Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Graham Alexander has finished higher in the top flight than any St Mirren manager since 1985

[Ron Aldo]

Already disappointed with yesterday's result but if Celtic go out and with Rangers looking less than convincing, it's looking worse by the minute. 

[Allroy for Prez]

8 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Already disappointed with yesterday's result but if Celtic go out and with Rangers looking less than convincing, it's looking worse by the minute. 

Totally. Although we don’t look like a cup winning team in fairness. 

There’s also no way we’re beating Killie next week either. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Allroy for Prez

[Handsome_Devil]

8 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Totally. Although we don’t look like a cup winning team in fairness. 

True but that's the nature of most surprise cup winning teams, they don't look anything special until they are. St Mirren, County, Killie etc all won with teams which were basically mid-table stodge. Even our heroes of 91 had essentially totally blown a very promising start to the season and were sinking rapidly until falling into the magic dust.

Which brings us back to the point, given you need to be exceptionally lucky to even come close to winning something, ffs don't tear up your ticket before the raffle is drawn.

[Busta Nut]

I really hate this "we had a chance" type patter than comes about whenever we go out a cup. We didn't beat St Mirren. We're out. We won't have beaten one of the better teams either.

Our "chance" started with St Mirren and we failed.

[boozyBJ]

Agree. We’ve not won a cup in 30 years because others have. It’s up to us and quite frankly we don’t have the bottle to go against the bigger teams like other have. We shat it against St Mirren yesterday. What does that say?

[Stevie Kirk]

I think there are lots of factors involved which increase or decrease our chances. There will be a statto or two among us who can inform us better but by and large we don’t get diddy teams at home in the early rounds which builds up momentum. Invariably we get peer sides or big city clubs away from home . Perfect example this season where the so called seeded team gets drawn away to an unseeded team.

So I think by and large we don’t get much luck in the draws. However it’s not all down to luck and I’m not sure what the other intangible ingredients are given this has been going on for years under different management and with different squads.

Im also going to be a bit controversial here but more recently big Mugabi is a jinx. He’s had horror shows in most of these games. Off the top of my head St Mirren 4 each replay Hibs at home where he lasted less than 90 seconds and yesterdays abomination . You can add in his Sligo pass back that f* cked us in Europe. I’m sorry but he cannot be trusted. 
 

 

 

 

[welldaft]

I am genuinely not one for we have had bad luck stories but the league cup draws have well and truly fucked with us the last decade or so. Every time we are seeded we end up with genuinely one of the toughest draws. Meanwhile Rangers get home draws against lower league teams each and every year it seems.

Not only that every time Celtic or Rangers get knocked out we do too. Almost every time it would seem. If we got through yesterday Celtic would have won. 100%. This is not a woe is me, but we do seem to have some shit luck in cup draws.

Killie will be tough next week. They have added strength in depth which not is something we are able to afford to do it would appear. Not yet anyways. 

The point above regarding Mugabi is valid. Although he did have a very good game v Hibs. Just have to hope the good version turns up next weekend. No news on Biereth yet ? If he is injured for any length of time. I mean f**k me did someone step in front of a black cat or under a ladder recently

Edited August 20, 2023 by welldaft

[MurrayWell]

Was away for the weekend so missed the game, thought I'd check the thread to see how things went... 

[one m in Motherwell]

The reaction on here does seem to be a little OTT.  It’s the first time really that Kettlewell has had a blip - and tbh I’d much rather it happen in a cup game than the league.  

Still plenty of time in the window for movement which, you’d hope, would plug some of the fairly obvious gaps in the squad.

Killie won’t be any more or less difficult after Saturday, or after their result today.  I’d bet most of us wouldn’t have fancied us doing a great deal against Hibs the other week after their previous result either.

 

We go again, etc.

 

 

[CoF]

3 hours ago, Stevie Kirk said:

So I think by and large we don’t get much luck in the draws.

I've posted on this before. When it comes to who we meet in the finals luck has absolutely got its part to play. Since 2000 there's been 30 cup finals with Rangers or Celtic vs someone else and they've been beaten twice (Hibs and Killie). So they've lost 6.6% of those finals and we've met one of them in all four of ours. Not good. Also 6 of the 12 non-OF winners since 2000 didn't play Rangers or Celtic at any point. 

