Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[18May1991]

5 hours ago, Gianfranco said:

All I want is Natalie Dormer and her fucking apple. FFS Motherwell!

She’s not wanting it any more. It’s mouldy. 

[ropy]

2 hours ago, bunglebonce said:

The six-booking suspension comes into force 14 days from the sixth booking, so Casey will be available if he picked up a sixth yesterday. 

I am still waiting for us to be punished for playing Slattery next Saturday.  I suspect there has been a change in the rule but I can’t find any evidence of it and the SFA don’t publish regular enough suspension updates.  None of the suspensions reported on 2nd November said ‘suspended form 2 week hence’ however it is early enough in the season that Slattery may have been first to breach the threshold.

[ropy]

1 hour ago, 18May1991 said:

She’s not wanting it any more. It’s mouldy. 

It’s not about her.

[ropy]

What are we going to do with Wilkinson?  Is he a player?  On for 30 minutes and curled one just past the post from distance then scored a great equaliser when running from deep.  Still looks like a giraffe on ice and is not a winger.  Can we get more out of him?  4 goals is probably an adequate return when you are not the no. 1 striker at Motherwell.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I know half the outfielders tend to get subbed off these days but it still seems at least notable that every single week we're having to take SOD off for Gent and swap Spencer across to the right. 

I'm fully prepared for Gent to be at fault for two goals and hooked at half time when he does eventually get a start but it's surely worth a try by now?

[ropy]

1 minute ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I know half the outfielders tend to get subbed off these days but it still seems at least notable that every single week we're having to take SOD off for Gent and swap Spencer across to the right. 

I'm fully prepared for Gent to be at fault for two goals and hooked at half time when he does eventually get a start but it's surely worth a try by now?

Agreed

[ropy]

If Casey is suspended, (who knows), how do we line up Blaney, Mugabi and Butcher?  The latter 2 both play in the centre.  Mugabi can play right but that means he will be more involved in the play rather than doing what he is good at which is heading the ball away.  Would we play Butcher on the right?

Unless we appeal, Paton is definitely suspended (is it multiple games for serious foul play?) surely that means we see Davor starting on Tuesday.  If we see O’Donnell at right centre back with Butcher maintaining his place in midfield then Davor might as well see if Inverness airport does flights to North Macedonia.

[CoF]

In the second half up-top we played:-

Obika Biereth

Biereth Wilkinson

Biereth Wilkinson Bair

Wilkinson Bair Shaw

 

I know we scored twice, but that seems kinda mental. Was it a necessity due to Obika and Biereth not being fit for 90 yet, or was it a man chucking spaghetti? 

[capt_oats]

11 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Wilkinson is a weird one as he looks lacking in a lot of areas- especially physically given his size- but can show nice touches on occasion and is actually a pretty good finisher. Gives me slightly more hope he'll turn out to be useful for us than some of the other huddles we've had up top before.

40 minutes ago, ropy said:

What are we going to do with Wilkinson?  Is he a player?  On for 30 minutes and curled one just past the post from distance then scored a great equaliser when running from deep.  Still looks like a giraffe on ice and is not a winger.  Can we get more out of him?  4 goals is probably an adequate return when you are not the no. 1 striker at Motherwell.

It was Wilko who played that shroo ball for the chance Shaw tripped over against St Johnstone that everyone was furious about. He was involved in the (very nice) build up to the goal at Dens on the opening day of the season as well.

I think he's an absolutely fine option although I'm not sure he's what Kettlewell *thought* he was getting - he's certainly not a target man - but he's another of those player who I don't think has really been helped by the absolute fucking chaos around whatever Kettlewell's trying to do at the moment (see @CoF's post above about the variations we played yesterday).

Ngl, given there were a few "I'd have kept Mandron over Obika" type huffs getting chucked about the other week it tickled me a bit when I was looking at the top scorers chart yesterday evening and noticed that (at the time of writing) Wilkinson has the same number of league goals as the bold Mikel Mandron in fewer minutes.

Tbh, Wilkinson feels like one of those player that a few made their mind up about quite quickly.

Speaking in a broader sense, it's a laugh that - generally speaking - when teams are on a run like this they'll generally hit a point where the decision is made to just be difficult to beat and shitfest to a couple of wins (in fact, that was Kettlewell's fix when he took over from Hammell - 'be more difficult to beat').

At the moment we seem to be progressively making ourselves easier to beat week on week by defending like fucking idiots - but fair play to the players for having dug in and salvaging a few points.

