Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[well fan for life]

The difference in how much more comfortable Spencer looks on the right is staggering. Surely it's worth giving him and Gent a go at some point ffs.

What we're seeing is the accumulation of how badly run we are as a club. We've let a number of crucial roles in running any sort of company go and done hee haw to replace them. You can't let your CEO go, botch the replacement process and then name a guy as interim that we hear bugger all from. Lasley leaving at the same time as a guy who seemingly held squads together also doesn't help.

We could sack Kettlewell but we've tried that 3 times in the past few years and it's papered over the cracks. It's simply unsustainable.

[Allroy for Prez]

15 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Off the top of my head I don't think there's ever been a point during this run where we've played what you'd call a conventional 3-5-2 with Spencer on the right, Gent on the left and Biereth up top with Bair? 

I'm not saying any of them are world beaters- except Mika, maybe- or that it would solve the problems at CB or in midfield but it's mental to me that it never seems to have crossed his mind to try and replicate the "dynamic fullbacks, good striker next to a big lump" approach that got him the job last season. It seems like it would be less hassle than playing three strikers and Spittal at wingback.

 

 

If he’d done or was doing that then you’d have to say that was at least something.
 

My concerns re Kettlewell’s summer signings had red flags going up everywhere and I’m sadly been proven right. Bair should never have been signed in the first place.  The stats were screaming at us! Wilkinson, Obika, Shaw are not even worth a place on the bench. If we continue to have play these guys at any point we will not stay in the division. None of them have even of modicum of ability that will see them contribute anything positive. They are simply not good enough. Davor has been an absolute waste of a signing if he still can’t get a game during this current malaise. Going into the season with O’Donnell as a starter is going exactly how I thought it would. We were happy with Casey re-signing in fairness but he’s been poor like everyone else now. The return of Butcher has actually seen us look worse. 

To compound that we’re now seeing Spittal at LWB, Wilkinson and Bair as widemen in a front 3 playing miles apart, he’s continuing to play under performing players. Not at least trying Spencer and Gent in their correct positions (especially after Gent whipping in that assist on Tuesday!) Mugabi up front today…… the list goes on. 
 

Kettlewell is in the final days with us. He’s not turning this around. We should act now while the season is still saveable. 

[Swello]

15 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

The difference in how much more comfortable Spencer looks on the right is staggering. Surely it's worth giving him and Gent a go at some point ffs.

What we're seeing is the accumulation of how badly run we are as a club. We've let a number of crucial roles in running any sort of company go and done hee haw to replace them. You can't let your CEO go, botch the replacement process and then name a guy as interim that we hear bugger all from. Lasley leaving at the same time as a guy who seemingly held squads together also doesn't help.

We could sack Kettlewell but we've tried that 3 times in the past few years and it's papered over the cracks. It's simply unsustainable.

Agree with all of this regarding the running of things - but just in normal football terms, I'm still fairly stunned that we're at the "lost the plot team/formation and Bevis up front" stage in early November.

 

[Swami]

Get Bevis back into the defence and play Butcher in midfield just now. Butcher has done f**k all to sort out the defence and the midfield is soft as shite at the moment. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Swami

[Swello]

On Butcher - he's been out long term and is probably, understandably short of sharpness - but we have gone from looking generally solid at the back to a total fucking mess and chucking him in as an instant starter to somehow fix that probably just emphasises desperation from the manager.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Can only echo what everyone else has said about playing players in formation. Aside from the last roll of the dice with Bevis, we finished the game with eleven players perfectly positioned, why can't we start like that?

A right footed centre half on the right, a left footed one on the left, actual wing backs on their correct sides. The same balance to the midfield as last season and two strikers.

Blair Spittal at left wing back is a joke. We might argue that we don't have the players to play 4-3-3 or whatever other formation, but I'm sure Spittal would much rather be left of a front three, than left of a back five.

I don't think he's getting the chop now, but Dundee at home is a must win after we've been to Celtic Park.

[weemac]

Sorry for dragging this off topic but I feel as though we've not had a post from @capt_oats in a while.

Anyone know if he's ok? Normally get a good well thought out post from him, hopefully he's alright

[fat_tony]

2 minutes ago, weemac said:

Sorry for dragging this off topic but I feel as though we've not had a post from @capt_oats in a while.

Anyone know if he's ok? Normally get a good well thought out post from him, hopefully he's alright

I had the same thought the other day. Hopefully he's just taking a break from the thread during this run.

[kingjoey]

11 minutes ago, weemac said:

Sorry for dragging this off topic but I feel as though we've not had a post from @capt_oats in a while.

Anyone know if he's ok? Normally get a good well thought out post from him, hopefully he's alright

He reacted to some posts yesterday.

[Phillips455]

Pray for whoever is bidding for the match worn shirt from today's match. I don't think they will be in the right state of mind to have a permanent memory of the game.

[weemac]

29 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

He reacted to some posts yesterday.