And despite all the banana skins that we've successfully broken our neck on over the years, our recent frequency of getting to finals is actually okay. Again, since 2000 we're on 4, St Mirren with 2, Kilmarnock 3, St Johnstone 3, Inverness 4. City clubs only marginally better - Aberdeen 5, Hearts 6 and  Hibs out in front with 8. Dundee have made 1, Falkirk 2. 

No idea if we have a worst record than others for going out in the early stages, or against teams we really should be beating, however it's pretty clear that we have been really unlucky in who we've played in the finals. In a parallel universe, Keith Lasley is a Scottish Cup winning captain. 

[CoF]

5 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said:

 tbh I’d much rather it happen in a cup game than the league.  

Totally agree with the rest of your post but....

 

[welldaft]

27 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said:

The reaction on here does seem to be a little OTT.  It’s the first time really that Kettlewell has had a blip - and tbh I’d much rather it happen in a cup game than the league.  

Still plenty of time in the window for movement which, you’d hope, would plug some of the fairly obvious gaps in the squad.

Killie won’t be any more or less difficult after Saturday, or after their result today.  I’d bet most of us wouldn’t have fancied us doing a great deal against Hibs the other week after their previous result either.

 

We go again, etc.

 

 

I am not sure what posts you are referring too. Not having a dig as such just I have not seen many OTT as you put it. Other than those rightly saying it was disappointing to lose the game and that Kettlewell maybe got a few things wrong. We did not play well but we only lost 1-0 and to a decent effort at that. 

Kettlewell has done an amazing job since he came in. We could realistically have been relegated last season. His stats so far are well above what you would expect us to achieve. 

I am prepared to cut him some slack as it seems he has come in and been told you are not getting that same budget as previous Managers before him. That is evident with outgoings v incomings. Genuinely if he gets us to mid table obscurity or a season without any relegation fears it will be job done. 

The fact we lost our 1st away game and our 1st game without scoring since he became Manager on 11th Feb says it all. 4 months in charge in terms of competitive action. 

Hopefully he can get some support to bolster the squad before the window closes. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by welldaft

[Stevie Kirk]

1 hour ago, CoF said:

I've posted on this before. When it comes to who we meet in the finals luck has absolutely got its part to play. Since 2000 there's been 30 cup finals with Rangers or Celtic vs someone else and they've been beaten twice (Hibs and Killie). So they've lost 6.6% of those finals and we've met one of them in all four of ours. Not good. Also 6 of the 12 non-OF winners since 2000 didn't play Rangers or Celtic at any point. 

And despite all the banana skins that we've successfully broken our neck on over the years, our recent frequency of getting to finals is actually okay. Again, since 2000 we're on 4, St Mirren with 2, Kilmarnock 3, St Johnstone 3, Inverness 4. City clubs only marginally better - Aberdeen 5, Hearts 6 and  Hibs out in front with 8. Dundee have made 1, Falkirk 2. 

No idea if we have a worst record than others for going out in the early stages, or against teams we really should be beating, however it's pretty clear that we have been really unlucky in who we've played in the finals. In a parallel universe, Keith Lasley is a Scottish Cup winning captain. 

Yep totally agree with this.

I’m not a stats man at all so I’m not sure my analysis will be correct but I’m working through all current Premier league teams by recording all their knockout ties home and away for the past 10 years and just for fun I am giving them a difficulty rating based on percentage of knockout ties v city clubs .
 

I have done Well, Hibs and Rangers tonight ,  will try and post it all in the next day or so .Our “score” is highest so far, and that’s before I’ve loaded in weighting for finances……

[one m in Motherwell]

8 hours ago, CoF said:

Totally agree with the rest of your post but....

 

Aye, I guess I’m never particularly fussed about Cup games (probably due to years of underachievement)!

[For Your Pies Only]

15 hours ago, Allroy for Prez said:

There’s also no way we’re beating Killie next week either. 

Killie will be organised, tough to break down and will try to hit on the counter with pace. McInnes has also recruited well. But they aren't miles ahead of us, and it's certainly not a given they'll pump us next weekend. Both of the old firm put in lazy, flat performances against them and they failed to score against a porous Hearts defence that gifted them plenty of opportunities. Likewise we're not suddenly terrible because of a poor performance in the cup.

We are two (2) games into a league season and on 4 points. Let's maybe give it a few more games before we start the ritual gnashing of teeth eh

[Dosser1886]

1 hour ago, one m in Motherwell said:

Aye, I guess I’m never particularly fussed about Cup games (probably due to years of underachievement)!

