Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[dezz]

I was wondering if anyone on here get the chance to regularly watch the Under 20’s?

 

I only get to see the highlights on YouTube and after another great result tonight it really looks like we have some players that could make an impact on the first team in the near future - albeit I’m judging this on highlights only.

 

McGuire, Turnbull, Gordon, Livingstone and Hastie all look very capable and have all, with the exception of Hastie I think, already made their debuts in the first team.

 

Added to that we have Scott, Semple and Agyeman who I believe are only 16/17 and already look comfortable and up to the physical challenge of playing against guys up to 4 years older.

 

Just wondering if anyone who has a bit more insight into the 20’s can give a more detailed opinion and if there’s anyone else we should be keeping our eyes on?

 

[capt_oats]

39 minutes ago, dezz said:

I was wondering if anyone on here get the chance to regularly watch the Under 20’s?

I only get to see the highlights on YouTube and after another great result tonight it really looks like we have some players that could make an impact on the first team in the near future - albeit I’m judging this on highlights only.

McGuire, Turnbull, Gordon, Livingstone and Hastie all look very capable and have all, with the exception of Hastie I think, already made their debuts in the first team.

Added to that we have Scott, Semple and Agyeman who I believe are only 16/17 and already look comfortable and up to the physical challenge of playing against guys up to 4 years older.

Just wondering if anyone who has a bit more insight into the 20’s can give a more detailed opinion and if there’s anyone else we should be keeping our eyes on?

I used to go and watch the 20s regularly but haven't been as much as the home fixtures have been moved to Stirling this season. I've been to a few of the matches they've played at the Excelsior though. Last one I made it along to was the recent shoeing they took off Dundee where they were 5-1 down at half time in what was a hilarious clusterfuck of a performance.

The ones you've mentioned in bold are really the stand outs. I'm a huge fan of David Turnbull, he's got pretty much everything first touch, range of passing, vision and he can ping shots into the top corner from 30 yards on a fairly regular basis. It's also interesting that he's been given the captaincy too. The only real doubt, and Craigan mentions it in the post match. is the physical side of the game. He more than held his own in the centre of the park in the Irn Bru Cup win against Queens Park earlier in the season. In fact he absolutely bodied one of their midfielders in an arial challenge and the boy had to be subbed off injured. He also seemed to compete well against Crusaders if the highlights are anything to go by. Having said all that he's not someone who'll chase and harry nor is he particularly quick.

I've said it on here before but to me Turnbull's just a natural footballer.

Jake Hastie's the other one who genuinely deserves a first team shout. It's just unfortunate that he's on loan at Airdrie just now so isn't eligible to play. He made his debut last season at Parkhead when McGhee was manager btw (and subsequently played vs Hearts and against Killie). I've noticed he's picked up a few MOTM awards in the past few weeks and transfermarkt  is showing him with 4 goals and 4 assists in 25 appearances at League 1 level.

He was pretty prolific for the u20s last season I think he ended up with 14 goals or something like that. He's just a cracking player. I know Mackin scored for fun at Dev league level but there's so much more to Hastie's game IMO.

Aside from the ones you've mentioned Kyle MacDonald is another who's been promoted up from the Academy at the same time as Semple (and has also represented Scotland in the age groups). Liam Brown who we signed during the summer from Queens Park looks like quite a tidy player too (he's the wee ginger #6 in the highlights from earlier).

Edited April 23, 2018 by capt_oats

[dezz]

Cheers Capt, useful stuff.

I must say, every time I’ve watched the highlights it’s been Turnbull that has caught my eye, everything looks effortless when he’s on the ball. He seems to have done well in recent Scotland age group fixtures too.

Hopefully Robinson can adapt our gameplay slightly for in future to play a bit more football to suite guys like Turnbull, although I wonder if maybe a 6 month loan would be more beneficial to get him some sustained game time at senior level.

Ah, I was wondering who the ginger guy was. I’ve heard Craigan talk about him a number of times in a positive light.

Hopefully these guys can play more of a role in the first team next year as being honest has Petravicius offered any more than Hastie would have? And at least Livingstone has been fit unlike long term Thunderdome victim Ellis Plummer.

Certainly looks like a good few have the ability to step up and I’m hoping to see a few given a few minutes here and there over the next few weeks.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

There is a good case to be made that Turnbull should be playing now. If we are going to wrap Main in cotton wool I don't see the issue of having Turnbull play off the striker.  Any time I've seen him he looks like a natural box to box midfielder and a decent finisher.  And a class above most in the U20s.

 

[capt_oats]

3 minutes ago, dezz said:

Cheers Capt, useful stuff.

I must say, every time I’ve watched the highlights it’s been Turnbull that has caught my eye, everything looks effortless when he’s on the ball. He seems to have done well in recent Scotland age group fixtures too.

