Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[eliphas]

19 minutes ago, fat_tony said:

I may need the tinfoil hat but I thought Bevis was the best of the back three in the first half last night. Casey was shaky as hell and lost in no man's land for the first goal, while McGinn was caught out by his man. McGinn at least recovered with a couple of great last ditch challenges.

At half time I felt Mugabi was a bit hard done by being the one taken off, although I can fully understand why Kettlewell wanted Butcher on to organise the defence.

All the back 3 were shite in the first half. 

McGinn lost his man a number of times, Mugabi wandered out and got out muscled a load of times and Casey just seemed to try a bit to hard and miss things. 

I get what you mean but Mugabi out and Butcher in the same location made most sense to me 

[eliphas]

19 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

It’s a fair point.

I mean, if you score 3 goals at home v Ross County you would be forgiven for thinking you’d win that game and likewise, 2 v Aberdeen would see you hopefully take at least a point. 

The defence has not been great at times this but I didn’t see us conceding 7  goals in 2 games. It’s been a total collapse. 

Committing both wingbacks, two or three midfielders and the striker is leaving us too open during games during an attack. Great to see when we overwhelm defences. But when we don't other teams can kill us. Happened last night a couple of times for goals.

Last night really was an absolute clusterfuck in every department - tactics, performance, refereeing. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by eliphas

[welldaft]

The defence was poor make no mistake and that may well account for some of the reasoning behind Kelly’s shaky form. But as of now Kelly is sitting in 12th place out of 12 in Save %. Watching him in the last two games that does not come as a surprise. 

Question is - as captain and an Internationalist is he undroppable ?  We don’t actually know how good or bad Oxborough is. I would be sorely tempted to give him a start. But I doubt we will see it…..

Edited November 2, 2023 by welldaft

['WellDel]

A few shouts re. changes for Killie that I'm fully on board with.

I'd 100% not be risking Butcher on that surface and would be more than happy to see Blaney given a shot at the back in front of Mugabi. If Kettlewell isn't keen on starting Gent and we're going to persist with playing a wingback out of position, I'd at least swap Spencer onto his preferred right hand side and put O'Donnell left where he's done ok in the past. 

In the middle I'd agree with @Busta Nut and give Davor a start. Miller is going to need to be managed well in his breakthrough season and missing out when we're on a bad run and confidence is low is the right time to rest him.

Up front, if we're going to stick with one up top I'd much rather have Mika on from the start for a solid hour to give us a fighting chance of getting our noses in front, rather than throwing him on as a hail Mary when  games are all but gone.

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I'm sure Arsenal recalled Harry Clarke halfway through his Ross County loan to send him to Hibs then ended that early for him to go to Stoke.

I've got the fear.

Edited November 2, 2023 by YassinMoutaouakil

[eliphas]

11 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

A few shouts re. changes for Killie that I'm fully on board with.

I'd 100% not be risking Butcher on that surface and would be more than happy to see Blaney given a shot at the back in front of Mugabi. If Kettlewell isn't keen on starting Gent and we're going to persist with playing a wingback out of position, I'd at least swap Spencer onto his preferred right hand side and put O'Donnell left where he's done ok in the past. 

In the middle I'd agree with @Busta Nut and give Davor a start. Miller is going to need to be managed well in his breakthrough season and missing out when we're on a bad run and confidence is low is the right time to rest him.

Up front, if we're going to stick with one up top I'd much rather have Mika on from the start for a solid hour to give us a fighting chance of getting our noses in front, rather than throwing him on as a hail Mary when  games are all but gone.

 

If we aren't playing Butcher because of the park, then I can't see us playing/being allowed to play Mika either. Which on both counts would be absolutely gutting.  

I'd not change from the back 5, as I think we need the width and it's the only place we can get it because we jetissoned everyone else during the purge. 

Spencer McGinn Butcher Casey Gent 

Davor

Spittal Miller Slattery

Bair Mika

Gent would get us forward, and hopefully Davor and and aggressive Butcher could fill the defensive gap he might leave vs SOD playing there. I'm willing to give Slattery a chance because if his form before the Dons game but he infuriated me the other night.