Agree with you here, his focus will be the league and he has to be able to try something different and introduce some of the new guys at some point and this was it. Didn't work out so will have infomed him in competitive game what he needs to work on. Just had to happen in front of an incredible away support. I always get the fears when we take a big support to an away cup game.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Dosser1886

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

We were beaten by a team who scored an early goal against us and then managed the game, with us struggling to break us down. We've seen that storyline develop countless times in the past - even when we've been doing well.

Again, as someone too young to remember 1991, I'm a tad disappointed that our chances of silverware this season are halved before August is out. However, I thinking back to when Raith Rovers beat us in February, we were in the doledrums and the thought of being in contention, or even a cup run seemed miles away.

We obviously then had our revival in the league last season, but we are now trying to start again without five (Johnston, Furlong, Butcher, Goss & Van Veen) players who were key to our form there and we've done alright with that so far, Saturday aside.

My only real gripe is over the selection in defence. Mugabi, lovely big chap, but he's had problems under four managers now. I don't know if Kettlewell doesn't want to lose Casey's influence as a right or left sided centre-back, or whether he thinks he's not up to it in the centre, but surely among all our centre-back options, we must have one who's a better fit in there. I'd even prefer Lamie to start in there. I'd also like a left-back before the end of the window. Souare obviously has a record of being injury-prone and our first thought upon him being out is to stick McGinn out there, that definitely shows there is no faith in Wilson or McGinley. 

[capt_oats]

4 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

We were beaten by a team who scored an early goal against us and then managed the game, with us struggling to break us down. We've seen that storyline develop countless times in the past - even when we've been doing well.

Again, as someone too young to remember 1991, I'm a tad disappointed that our chances of silverware this season are halved before August is out. However, I thinking back to when Raith Rovers beat us in February, we were in the doledrums and the thought of being in contention, or even a cup run seemed miles away.

We obviously then had our revival in the league last season, but we are now trying to start again without five (Johnston, Furlong, Butcher, Goss & Van Veen) players who were key to our form there and we've done alright with that so far, Saturday aside.

My only real gripe is over the selection in defence. Mugabi, lovely big chap, but he's had problems under four managers now. I don't know if Kettlewell doesn't want to lose Casey's influence as a right or left sided centre-back, or whether he thinks he's not up to it in the centre, but surely among all our centre-back options, we must have one who's a better fit in there. I'd even prefer Lamie to start in there. I'd also like a left-back before the end of the window. Souare obviously has a record of being injury-prone and our first thought upon him being out is to stick McGinn out there, that definitely shows there is no faith in Wilson or McGinley. 

This was actually my main takeaway from Saturday tbh.

I mean, when I saw the line-up my assumption was that Blaney would just get a shot at LWB rather than McGinn being shuffled out there.

To completely rejig the defence was...instructive. There's a lot to parse from that particular choice IMO.

[Stevie Kirk]

49 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

We were beaten by a team who scored an early goal against us and then managed the game, with us struggling to break us down. We've seen that storyline develop countless times in the past - even when we've been doing well.

Again, as someone too young to remember 1991, I'm a tad disappointed that our chances of silverware this season are halved before August is out. However, I thinking back to when Raith Rovers beat us in February, we were in the doledrums and the thought of being in contention, or even a cup run seemed miles away.

We obviously then had our revival in the league last season, but we are now trying to start again without five (Johnston, Furlong, Butcher, Goss & Van Veen) players who were key to our form there and we've done alright with that so far, Saturday aside.

My only real gripe is over the selection in defence. Mugabi, lovely big chap, but he's had problems under four managers now. I don't know if Kettlewell doesn't want to lose Casey's influence as a right or left sided centre-back, or whether he thinks he's not up to it in the centre, but surely among all our centre-back options, we must have one who's a better fit in there. I'd even prefer Lamie to start in there. I'd also like a left-back before the end of the window. Souare obviously has a record of being injury-prone and our first thought upon him being out is to stick McGinn out there, that definitely shows there is no faith in Wilson or McGinley. 

It’s a small sample size but based on Lamies calamitous performance at QOS he isn’t the answer either. Both Mugabi and Lamie are nearly great defenders but their repeated momentary brain farts invariably lead to goals.

I expected Mugabi to completely dominate Mandron ( as no doubt did SK) but it was the complete opposite. Can’t bring myself to watch the highlights but I recall him making a complete schoolboy mess of a bread and butter ball on the halfway line in the second half which almost lead to a goal. 
 

There must be other guys out there we could bring in - What’s big Shaun Hutchison up to these days?