Hopefully Robinson can adapt our gameplay slightly for in future to play a bit more football to suite guys like Turnbull, although I wonder if maybe a 6 month loan would be more beneficial to get him some sustained game time at senior level.

Ah, I was wondering who the ginger guy was. I’ve heard Craigan talk about him a number of times in a positive light.

Hopefully these guys can play more of a role in the first team next year as being honest has Petravicius offered any more than Hastie would have? And at least Livingstone has been fit unlike long term Thunderdome victim Ellis Plummer.

Certainly looks like a good few have the ability to step up and I’m hoping to see a few given a few minutes here and there over the next few weeks.

That's the trade off though I suppose. Assuming transfermarkt's numbers are correct then Hastie's played almost 3 times as many minutes (x 2.70) as Petravicius and Newell combined who have played 623 mins between them. Hastie's played 1,685 mins as a result of his loan.

You'd think that would be far more beneficial to his development than cutting about on the fringes of our first team. It's the same argument with Turnbull. I agree that a loan would probably have been beneficial but then it'd have to have been the right club.

Craigan's done a cracking job with the 20s and FWIW there seems to be a fair amount of joined up thinking between the coaching staff. Robinson, Hinchcliffe and (I think) Lasley were all at the Dundee game a few weeks back sat with Craigan in the stand.

Given Robinson's almost constant refrain had been about "character" and "attitude" it was interesting to hear Craigan praising Hastie and Livingstone's attitude and willingness to play seeing as they'd been playing for their loan clubs at the weekend.

[Desp]

9 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Having said all that he's not someone who'll chase and harry nor is he particularly quick.

I've said it on here before but to me Turnbull's just a natural footballer.

Very interesting.  I'm not one for watching the 20s, so all I can really go on is the rave reviews he's been getting.

However, the part I've quoted could also be used to describe Gael Bigirimana.  He doesn't get a game for us, so will someone like Turnbull fit in with how Robinson wants to play?

[Casagolda]

34 minutes ago, Desp said:

Very interesting.  I'm not one for watching the 20s, so all I can really go on is the rave reviews he's been getting.

However, the part I've quoted could also be used to describe Gael Bigirimana.  He doesn't get a game for us, so will someone like Turnbull fit in with how Robinson wants to play?

Probably not.  

However, this season we’ve played 34 league games and have only managed to score more than once in 12 of them. We’ve failed to score altogether in 11 games and have only managed to score more than 2 goals in a single game once all season- 3-0 against Thistle back in September.

Robinson’s certainly sorterd out the defensive side of things but going forward our use of the ball is generally pretty poor. To be fair I have seen Robinson acknowledge this and  going forward it seems he wants improve our use of the ball, without going to far away from what’s made us successful this season. 

Thing is, when we had Ciftci/Tanner(plus Frear) in the team and got the ball down we actually looked quite good at times and played some decent stuff. However our default setting seems to be low risk hoofball.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Casagolda

[dezz]

Robinson certainly has sorted out the defensive side of things which was badly needed following last years shambles.

Now that we have Carson, Tait, Dunne, Kipre and Hartley all signed up for another 2 years I hope this solid base, ignoring any possible transfer departures, will allow Robinson to develop a slightly more attractive style of play without moving away from the high intensity game that has been successful this year.

Some tinkering in the midfield and upfront should hopefully be all that’s required this summer.

[thisGRAEME]

Turnbull suddenly looks a much bigger human.

Get him sparring wi Curtis Main.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

Very interesting.  I'm not one for watching the 20s, so all I can really go on is the rave reviews he's been getting.

However, the part I've quoted could also be used to describe Gael Bigirimana.  He doesn't get a game for us, so will someone like Turnbull fit in with how Robinson wants to play?

Glad you said that because for me it pretty much nails the disconnect.

I'm paraphrasing here but Craigan was saying post-match the other week that the manager is coming to watch the 20s and he's looking at them for his first team. It's up to the 20s to look at the first team and ask what it is the manager is looking for and whether they're doing what he's after.

I've been borderline evangelical about Turnbull, largely because he's exactly the sort of midfielder I like. Central midfielders who can dictate tempo and ping 30-40 yard passes about the park are very much my thing. Huge fan of that sort of stuff. 

However most of his game has centred around getting the ball in the middle of the park and picking passes. He's not really shown himself to be a dynamic midfielder in the Pearson mould or to go further back O'Donnell when he broke into the team and was going box to box. In fact if there's a criticism to be levelled at Turnbull it's probably that he's too one-paced.

