Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Peter Millar]

17 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

Undoubted its growing but the that growth in past 30 years hasn't affected us all that much certainly compared to other leagues and teams. Most of the growth centres on the top 25% of teams in each league, SPFL - 1st to 3rd, EPL, La Liga, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Serie A - 1st to 6th. We're selling our top players for the same money we did in the mid 90's and buying players for slightly less (when we do).

Football is also a global sport and therefore not unique, when our product is sold overseas its generally as filler for a 24hr sports channel that needs content.

We don't have the resources to fund scouts or branded academies abroad, our best bet is to make our facilities, pathway and success stories here something that is enviable among our peers.

Erik doesn't have the star power of a guy with 21.4m social media followers (on one platform alone).

Finally I don't know if you are aware but our merchandising has been outsourced to Provan Sports. The run all the ordering, staff the shop, supply all teams within the club. Under the deal the club only gets revenue when annual sales go over a threshold, one which we rarely do unless its we have a cup final.

It probably hasn’t affected us because we haven’t had a focus on it, and therefore not resourced it but there are other clubs in Scotland outwith the Old Firm at the moment very seriously looking at tapping into the opportunities this expanding global market is offering including esports. At least one  is considering partnering with a university to explore this further.

The selling price of a player is dependant on a number of factors and has changed significantly since the 90’s with the increasing significance of agents, incentive clauses in managers contracts, clauses in player contracts, players forcing the issue themselves, and the inevitable hole in the budget that needs filled. Did we not sell Turnbull for £3.75 million?

I don’t think anyone has mentioned branded academies abroad but in many ways they are a commercial outlet for the club. However, there are clubs in Sweden for example that have over 5000 kids playing within their regional academies and community setup that feeds straight through their player and coach pathways for boys and girls. They work in partnership with other organisations, schools, and grassroots clubs to reduce the cost to the club. Again there are other clubs in `Scotland beginning to put this structure together although they are finding it challenging due to the politics in the Scottish game and lack of pitches. This is one of the reasons why engaging with local communities and the Community Trust is so vitally important.

I’m not sure how many followers Erik has but maybe he knows someone who does have 21 mil followers. Maybe he doesn’t.

Yes. I am aware of the deal with Provan and how it’s structured. If it’s not working for the club I would expect the new Executive Board to review this, renegotiate and improve it, or dump Provan if it can’t be sorted. I think that’s what Hibs did. I might be wrong and will apologise if they didn’t but I think they did. Given the cost to Provan of running the shop etc I don’t think his profits will be that great. The point is if the club don’t have to always be with Provan.

 

[Peter Millar]

35 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

One of the key issues here is that it's the current Executive Board who are recommending this shambles of a deal and trying to force it through.

With the greatest of respect, surely their ills are worth focusing on!

They've been making consistently Bad Choices for *years* and the rate has escalated since Alan Burrows stepped down. This is yet another. There are red flags all over the place but their choice of narrative is to undermine the credibility of the WS which had two of the Executive Board as co-Chair for the duration (but don't mention that).

If someone has proven to make poor choices then why on earth should anyone take them at their word - especially in this situation where the "investor" in question hasn't been held to anything like the scrutiny the Well Society are being subjected to (and they OWN the fucking club!).

I understand what you are saying but basically it’s down to the Well Society members to make a decision. Vote for the EB proposal or vote for the Well Society proposal. How we got to this point isn’t very palatable but it’s where we are. My thoughts are Society members need to focus on considering both proposals for what they are worth, and making a decision for what’s ahead of us rather than looking back. Whoever wins will bring in a new board and the current incumbents will be gone.

[Wellin]

10 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

I understand what you are saying but basically it’s down to the Well Society members to make a decision. Vote for the EB proposal or vote for the Well Society proposal. How we got to this point isn’t very palatable but it’s where we are. My thoughts are Society members need to focus on considering both proposals for what they are worth, and making a decision for what’s ahead of us rather than looking back. Whoever wins will bring in a new board and the current incumbents will be gone.

I personally respect that you and anyone else needs to make a decision you feel comfortable with. My vote is private - and that doesn't mean I'll vote yes but some fans will - and that's their right. And absolutely. It's down to members to make that decision.

Edited Wednesday at 20:49 by Wellin

[Vietnam91]

19 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

It probably hasn’t affected us because we haven’t had a focus on it, and therefore not resourced it but there are other clubs in Scotland outwith the Old Firm at the moment very seriously looking at tapping into the opportunities this expanding global market is offering including esports. At least one  is considering partnering with a university to explore this further.