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by eliphas

[well again]

31 minutes ago, eliphas said:

If we aren't playing Butcher because of the park, then I can't see us playing/being allowed to play Mika either. Which on both counts would be absolutely gutting.  

I'd not change from the back 5, as I think we need the width and it's the only place we can get it because we jetissoned everyone else during the purge. 

Spencer McGinn Butcher Casey Gent 

Davor

Spittal Miller Slattery

Bair Mika

Gent would get us forward, and hopefully Davor and and aggressive Butcher could fill the defensive gap he might leave vs SOD playing there. I'm willing to give Slattery a chance because if his form before the Dons game but he infuriated me the other night.

 

I think you are being unfair on Harry Paton as he has been consistent all season unlike Slattery or spittal.

[Handsome_Devil]

56 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Gent would get us forward, and hopefully Davor and and aggressive Butcher could fill the defensive gap he might leave vs SOD playing there. I'm willing to give Slattery a chance because if his form before the Dons game but he infuriated me the other night.

 

I can see us rolling the dice on Davor but if we throw Gent in against Armstrong or Kennedy on that pitch he'll do well to make HT. There's a number of changes SK can contemplate, most of them marginal TBF, but if that's one of them I'll eat my metaphical hat.

[Marinello]

25 minutes ago, well again said:

I think you are being unfair on Harry Paton as he has been consistent all season unlike Slattery or spittal.

Agree. On what was a pitiful night on Wednesday, Paton was the only player imho who did well.

[Desp]

1 hour ago, eliphas said:

I'd not change from the back 5, as I think we need the width and it's the only place we can get it because we jetissoned everyone else during the purge. 

Spencer McGinn Butcher Casey Gent 

Davor

Spittal Miller Slattery

Bair Mika

 

42 minutes ago, well again said:

I think you are being unfair on Harry Paton as he has been consistent all season unlike Slattery or spittal.

I think he's being unfair on Kilmarnock as he's got us playing with 12-men in a 5-4-2...

We'd probably still get beat.

[Casagolda]

52 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I can see us rolling the dice on Davor but if we throw Gent in against Armstrong or Kennedy on that pitch he'll do well to make HT. There's a number of changes SK can contemplate, most of them marginal TBF, but if that's one of them I'll eat my metaphical hat.

See to be fair to Gent..

Against Livi we were 2-0 down and down to 10 men when he came. Likewise against County, we were 2-0 and chasing the game when he came on.

In both games we’d lost all shape by the time he’d came on and were just chucking bodies forward. We’ve not actually given him a shot in that lwb role at the start of a game when there’s at least some semblance of balance and shape to the team.

I’m not sure he could possibly be any worse than Spencer and O’Donnell have been these last few games. Both have been poor defensively and offered little going forward. 

At the very least, he might offer us some pace and an out ball. He also couldn’t possibly do worse defensively than the senior pro’s that've chucked in 7 goals in the last couple of matches.  

Edited November 3, 2023 by Casagolda

[Allroy for Prez]

4 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

See to be fair to Gent..

Against Livi we were 2-0 down and down to 10 men when he came. Likewise against County, we were 2-0 and chasing the game when he came on.

In both games we’d lost all shape by the time he’d came on and were just chucking bodies forward. We’ve not actually given him a shot in that lwb role at the start of a game when there’s at least some semblance of balance and shape to the team.

I’m not sure he could possibly be any worse than Spencer and O’Donnell have been these last few games. Both have been poor defensively and offered little going forward. 

At the very least, he might offer us some pace and an out ball. He also couldn’t possibly do worse defensively than the senior pro’s that've chucked in 7 goals in the last couple of matches.  

100%
 

There are options in defence, even if we don’t risk Butcher on that pitch. I wouldn’t be adverse to swapping Casey for Blaney.