Craigan actually highlights it at 2:00 in his interview yesterday: "I thought David Turnbull was as good as he's been. I thought David looked a man amongst boys today. Just the way he ran with the ball and the way he got in possession of it, his running power up and down the pitch. That's always been our wee question mark over David."

The 2nd goal yesterday where he intercepts the pass in midfield, drives forward and gets beyond Semple to get the pass and the shot off with Hastie finishing the rebound, that's exactly the sort of thing he hasn't been doing but shows that he can. His role in the goal was quite reminiscent of Pearson ie: picking the ball up and driving from the middle of the park. Same with the chance at 2:20 where Semple could have squared to him. He's made up about 60 yards to get to the edge of the box. 

Ultimately I think that's the answer to the question, it's up to the guys in the u20s to not only show their natural game but also that they can adapt and develop what they do to fit in with what Robinson and the coaching staff are after.

That comment from Craigan suggests they're saying to them; "we know you can do that but to get into the first team this is what we're asking you to add to your game. Can you do it?"

Edited April 24, 2018 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

1 hour ago, dezz said:

Robinson certainly has sorted out the defensive side of things which was badly needed following last years shambles.

Now that we have Carson, Tait, Dunne, Kipre and Hartley all signed up for another 2 years I hope this solid base, ignoring any possible transfer departures, will allow Robinson to develop a slightly more attractive style of play without moving away from the high intensity game that has been successful this year.

Some tinkering in the midfield and upfront should hopefully be all that’s required this summer.

Pretty much. 

Seems like for the first time in a long time, the summer won’t be a massive rebuilding job. The solid base is their to build from and for me, it should all be about trying to add a bit of quality to the team(although Robinson seems keen to add depth to the squad as well). 

A partner for Main, a proper left wing back and a creative central midfielder would be top of my list of priorities.

Although you could argue guys like Turnbull and Livingstone could potentially be lined up for two of those roles next season, however it remains to be seen if they’ll actually get the chance. 

[Del_Superwell]

Daily record appears to be hinting today that Curtis Main could actually face Dundee this weekend so that's certainly very promising news.

[well fan for life]

11 minutes ago, Del_Superwell said:

Daily record appears to be hinting today that Curtis Main could actually face Dundee this weekend so that's certainly very promising news.

I never really doubted he'd be out long. I'd expect he'll have some kind of splint on it but will battle on through it.

[capt_oats]

Absolutely sensational patter here lads.

 

[Al B]

I'm not on Twitter....what the chat with that? Did Kante actually send him his top?

[capt_oats]

I'm not on Twitter....what the chat with that? Did Kante actually send him his top?

Looks like it. There’s a signature on the shirt. I’d guess it’ll be Kipré with the hook-up. IIRC he and Kante were housemates at Leicester (or something like that).

Actually they were. Here’s the article (apologies for The Sun link): https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/1472236/cedric-kipre-ngolo-kante-motherwell-leicester-city-inspiration/

[Al B]

Brilliant!

[Phillips455]

Scottish cup final tickets go on sale this friday 27th

 

£30 adults

£15 conessions.

15,000 avilable. Well society/season ticket holders give priority

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 4/24/2018 at 09:43, dezz said:

Robinson certainly has sorted out the defensive side of things which was badly needed following last years shambles.

Now that we have Carson, Tait, Dunne, Kipre and Hartley all signed up for another 2 years I hope this solid base, ignoring any possible transfer departures, will allow Robinson to develop a slightly more attractive style of play without moving away from the high intensity game that has been successful this year.

Some tinkering in the midfield and upfront should hopefully be all that’s required this summer.

I heard Robinson saying that in Main he had found his successor to Louis Moult and I just thought that was completely wrong.  I like Main, but for me he should be the successor to Bowman - who's been given a new contract off 7 league goals in two seasons.

For me that tells you a lot about Robinson's philosophy of football - the style he likes and how it's not going to change much.

Also given the club model the likelihood is we will sell players some of our better players during the summer.  Wouldn't be surprised if Carson went for a start.

I sincerely hope we win the cup but even if we win it I can't see how anyone wouldn't be concerned about the last 7 or 8 months of league football.  The precedent is there with St. Mirren and Inverness. 

And a full season of this terms Moult-less Motherwell will see us in a bad place unless we improve dramatically.  I mean we've scored 14 goals in 19 matches (including an OG and a penalty) and won 3 league matches since Moult last played at the beginning of December. 

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I think it was capt_oats that mentioned his availability recently,and I really think somebody equivalent to 2012 Nicky Law would be a fantastic signing. If we could use some of the increased windfall this year to bring in a quality creative midfielder who also has the legs to get up and down the park and press the opposition- i.e, not Gael Bigirimana- then it would massively improve our midfield. 

Those players aren't exactly ten a penny though.

Edited April 25, 2018 by YassinMoutaouakil