The selling price of a player is dependant on a number of factors and has changed significantly since the 90’s with the increasing significance of agents, incentive clauses in managers contracts, clauses in player contracts, players forcing the issue themselves, and the inevitable hole in the budget that needs filled. Did we not sell Turnbull for £3.75 million?

I don’t think anyone has mentioned branded academies abroad but in many ways they are a commercial outlet for the club. However, there are clubs in Sweden for example that have over 5000 kids playing within their regional academies and community setup that feeds straight through their player and coach pathways for boys and girls. They work in partnership with other organisations, schools, and grassroots clubs to reduce the cost to the club. Again there are other clubs in `Scotland beginning to put this structure together although they are finding it challenging due to the politics in the Scottish game and lack of pitches. This is one of the reasons why engaging with local communities and the Community Trust is so vitally important.

I’m not sure how many followers Erik has but maybe he knows someone who does have 21 mil followers. Maybe he doesn’t.

Yes. I am aware of the deal with Provan and how it’s structured. If it’s not working for the club I would expect the new Executive Board to review this, renegotiate and improve it, or dump Provan if it can’t be sorted. I think that’s what Hibs did. I might be wrong and will apologise if they didn’t but I think they did. Given the cost to Provan of running the shop etc I don’t think his profits will be that great. The point is if the club don’t have to always be with Provan.

 

For me I'd be concentrating on things that are our core business and we have a track record of delivering successfully before venturing into pastures new. Get the easy wins where we have the track record, experience and ability to deliver on things that are achievable Question has to be could we have done better on these fronts and the universal answer on this is most definitely yes.  By all means explore the new stuff but that should be further down the line than from day one. The thing is AI has been mentioned, what about it? There has been no tangible explanation of what, where and how we'd benefit.

Anyone can put a bit together and stick in words or new economy technologies. Hydroponics, Solar Farm, Robotics, its not hard. The hard bit is joining the dots to the 8th biggest team in Scotland and how they would be implemented in practice. Something we have not had explained in anything worthwhile other than a sentence on here.

I'm unsure of the final figure for Turnbull but no less than £3m. Thing is, we have an academy that every season produces one player on average we sell or get compensation for. While the Turnbull fee breaks the norm guys like him coming through are part of our model, they just don't come through as frequently as a Dean Cornelius or Jake Hastie who leave for a fee after arbitration. So shouldn't be discounted as unique, especially with Lennon sitting in the wings.

I'd definitely look to have a system similar to progressive European cultures where all teams in the area are branded and feed into the club. The issue we have here is a mixture of silo building and protecting what's already been built and a religious over geographic element. Too much who does it affect me rather than how does it better the town/nation/kids. Not unsurmountable but its generational rather than a finger snap.

The buget gap is what this was sold on, our bad season needs it filled. In a few weeks the prize pot for the SPFL goes up by 5.4m thanks to Sky's new deal and 400k extra thanks to a switch from Cinch to William Hill. That equates to £250k extra for a 10th place finish. There is also the Premier Sports deal that everyone including the league is reluctant to advise the reality of. We've had 2 double digit league finishes in 20 years.

The person revealed to me has 10% the followers of Reynolds.

Finally with Provan, 4 CEO's and 4 Chairman have seen fit to keep it in place with full knowledge of the implications, costs and benefits.

[thisGRAEME]

See while this is all very interesting and important, and not to diverge from that; I'd mentioned previously about an article I'd written ranking the last 20 years of our incredible double figures record.

You can read it, and argue about it if you like;

 

Quote

At some point, Motherwell’s ability to churn out a striker scoring into double figures every single season will become a scientific study. For those not thoroughly ML-Pilled, you might not quite be aware of this, but picking a “Best XI” Motherwell side is nigh on impossible. There are about three good goalkeepers, four centre-backs, one left back (although we don’t talk about him anymore) and a couple of reasonable right backs. From midfield forwards though? That’s where the fun begins. Blair Spittal in 23/24 -(11 at time of writing), Lionel Ainsworth double figures of assists and goals, Keith Lasley’s longevity, Allan Campbell’s relentless drive, David Turnbull’s incredible class, Chris Humphrey’s daft speed, Gboly Ariyibi’s cult hero status, Jamie Murphy’s weirdly effective technique, Nicky Law before he pocketed the blue pound(s), Henrik Ojamaa’s electric moments, the list goes on and on.