Edited December 3, 2023 by capt_oats

[fat_tony]

I think Wilkinson's main problem is that (rightly or wrongly) he was seen as the man coming in to replace KVV, and people are using Kettleball KVV as the benchmark.

Maybe revisionism on my part but while KVV obviously had a great season last year, he only really hit form once he had a partner alongside him and we stopped shelling the ball in his general direction and expecting miracles.

So far I think Wilkinson looks a bit soft but he's shown some great touches and has generally worked the keeper when he's been given the ball in a good position. He's absolutely not a target man (Bair and Obika are our options for that) so we need to play to his strengths rather than hitting it long and expecting him to win it.

[capt_oats]

38 minutes ago, fat_tony said:

I think Wilkinson's main problem is that (rightly or wrongly) he was seen as the man coming in to replace KVV, and people are using Kettleball KVV as the benchmark.

Maybe revisionism on my part but while KVV obviously had a great season last year, he only really hit form once he had a partner alongside him and we stopped shelling the ball in his general direction and expecting miracles.

So far I think Wilkinson looks a bit soft but he's shown some great touches and has generally worked the keeper when he's been given the ball in a good position. He's absolutely not a target man (Bair and Obika are our options for that) so we need to play to his strengths rather than hitting it long and expecting him to win it.

This was something I was thinking about when I was out a run there - about the team in general tbh.

It echoes the comparison @thisGRAEME has made before either here on the pod between Robinson's 18/19 team and where we are now - in so much as similarly to us finding the 352 didn't function as well after we sold Kipré because we didn't have anyone who could play like him it feels like we're currently asking players to do stuff that isn't playing to their strengths.

Casey's best form for us has come playing (weirdly - given he's naturally right footed) left of the back 3, we've now got him on the right of the 3 filling in for McGinn - respectfully, he doesn't offer what McGinn does on the ball - which was a big part of our whole system functioning last season.

Mugabi isn't an organiser and never has been - we've got him in where Butcher was doing that last season.

SO'D is a very handsome man and he's an experienced RWB but he's not Max Johnston.

Brodie Spencer could maybe be Max Johnston but Kettlewell seems entirely committed to playing him out of position presumably because he either a) doesn't trust him enough to play him ahead of SOD or b) doesn't trust Gent at all beyond the last 15 - 20 mins as a hail mary when we're losing or c) both.

Lennon Miller might have a higher ceiling than Sean Goss but he's currently out with (knee) and though our other options have their qualities they don't bring the same things to the midfield Goss did.

That spiel isn't inherently a criticism of the individual player it just feels like asking players to do stuff that isn't playing to their strengths is generally a bad idea, right?

It's also the complete opposite of How Stuart Kettlewell Fixed Steven Hammell's Team.

Edited December 3, 2023 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

Wilkinson arguably earned a start in Tuesday but Biereth isn't getting dropped and I'd be surprised if he replaces Obika. I'd not be unhappy to see him as a 10 but behind that pair but that's bold in an absolute six-pointer and means moving Spittal and Slatter back a place compared to their natural positions.

Gent replacing SOD has been a must for me for a while but I see little reason Kettlewell will change now.

[RostokMcSpoons]

I missed yesterday's game (would've watched via Motherwell TV) but I came to the boards last night expecting something a bit more positive than what I saw.  I thought a sort-of positive result snatched from the jaws of defeat would've got at least some people to show a tiny bit of optimism.  Guess I'll have to watch the whole match replay today.   

Instead everyone is up-in-arms, pitchforks being sharpened and torches lit, ready to dump Kettlewell

That when our the next round of matches gives us a (very long-shot) chance  to move from 8th to 7th. 
And he hasn't lost the dressing room yet. 
The defending may be schoolboy level, but from what I have seen it's not the eye-bleedingly awful anti-football we've seen before.

At the risk of getting red-dotted by someone taking this personally, isn't there a bit too much revisionism taking place?  When Ketts took over we all knew he'd have feck-all budget to work with, and we had (to me) seemed as a group to accept this season would be an "avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth (again)" affair, and then we build on it next season. 

Yes, I realize it's an atrocious run, but the alternative of changing manager again is:

1) Going to cut next season's budget even further (which may well lead us to have an even poorer squad which might leave even a good manager with no hope of improving us)

2) Leave us rooting around in the cast-offs and rejects for a replacement manager with no guarantee the replacement will ever get anything beyond another 'new manager bounce'.  I mean, it's not like we've got a lot of faith in the board to pick the right man for the job, is it?