So he did, cheers. Can only assume even he can't find words to express how much out form has fallen off a cliff

[welldaft]

Kettlewell will get December to sort this mess out. And to be fair he should. 

We were as good as relegated last season before he came in and performed a minor miracle. 

We have very important games v 4 teams of similar size / budgets etc. If he can get 7 or more points then he should stay in position. We don’t want to be replacing Managers every year.

However that today was an abomination. Losing to Hearts in of itself is no disgrace given budget disparity. But again the formation was so obviously wrong to all but the actual Manager .

Time to try the back up goalie. Kelly is not our biggest problem but he has become a BIG problem.

EDIT to add. Just seen the 2nd goal. For an International keeper apparently that was as usual fucking embarrassing. Why is he so poor at one on ones. It is like watching a primary school keeper. Either stay on your line or make a decent attempt at closing the striker down. Or if you are Kelly you could aimlessly run off your line and do neither. He genuinely is a below average keeper right now. And that is being polite. 

If we come out of the next 6 weeks bottom of the league then it should be bye bye Ketts. We are in a 4 way fight for relegation with St J, Ross C and Livi. That should be our focus to stay up. Sadly Uncle Roy will pull the plug on Mackay and throw half a million at the problem come January. So probably only 2 from 3

Edited November 11, 2023 by welldaft

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Been a bit of talk recently about how our seasons seem to be all sugar or shite so I tried to work out our worst runs from the Covid season onwards (Probably a pretty pointless exercise unless you compare it to other midtable teams across the same period but still.)

2023/24- Stuart Kettlewell- no wins from 3rd September- now, 9 games
2022/23- Stevie Hammell- no wins from from 29th October- 15th February- 11 games
2021/22- Graham Alexander no wins from 26th December- 2nd April- 11 games
2020/21- Stephen Robinson/Keith Lasley/Graham Alexander no wins from 31st October to 27th January- 12 Games (Robinson left after 9)

Alexander the only one of the previous three to survive his- until Sligo- probably mainly because it began a few months later and we were already more or less safe from relegation regardless.  Celtic up next means Kettlewell will most likely get the opportunity to reach the 11 game mark himself against Dundee at home, though I reckon it'd have to be a McGhee-esque collapse for him to go after that. After that it's Dingwall away and St Johnstone at home.

This does feel a bit abnormal though doesn't it? I suppose the flipside is that in all these seasons we've put in sustained periods of really good form as well but right now I'd rather a win one, lose one, draw one, win one, lose one sort of season.
 

[RostokMcSpoons]

16 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Been a bit of talk recently about how our seasons seem to be all sugar or shite so I tried to work out our worst runs from the Covid season onwards (Probably a pretty pointless exercise unless you compare it to other midtable teams across the same period but still.)

2023/24- Stuart Kettlewell- no wins from 3rd September- now, 9 games
2022/23- Stevie Hammell- no wins from from 29th October- 15th February- 11 games
2021/22- Graham Alexander no wins from 26th December- 2nd April- 11 games
2020/21- Stephen Robinson/Keith Lasley/Graham Alexander no wins from 31st October to 27th January- 12 Games (Robinson left after 9)

Alexander the only one of the previous three to survive his- until Sligo- probably mainly because it began a few months later and we were already more or less safe from relegation regardless.  Celtic up next means Kettlewell will most likely get the opportunity to reach the 11 game mark himself against Dundee at home, though I reckon it'd have to be a McGhee-esque collapse for him to go after that. After that it's Dingwall away and St Johnstone at home.

This does feel a bit abnormal though doesn't it? I suppose the flipside is that in all these seasons we've put in sustained periods of really good form as well but right now I'd rather a win one, lose one, draw one, win one, lose one sort of season.
 

 

I dunno, maybe I'm getting just too much of an armchair fan these days, but Kett's team, whilst hugely disappointing, has not got as eye-bleedingly soul-crushingly awful as the worst of the Hammy and GA runs.   The team still has moments of good play (when they're actually playing in the right places on the pitch), they can still pass successfully at least some of the time (which does make the hoof-ball all the more annoying when there's no need for it).   But  we are still prone to awful defensive lapses, and have no consistency up front.

I mean, to my (old and watery) eyes, viewing the matches on a computer screen, it feels more like a Robbo "dunno how to fix the shit results" phase than a Hammy "I have no idea what to do but lets make everyone hate football".    

I may be being very kind in my view because (1) I've not watched every minute of every game, in fact I find it easy to get distracted even when I've looking forward to a match for days, and (2) I'm giving Kett's quite a bit of leeway because of the way the injury list really threw a spanner in the works of a good start.

Oh and (3) losing KVV and missing out on an apparently fit again Louis Moult makes me pine for what might have been.