But strikers? Get out of here. Motherwell are now past two decades of having a player ending the season in double figures. I appreciate that sounds daft and in a very Roy Keane sense; that’s their job. But I assure you, your club doesn’t have this record. The last season Motherwell didn’t have a player in double figures was 1999. So who’s the best of the last two decades, and how are we ranking them? Like any Terrace list, this is almost entirely on vibes. Some get higher spots because they were extra fun, or extra important, or just a magic player at a magic time.

20. Chris Long – 11 (season 19/20) A weird one, this. Frankly, Motherwell were in freefall when the season was canned, but he could’ve ended up with even more had we not all gone for an extended sit-down. Seven league goals and four cup goals gives him a strike rate of one-in-three, but every single one of them made Chrissy look miserable.

19. Liam Donnelly – 11 (season 19/20) If ever there was a harbinger of an incoming apocalypse, Liam Donnelly netting eight goals in eight games at the start of the 2019-20 season was it. Incredibly, for about three weeks the Northern Irishman was the highest scoring player in Europe. It didn’t make a lick of sense, but boy did he strike a nice football.

18. Nick Blackman – 10 (season 10/11) We’re still in the odd and surreal here, as the Blackburn Rovers loanee leathered 10 goals by Christmas for Motherwell, then was nicked by Craig Brown and showed up in Aberdeen looking like he’d been Space-Jammed, hitting the back of the net twice between January and May. Funny.

17. Tony Watt – 10 (season 21/22 – left in January) Tony Watt departed Motherwell in January 2022 while in the form of his career, before heading for Dundee to be relegated with United and loaned out. Still, he had the last laugh because he collected a medal for winning the Championship, which was exactly what he went to do in Dundee.

16. Jim Hamilton – 11 (season 05/06) My abiding memory of this season was Hamilton thumping one past the Pars in a customary shoeing at East End Park and a boy I went to school with got an 18 month banning order for running around the roof of the stand celebrating. No, I’ve no idea how he got there either.

15. Richie Foran – 14 (season 06/07); 12 (season 05/06) Signed on a freebie because he was released for trying to scrap with Carlisle’s chairman, and Terry Butcher’s Mrs saw him on a video and said he looked good, Foran was class. He was absolutely a liability at all times, but he was class.

14. Ross McCormack – 11 (season 07/08) We’re at the difficult ones now and having to make up some vaguely tangible reasons to separate people other than my own grudges. Ross McCormack was a key part of the team that fired Motherwell to Europe for the first time in my adult life. The front three of McCormack, Porter and Clarkson had half the games we played won by about 25 minutes in. It was thrilling, chaotic, wonderful. That said, his return when he looked like he’d had a Michael Jackson facelift has been the single most disappointing return (and boy we’ve had plenty) I’ve ever seen.

13. Devante Cole – 12 (season 20/21) Big Decanter. Every so often you end up with a player that is clearly too good for you, and Devante is definitely one of them. Not only a fine scorer, we didn’t lose a game he scored in during his second spell. Despite Graham Alexander’s foibles, like not having any idea what midfielders were for, and viewing stopping opposition players from crossing as a waste of time, he did turn the big man into a problem in the 18-yard box.

12. David Clarkson – 14 (season 08/09); 13 (season 07/08); 14 (season 03/04) There are about four different versions of David Clarkson that played for Motherwell. The original “dug chasing a plastic bag in the park” one, followed by the “Looks destined for a spell at Airdrie United” one, then the pleasantly surprising “became a Scotland international” one, and then the final form of “absolutely puggled, but he’s nice to have around” one. I like the third one the best.

11. Jamie Murphy – 11 (season 12/13); 13 (season 11/12); 12 (season 10/11); 10 (season 09/10) This might be the most unfair of them all, as Jamie Murphy hit double figures for Motherwell in four consecutive seasons, including cup semi-finals and playing in genuinely brilliant, fun teams. Before his knees left the chat, Murphy was deceptively nippy, with a terrific technique to make up for being built like the end of a fiver.

10. John Sutton – 13 (season 14/15); 22 (season 13/14); 17 (season 10/11); 14 (season 09/10); 12 (season 08/09) So long as you never look at his Twitter, John Sutton is hard to dislike. A true form of ‘big honest laddie’, despite spells out on the left wing under Craig Brown, and various different spells with the club in and out of form, he had an incredible record that stands alongside just about anyone’s. A mate once ran into him on Buchanan street and more or less yelled in his face “YOU’RETHEMOSTHANDSOMEM ANINSCOTTISHFOOTBALL” to an absolutely bemused John Sutton.

