would suggest we need to be looking at 2 full backs, 1 centre back, 1 midfielder and 1 striker. Some of the younger boys may end up taking those spaces if we cant move anyone on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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