If we line up the exact same at the back v Killie then I’m going to be even more worried than I already am. 

[MP_MFC]

3 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

. He also couldn’t possibly do worse defensively than the senior pro’s that've chucked in 7 goals in the last couple of matches.  

I mean, he really could. For the life of me I can’t remember the boys name but we chucked a youngster in at left back -coincidentally against Killie - a few years back and he was roasted and subbed in the first half basically never to be seen again. 
 

Assuming something unknown couldn’t possibly be worse than a known quantity is peak football fan logic. 

[well fan for life]

6 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

I mean, he really could. For the life of me I can’t remember the boys name but we chucked a youngster in at left back -coincidentally against Killie - a few years back and he was roasted and subbed in the first half basically never to be seen again. 
 

Assuming something unknown couldn’t possibly be worse than a known quantity is peak football fan logic. 

David Ferguson. Jones just about ended his career and he got hooked after about half an hour. 

[Al B]

5 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

David Ferguson. Jones just about ended his career and he got hooked after about half an hour. 

I still think about that sometimes. That, and watching Chris Humphrey systematically giving Danny Grainger PTSD, are the sorriest I've ever felt for a footballer.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Al B

[Casagolda]

13 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

I mean, he really could. For the life of me I can’t remember the boys name but we chucked a youngster in at left back -coincidentally against Killie - a few years back and he was roasted and subbed in the first half basically never to be seen again. 

Assuming something unknown couldn’t possibly be worse than a known quantity is peak football fan logic. 

We lost 3 goals on Saturday and another 4 goals on Wednesday, unless Killie stick 5 past us the morrow then I genuinely don’t think Georgie could do much worse.

Mind last season folk were writing Furlong off after his shaky first few appearances? Look how good he turned out to be in the end. I’m not saying this lads a world beater by any means but from what I’ve seen and been told he’s certainly got something about him.

My main point was judging him based on two cameo appearances when the team was a shambles and had lost all sense of shape by the time he came on is slightly harsh and doing the lad a disservice. 

[MP_MFC]

7 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

David Ferguson. Jones just about ended his career and he got hooked after about half an hour. 

That’s the fella. Knew it was David but had David Devine in my head but knew it was wrong. 

Adam Livingstone was also the next great thing that never got a shot and then when he did it was found out why. 

[MP_MFC]

1 minute ago, Casagolda said:

We lost 3 goals on Saturday and another 4 goals on Wednesday, unless Killie stick 5 past us the morrow then I genuinely don’t think Georgie could do much worse.

Mind last season folk were writing Furlong off after his shaky first few appearances? Look how good he turned out to be in the end. I’m not saying this lads a world beater by any means but from what I’ve seen and been told he’s certainly got something about him.

My main point was judging him based on two cameo appearances when the team was a shambles and had lost all sense of shape by the time he came on is slightly harsh and doing the lad a disservice. 

Indeed but chucking a very unproven guy who has shown defensive frailty in to the clown show in defence in a game that is a must not lose would, arguably, also do him a misservice.

I’d be looking to sort out the centre backs or going to a flat back 4 before tinkering with another unproven wingback.  

[MurrayWell]

Folk just forgetting the third goal Ross County scored against us?

Edited November 3, 2023 by MurrayWell

[eliphas]

1 hour ago, Marinello said:

Agree. On what was a pitiful night on Wednesday, Paton was the only player imho who did well.

 

2 hours ago, well again said:

I think you are being unfair on Harry Paton as he has been consistent all season unlike Slattery or spittal.

Possibly. It's a bit of a toss up in midfield for me to be quite honest but they call can't play in the system I think we should go with especially with wee Davor coming in, which I think is a shout. 

Spittal, Slattery, Miller and Paton all played really well to begin with during the 'golden era of the midfield 4 box' and all of them have not quite got to those heights for a while for different reasons.

Paton, I think is actually better pushed further forward than trying to play the sitting midfielder role. But he probably does the hard side of the sitting role better than Miller. 

Choices choices.