9. Theo Bair – 15* (season 23/24) (*At time of writing.) Yeah, whatever, recency bias. But similarly, of everyone on this list, there’s no-one that highlights quite how ridiculous this ongoing record is. As the season started Thelonius was looking like the 4th choice striker of five (don’t ask) behind Mika Biereth, Conor Wilkinson, Jonathan Obika, Joe Efford and marginally ahead of Oli Shaw. Fast forward 35 games and we’ve seen Biereth, Wilkinson and Efford all depart, Obika and Shaw bit-parts and the Bair has feasted (at least) 15 times. For a player that had hit the net once in 18 months for St Johnstone this is frankly unfathomable.

8. Lukas Jutkiewicz – 12 (season 09/10) I know you’re never meant to fall in love with a loanee, but that’s just because your club didn’t sign Lukas Jutkiewicz, you losers. Signed in the midst of Jim Gannon’s surreal breakfast buffet signing era, a kid that had cost Everton £1,000,000 felt like a big win, but I doubt anyone assumed he’d leave Scottish football with such an iconic moment – an attempted murder of Graeme Smith from about eight yards. While that was great, my favourite moment was on March 6th 2010. Pulled off the bench with ten to go, very clearly not fit, very clearly hobbling, he barrelled around, throwing Graham Gartland, Michael Duberry and Dave Mackay around like empty trackies, giving John Sutton the space to hit a winner. What a man.

7. David Turnbull – 15 (season 18/19) The true Wizard of Wishaw. Part of a midfield with a Spaniard and it was somehow wee Davie that was the baller. I haven’t been so head over heels with another human since I met the mother of my child and watching him, first of all, find his feet in the league, then cut about showing how easy he found it all will never fail to amaze me. His performance in an end of season dead rubber against Dundee is worthy of a L’Equipe 10/10.

6. Kevin Van Veen – 29 (season 22/23); 11 (season 21/22) Big Kev. Incapable of being normal, incapable of not scoring goals. Graham Alexander was a big weirdo but somehow managed to double down on his success with Devante Cole by signing the most maverick striker available. While his goal return in his first season was decent, the Dutchman exploded in his second term. When you’re breaking goalscoring records set almost as far back as Dundee’s last Scottish Cup win, you’re in exalted company. But it wasn’t just the goals, it was the touches, the flicks, the turns; turning Ash Taylor inside out, sending players out of frame with a drop of the shoulder and, most importantly, laughing in Declan Gallagher’s face.

5. Lionel Ainsworth – 11 (season 13/14) The human highlight reel. Capable of disappearing for 88 minutes a game, capable of anything you like. The yin and yang of humanity in one compact, electric body. A player who had arrived after spells at 12 different English clubs, mainly jobbing around in League One, coming on as a sub at Tannadice and leathering one in from 30 yards set him on his way. One of a collection of players who stepped up and battered Rangers (literally in Lionel’s case) in the play-offs, and a saviour on so many occasions. There’s a reason that Pie and Bovril becomes a Lionel-fest during international breaks on the Motherwell thread; he made watching football worthwhile.

4. Chris Porter – 18 (season 07/08) The first time I can remember us pushing the boat out for a player and getting exactly what we paid for. Chris Porter was a different level to anyone we’d had in years. McGhee’s first season was all sorts of things as a Motherwell fan, but on a purely footballing basis; incredible. McCormack/Porter/ Clarkson remains my favourite frontline of all time. A perfectly balanced trio, each different, each complimentary, and absolutely lethal as a three.

3. Louis Moult – 14 (season 17/18 – left in January); 18 (season 16/17); 18 (season 15/16) The king. In another Motherwell off-season that saw a variety pack of strikers signed, the skinny looking laddie from Wrexham was not the top of anyone’s list at the start of the season. Louis though? If you were to hold up a shining example of what being ‘Motherwell’ is to me, it’s him. Every single time he stepped on the pitch he was a better player than he’d been a week earlier. Graft, determination and a sheer will to get better was what made him what he was, and some players just deserve what they get. His performance in unravelling Rangers in the Betfred Cup semi-final will never be far from my mind. That same wee guy getting in a fight with Bruno Alves feels like a fever dream, but he bettered him in every aspect. A gent. My hero.

2. Michael Higdon – 27 (season 12/13); 16 (season 11/12) A Motherwell player who was voted player of the year. Between Jim Bett in 1990 and Lawrence Shankland this year, there’s only one player that wasn’t an Old Firm player and his name is Michael Higdon and he scored goals, loads of them. To this day, there is a sect of the Motherwell fanbase that never took to him, and their lives are less rich for it. They missed him scud one past United at a million miles an hour from miles out. They didn’t get to enjoy his overhead kick. They didn’t get to see him noise up James McPake for calling him fat. Nicky Law’s perfect cross against Celtic didn’t happen, and noising up Neil Lennon on another defeat for Celtic at Fir Park? Stricken from their personal records. Too bad lads, you painted that corner and now you live in it!