3) Errr... that's it.

I am just an armchair / office chair fan hundreds of miles away, so of course my thoughts carry little weight compared to you guys sitting in the stands... but with distance comes perspective?  Ehhhhh, probably not
 

 

Edit: Just noticed this is my 666th post... I may be doing The Devil's Work  

Edited December 3, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[ropy]

26 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

 

Gent replacing SOD has been a must for me for a while but I see little reason Kettlewell will change now.

We need to try things that are different to the run of 11 games. If Gent is the answer when chasing a match why would he not be considered when we want to be on the front foot.  If it really doesn’t work SOD will be on the bench to come on and shore things up.

[MurrayWell]

I'd rather we didn't change manager yet again, but this winless run really needs stopped on Tuesday. And I think it's entirely fair that folk would start asking questions of a manager who hasn't won a game since the start of September. 

The team are showing they certainly haven't chucked it, given how many late points we've salvaged, but we're seeing the same show every week at the back, giving ourselves a mountain to climb constantly. 

[Handsome_Devil]

I'd rather we didn't have to change the manager either but ultimately we can't wait until it's too late - if we get to no wins in 13 and are in the bottom two, it's decision time for the transfer window.

I'd love nothing more than for SK to prove me wrong but if we don't take action pre-xmas then the logical alternative is committing to at least March (to avoid a repeat of last year's farcical timings).

And as said before, if you concede two or three most weeks there's absolutely nothing to suggest a change coming.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Handsome_Devil

['WellDel]

He's not turning this round. It's not a matter of if, just when the trigger is pulled, and the sooner the better imo. Fvck knows who we go for next though, or who would want it. The past few years have been a very expensive managerial shitshow.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

2 hours ago, fat_tony said:

I think Wilkinson's main problem is that (rightly or wrongly) he was seen as the man coming in to replace KVV, and people are using Kettleball KVV as the benchmark.

Maybe revisionism on my part but while KVV obviously had a great season last year, he only really hit form once he had a partner alongside him and we stopped shelling the ball in his general direction and expecting miracles.

Aye, looking at it Van Veen only had 4 by this point in his first season (3 against Aberdeen ), so the same as Wilkinson. 

It was very much the Tony Watt show at that point but I suppose there's parallels with Mika there too.

[welldaft]

The last couple of months have not been great truth be told. 

But there is absolutely no way we are binning a Manager when we are sitting 8th in the table and having lost less than half our games.  Of course when outstanding games are played Aberdeen will overtake us as might Ross County this midweek or when they play their game in hand. Again it has been a fairly poor run but those are the facts at this moment in time.

I have seen plenty Motherwell teams who have never come back from 2 goals down twice, 1 goal down at Celtic Park and 1 goal down in the 96th minute whilst down to 10 men. No wins but that is still quite impressive and absolutely suggests the players are playing for themselves and the Manager. Whilst that is evident again there is absolutely NO way we will sack the Manager. And in my opinion nor should we.

My thoughts may and will change if we go into January with no wins and in the bottom two. At that point I am sure the Board would act. 

However I will re-emphasise this Manager is working on a smaller budget than the previous two Managers. We have a Senior team of around 18 players. Which means that with a few injuries and suspensions we are down to 13 or 14. So far we are lucky we are not in a right mess. All it will take is another couple of injuries. 

I will say this about Ketts. He has never complained or gone overboard about this. I only recently heard him mention we would need to strengthen in January. I respect him for that. Even Brendan Rogers has bemoaned the lack of quality in the Celtic squad. I mean hello .

So whilst Ketts could be doing better, I genuinely believe he is doing a OK job given the resources at his disposal. I think it would be naive to think any other Manager could do better with the same squad. The cut backs were clearly a necessity but you could argue strongly that if we continue this non winning streak and bump along the bottom of the league it is as much the fault of the Board or the budgets they have made available. 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by welldaft

[rowsdower]

So, SK said we'd be looking to bring in one or two in january, which isn't a surprise. Where would you see us adding someone?

My assumption is a defender and a midfielder based on our current situation. Ideally a midfielder with some mobility, and a defender that can do what Butcher did last season.

I don't think we have any loanees coming back, nor the option to break any of our loans (not that I'd want to).

Any outs? I don't think we have enough of a squad for that, with three kids on the bench each week. We have spittal, slats, and Kelly all up in the summer, so its possible something could happen with them.

Edited December 3, 2023 by rowsdower