:Sigh:

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

7 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

I dunno, maybe I'm getting just too much of an armchair fan these days, but Kett's team, whilst hugely disappointing, has not got as eye-bleedingly soul-crushingly awful as the worst of the Hammy and GA runs.   The team still has moments of good play (when they're actually playing in the right places on the pitch), they can still pass successfully at least some of the time (which does make the hoof-ball all the more annoying when there's no need for it).   But  we are still prone to awful defensive lapses, and have no consistency up front.

I mean, to my (old and watery) eyes, viewing the matches on a computer screen, it feels more like a Robbo "dunno how to fix the shit results" phase than a Hammy "I have no idea what to do but lets make everyone hate football".    

I may be being very kind in my view because (1) I've not watched every minute of every game, in fact I find it easy to get distracted even when I've looking forward to a match for days, and (2) I'm giving Kett's quite a bit of leeway because of the way the injury list really threw a spanner in the works of a good start.

Oh and (3) losing KVV and missing out on an apparently fit again Louis Moult makes me pine for what might have been.

:Sigh:

 

Yeah tbf I'm probably in a similar boat but never really got around to saying that in the OP. It's hard to say how Alexander would have done but Robinson's team just seemed to burn out and we were- IMO- as good as down under Hammell. I don't think the squad Kettlwell has built is as bad as folk have made out- it's just riduclously unablanced- I still think we're probably still more in a postition where if we get any sort of victory in December we can probably muddle through to January and hopefully cobble something together to see us lower mid-table come May.

Although I'm also wondering if I'm only relatively chill about this because it's happened for four seasons in a row now and always worked out okay so far- there probably will come a time where not showing up for 3 months at a time every season might come back to bite us.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I think Kettlewell does have some money in the bank, because his run last season was just as good as it was. The difference between that and Hammell is probably that Hammell had never previously demonstrated the ability to put a run together.

I look at the team that finished the game today (auxiliary striker Mugabi aside) and wonder if swapping Shaw out for Biereth could be just about competent. Could Obika (until he inevitably breaks again) be a better foil for Mika than any of our other strikers have been so far?

[Stevie Kirk]

My tuppence worth having been at the majority of matches this season.

Kelly - he was always a line dwelling keeper I don’t know why everyone suddenly expects Sieb Dykstra. His form has dropped because of the clowncar defence in front of him not the other way round.

SOD - far too slow and looks like he couldn’t give two fucks most of the time. Loves giving the ball to the opposition. Can leave tomorrow as I find watching him utterly depressing.

Butcher - usually a calm head but looks rusty after his long lay off. I think he will come good again once we have a balanced back 5 .

Spencer - plenty of dynamic runs and not afraid to take on his man. Let’s play him on the right eh.

Gent - a little lightweight but then again so was Furlong in his first few games. I appreciate he has had an awful time with his dad dying and that may explain his lack of action to date. We need to be playing him from the start he has a wand of a left foot.

Spittal - guy puts everything into every game  We need to bin playing him at LWB we lose too much at the top end of the pitch.

Paton - had a wee purple patch at the start of the season but now appears to be out of his depth and lacks physicality for the role he is being asked to play .

Wilkinson- either play him up top with Biereth/ Obika in a two or don’t play him at all. Playing him at right wing today was straight out the Hammel playbook with completely predictable results.

Bair - the epitome of an impact player. Never a starter in a million years. but then we knew that before we signed him.

Slattery - dogshit on Tuesday but can be reasonably satisfied with his efforts this afternoon. Very inconsistent.

Casey - love his enthusiasm just needs to be a bit more composed.

Blaney - a bit like Mugabi you just sense he has a calamitous mistake around the corner.

Biereth- seems at times to be holding back a little from the explosive pace we saw in his first couple of games. Please give him a proper partner, preferably Obika if we can keep his hamstrings glued together.

Shaw- heart of a pea. Would much prefer to chuck Luca Ross on for the last 10 mins than this shitebag.

 

 

 

 

 

[Al B]

Players currently available, with Bevis under instruction to just head everything away and under no circumstances attempt football.

 

-------------Biereth---Obika------------------

--^------Spittal-----------Slattery------^------

--^--------------Butcher---------------^-----

Gent---Blaney---Mugabi---Casey---Spencer

------------------Kelly----------------------

[welldaft]

9 minutes ago, Al B said:

Players currently available, with Bevis under instruction to just head everything away and under no circumstances attempt football.

 

-------------Biereth---Obika------------------

--^------Spittal-----------Slattery------^------

--^--------------Butcher---------------^-----

Gent---Blaney---Mugabi---Casey---Spencer

------------------Kelly----------------------

This every day of the week. If Obika is not fit play Bair. maybe Butcher in defence but Paton has been poor of late. 
Plus replace Kelly with anyone please….

[ropy]

3 hours ago, Swami said:

Get Bevis back into the defence and play Butcher in midfield just now. Butcher has done f**k all to sort out the defence and the midfield is soft as shite at the moment. 

This is my thought for the Celtic game, have a full defence and have Butcher playing in that space in front of them where McGregor and Turnbull usually ping the ball about.  Get Butcher to ping their balls about.