1. Scott McDonald – 11 (season 16/17); 14 (season 15/16); 16 (season 06/07); 12 (season 05/06); 15 (season 04/05) Do I begrudge this? A player so desperate to be loved by another team in Scotland that he pretends the most iconic thing he ever did wasn’t actually him? Maybe just marginally. The reality? This list has the very best goalscorers in Motherwell’s recent history, and all of them are headed by the chippy little Aussie, Scott McDonald. There are few players in Motherwell’s history as important as Scott McDonald and anyone telling you otherwise is thick. Seven seasons over two spells, and in most of them we’d have gone down if it wasn’t for Scott McDonald. A player who not only excelled in his actual role as a striker, but one who raised the other players around him. Moult, Erwin and Sutton were all at their very best with him hounding them around the field. Like Ainsworth, his contribution against Rangers was key, and I’d argue, the key. A player who simply couldn’t face losing, didn’t, and for that I’ll forever be thankful. l 

 

[BabyReindeer]

15 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

Vote for the EB proposal or vote for the Well Society proposal.

'if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.”

[Swello]

55 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

The WS board members are treated by some of you with the same contempt that McMahon, Dickie and Weir treated them with. Cos they don't wear the same suit or blazers. Because of their age. Dare I say because of their backgrounds?

I saw a comment on one of the club posts that said "I don't want the club run from the east stand" - and there have been lots of similar snide comments that I've picked up on - so that is definitely a thing. I think that kind of snobbery existing in a club of about 4000 supporters is almost funny.

A well ironed pair of flannels, shiny blazer and relevant skills hasn't stopped the decision making at the club being embarrassingly inept for about 3 years now. Operating losses tend to look worse when you're paying 3 management teams simultaneously and when your collective marketing nous consists of an utter shanner of a video 2 whole years after you first mooted the idea of seeking investment, it's an achievement to look down on anyone.

Pie in the sky stuff about global marketing and all the rest of it can get in the bin until we have a vaguely functional governance structure, maybe with less people running the club from the Main Stand as a prerequisite. 

[Swello]

27 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

Vote for the EB proposal or vote for the Well Society proposal

Sorry - this is simply wrong. The question is to vote for the EB proposal or to reject the EB proposal. There will not be a counter proposal as part of the ballot.

[Peter Millar]

22 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

For me I'd be concentrating on things that are our core business and we have a track record of delivering successfully before venturing into pastures new. Get the easy wins where we have the track record, experience and ability to deliver on things that are achievable Question has to be could we have done better on these fronts and the universal answer on this is most definitely yes.  By all means explore the new stuff but that should be further down the line than from day one. The thing is AI has been mentioned, what about it? There has been no tangible explanation of what, where and how we'd benefit.

Anyone can put a bit together and stick in words or new economy technologies. Hydroponics, Solar Farm, Robotics, its not hard. The hard bit is joining the dots to the 8th biggest team in Scotland and how they would be implemented in practice. Something we have not had explained in anything worthwhile other than a sentence on here.

I'm unsure of the final figure for Turnbull but no less than £3m. Thing is, we have an academy that every season produces one player on average we sell or get compensation for. While the Turnbull fee breaks the norm guys like him coming through are part of our model, they just don't come through as frequently as a Dean Cornelius or Jake Hastie who leave for a fee after arbitration. So shouldn't be discounted as unique, especially with Lennon sitting in the wings.

I'd definitely look to have a system similar to progressive European cultures where all teams in the area are branded and feed into the club. The issue we have here is a mixture of silo building and protecting what's already been built and a religious over geographic element. Too much who does it affect me rather than how does it better the town/nation/kids. Not unsurmountable but its generational rather than a finger snap.

The buget gap is what this was sold on, our bad season needs it filled. In a few weeks the prize pot for the SPFL goes up by 5.4m thanks to Sky's new deal and 400k extra thanks to a switch from Cinch to William Hill. That equates to £250k extra for a 10th place finish. There is also the Premier Sports deal that everyone including the league is reluctant to advise the reality of. We've had 2 double digit league finishes in 20 years.

The person revealed to me has 10% the followers of Reynolds.

Finally with Provan, 4 CEO's and 4 Chairman have seen fit to keep it in place with full knowledge of the implications, costs and benefits.

I can see that but the club needs growth badly. The stadium is falling down, the training facilities are rudimentary at best when compared with other clubs, etc. I don’t think we can do that without extending outside our core business and I hope the Well Society proposal reflects this.

The club have been successful recently in developing players but for years we produced an odd player or nothing. If you look at the trend throughout Scottish football (yes people do research this) it tends to point at clubs having a period when they are producing good talent and then it drops off. You can look at clubs like Hibs, Dundee United, Aberdeen as examples of this so it’s difficult for any club to include that in medium or long term financial planning. Hibs have been waiting 5 years for McGinn to move so they can cash in but it’s never happened.

I’m not sure the religious element has much impact when it comes to parents choosing an academy for their son or daughter any more they tend to look at how their son or daughter will be valued within the academy and progression through to the first team. If you have followed the journey Queen’s Park are on just now you’ll see their academy is beginning to provide a holistic approach to the child’s development and not just as a player to reflect this. They’ re also investing heavily in training and other facilities that will provide their academy players with a superb environment to develop in. We need to at least replicate this but we can’t without growth.

Yip. The financial rewards are increasing but so are the costs. You can speak to the financial director at any club in the Premiership and they’ll tell you the same. Utilities have gone up, wages gave gone up, etc. That will eat into much of the increase in prize money, and restrict growth.

Edited Wednesday at 21:11 by Peter Millar
Missed a word

[thisGRAEME]

Just now, Swello said:

I saw a comment on one of the club posts that said "I don't want the club run from the east stand" - and there have been lots of similar snide comments that I've picked up on - so that is definitely a thing. I think that kind of snobbery existing in a club of about 4000 supporters is almost funny.

A well ironed pair of flannels, shiny blazer and relevant skills hasn't stopped the decision making at the club being embarrassingly inept for about 3 years now. Operating losses tend to look worse when you're paying 3 management teams simultaneously and when your collective marketing nous consists of an utter shanner of a video 2 whole years after you first mooted the idea of seeking investment, it's an achievement to look down on anyone.

Pie in the sky stuff about global marketing and all the rest of it can get in the bin until we have a vaguely functional governance structure, maybe with less people running the club from the Main Stand as a prerequisite. 

I find it absolutely unfathomable that folk are quite happy to hand over the keys to some laddie they don't know from Adam instead of people who are... here? It feels like a very Scottish belief that the things we have are shite whereas someone you don't know is obviously great.

Great to believe that a small team who don't win things from a post-industrial town in Scotland can become a global marketing power. I presume no other club has managed it because they've just not tried it like we will.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I find it absolutely unfathomable that folk are quite happy to hand over the keys to some laddie they don't know from Adam instead of people who are... here? It feels like a very Scottish belief that the things we have are shite whereas someone you don't know is obviously great.

It's a general mindset people have about Americans I think.

As if they think "what could someone from Motherwell possibly know about running a business that an American won't?"

[TheMotherwell1]

“If I don’t get a McDonald’s, I’ll just eat this jobbie” is a fairly stupid mindset to be quite honest. 

Edited Wednesday at 21:29 by TheMotherwell1

[Busta Nut]

41 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

See while this is all very interesting and important, and not to diverge from that; I'd mentioned previously about an article I'd written ranking the last 20 years of our incredible double figures record.

You can read it, and argue about it if you like;

 

 

Top class, Bang on the money re: Scott McDonald

[BabyReindeer]

38 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

The thing is AI has been mentioned, what about it? There has been no tangible explanation of what, where and how we'd benefit.

Anyone can put a bit together and stick in words or new economy technologies. Hydroponics, Solar Farm, Robotics, its not hard.

What are the odds on all these lengthy posts from “Erik” actually being generated by ChatGPT, from a Hank Scorpio-like underground lair?

[Vietnam91]

3 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

I can see that but the club needs growth badly. The stadium is falling down, the training facilities are rudimentary at best when compared with other clubs, etc. I don’t think we can do that without extending outside our core business and I hope the Well Society proposal reflects this.

The club have been successful recently in developing players but for years we produced an odd player or nothing. If you look at the trend throughout Scottish football 9 yes people do research this) it tends to point at clubs having a period when they are producing good talent and then it drops off. You can look at clubs like Hibs, Dundee United, Aberdeen as examples of this so it’s difficult for any club to include that in medium or long term financial planning. Hibs have been waiting 5 years for McGinn to move so they can cash in but it’s never happened.

I’m not sure the religious element has much impact when it comes to parents choosing an academy for their son or daughter any more they tend to look at how their son or daughter will be valued within the academy and progression through to the first team. If you have followed the journey Queen’s Park are on just now you’ll see their academy is beginning to provide a holistic approach to the child’s development and not just as a player to reflect this. They’ re also investing heavily in training and other facilities that will provide their academy players with a superb environment to develop in. We need to at least replicate this but we can’t without growth.

Yip. The financial rewards are increasing but so are the costs. You can speak to the financial director at any club in the Premiership and they’ll tell you the same. Utilities have gone up, wages gave gone up, etc. That will eat into much of the increase in prize money, and restrict growth.

I'd advocate expanding outside out core business when we exploit everything we can from our core business first. Hunter stand is looking pretty fresh, new roof, new seats, new stairs, Cooper too. POD will always have issues due to its construction. I understand the South is due a bit of TLC.

Player development is cyclical yes I agree, but thats something we know, can address and is importantly on our doorstep.

It's widely known Bailey Rice and Paul Slane's OF da's heavily influenced their moves. Plus all the others we never even signed because the love hearts came out the eyes like in a cartoon.

Don't need to speak to any financial director, I see my own bills and know it every time I'm in a supermarket. However a 250k uplift even with inflation and increasing costs puts a massive dent in our much vaunted gap.

 

Roof of South Stand, approx. 65m x 33m, 2,145sq.m. 800W PV panel 2.2m x 1.75m 37x15 panels = 555 total. 555 x 800W = 444kW per hour (theoretical - we're in Scotland remember) £100 each (first price on google). Total Cost 55k + inverters, controllers, batteries, install, wiring, grid tie. £100k all in.

That above in one paragraph illustrates more than we've got out of Erik on anything, its sustainable, 20 year guarantee, and reduces our carbon footprint and it took me 5 minutes.

 

[David1979]

2 hours ago, Peter Millar said:

The thing about the proposal I like is he’s thinking big. Football is a developing global economy and clubs can really leverage their revenue streams with partnerships across a number of industries. We don’t play in La Liga, and we’re not Barcelona but even at our level, and in our league there are global opportunities. Artificial intelligence is already bringing benefits to clubs who are starting to use it and  better fan engagement systems can widen our reach across the world. Again, we’re not `Tottenham but I’m sure I read somewhere that 71% of  Spurs fans never attend games but they buy merch. I’ve done that myself for my two daughters who adopted Spurs as their second team. I think he just thinks bigger .

The thing is, thinking big isn't hard. It would literally take me about fifteen minutes to provide a vague plan that incorporates AI, social media, documentaries, playing against Celtic or Rangers at Wembley, or signing Latin American players to appeal to a tequila company who might want to sponsor us.

Where the real challenge lies is in demonstrating exactly how you're going to achieve all of the above.

How will you implement AI for the betterment of the club? I asked Erik Barmack that very question on this forum and his response was that "there are off-the-shelf programmes that can be set up for less than £10k and take roughly ten weeks to set up."

When he last posted vaguely about what he was bringing to the table, I asked the following:

1. While you mentioned the strategic importance of flexibility and adapting plans, you did not provide a direct justification for why an initial £300,000 per year investment for three years, followed by the further agreed amount merits a 47% stake in the club. 

2. Your response highlighted the philosophy of adapting business strategies but lacked specific details about your business and investment plan for the club. Stakeholders need a clear understanding of the strategic initiatives you plan to implement. What are the key projects or areas of investment that will drive growth and success for the club? come on man, sell us on your vision!

3. It is essential to outline the actionable steps you intend to take over the investment period. Specific projects, marketing strategies, and operational improvements should be clearly defined. I understand your point about being flexible, but that should never imply that you don't need to provide a competent 'base level' to start from.

4. To evaluate the potential success of your proposed investment, we need to see measurable projected outcomes and milestones. What are the KPIs you will use to track progress? How do you project the return on investment (ROI) over the six-year period? Detailed financial projections and performance benchmarks are necessary to assess the feasibility and impact of your plan.

He hasn't answered any of those questions.

So yes, while he may be "thinking big", you need to question his ability to first distil those ideas into a coherent plan (which we haven't seen yet—a fact that is quite amusing considering the Well Society are being judged on a plan they will be releasing!), and his ability to put those ideas into action.

2 hours ago, Peter Millar said:

My preference is the Well Society remains in control but I’ll be looking for an imaginative proposal from them that takes into account these wider opportunities - and provides support to local communities.

Will you be demanding a plan from Barmack? Or are you prepared to vote for him based entirely on some "big ideas" and a pittance money-wise every year? That's a serious question.

[BabyReindeer]

Quote

Will you be demanding a plan from Barmack? Or are you prepared to vote for him based entirely on some "big ideas" and a pittance money-wise every year? That's a serious question.

Luckily, those who exhibit the sort of lazy thinking you rightly castigate above only get one vote. 

Unfortunately, so do we. 

[Vietnam91]

@Peter Millar see you've been a member on SOL since 2010, however only started posting for the first time 2 days after the scheme went live on the 10th of June 2024. Posts are exclusively on the scheme (not the new strip, transfers or social media content).

One thing that is consistent is pretty much tyre kicking the clubs value or ability to be successful without Erik's influence.

So, is there anything anyone on here can do to make you reject this?

[JamesP_81]

12 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

I'd advocate expanding outside out core business when we exploit everything we can from our core business first. Hunter stand is looking pretty fresh, new roof, new seats, new stairs, Cooper too. POD will always have issues due to its construction. I understand the South is due a bit of TLC.

Player development is cyclical yes I agree, but thats something we know, can address and is importantly on our doorstep.

It's widely known Bailey Rice and Paul Slane's OF da's heavily influenced their moves. Plus all the others we never even signed because the love hearts came out the eyes like in a cartoon.

Don't need to speak to any financial director, I see my own bills and know it every time I'm in a supermarket. However a 250k uplift even with inflation and increasing costs puts a massive dent in our much vaunted gap.

 

Roof of South Stand, approx. 65m x 33m, 2,145sq.m. 800W PV panel 2.2m x 1.75m 37x15 panels = 555 total. 555 x 800W = 444kW per hour (theoretical - we're in Scotland remember) £100 each (first price on google). Total Cost 55k + inverters, controllers, batteries, install, wiring, grid tie. £100k all in.

That above in one paragraph illustrates more than we've got out of Erik on anything, its sustainable, 20 year guarantee, and reduces our carbon footprint and it took me 5 minutes.

 

This is something I've thought of on and off over the last wee while but probably more on the 'social conscience ' angle rather than the economic angle. I don't have any voice in the running of the club and over the last wee while I've been more likely here to sit back and let folk that know more than me cast their views while I watch from the background but surely someone has costed out and seriously discussed PV covering all over our stand roofs ?! Had thought it was such an obvious win-win that there were hidden costs my untrained mind hadn't worked out that made it unviable. Due to our rather cramped stadium footprint surely every single inch of usable space has to be maximised , PV and wind turbines to even cover match day electrical usage would be a start.  

[Peter Millar]

6 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

I'd advocate expanding outside out core business when we exploit everything we can from our core business first. Hunter stand is looking pretty fresh, new roof, new seats, new stairs, Cooper too. POD will always have issues due to its construction. I understand the South is due a bit of TLC.

Player development is cyclical yes I agree, but thats something we know, can address and is importantly on our doorstep.

It's widely known Bailey Rice and Paul Slane's OF da's heavily influenced their moves. Plus all the others we never even signed because the love hearts came out the eyes like in a cartoon.

Don't need to speak to any financial director, I see my own bills and know it every time I'm in a supermarket. However a 250k uplift even with inflation and increasing costs puts a massive dent in our much vaunted gap.

 

Roof of South Stand, approx. 65m x 33m, 2,145sq.m. 800W PV panel 2.2m x 1.75m 37x15 panels = 555 total. 555 x 800W = 444kW per hour (theoretical - we're in Scotland remember) £100 each (first price on google). Total Cost 55k + inverters, controllers, batteries, install, wiring, grid tie. £100k all in.

That above in one paragraph illustrates more than we've got out of Erik on anything, its sustainable, 20 year guarantee, and reduces our carbon footprint and it took me 5 minutes.

 

But it’s not just TLC. Fir Park needs redeveloped like other clubs have done with their ground. The view in some parts of the East Stand is crap, the leg room in the O’Donnell is miserable to say the least. The kiosks offer a miserly selection of food. I could go on.

I don’t know the situation with Paul Sloane and Bailey Rice but they are definitely exceptions. Most parents now are really discerning about where their child is going, the training regime, support for homework, what is the medical support like, exit strategies such as are there partnerships with other clubs in case their kid doesn’t make it and has to drop down the pyramid.

Have you included labour costs and equipment hire for the roof of the new stand. 100K seems a little light.

A 250k in a 5/6 million turnover is better than nothing but it’s not really touching the sides.

The club needs proper investment to sustain growth. Hopefully the Well Society proposal will reflect this.