Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Desp]

I think the "physicality" aspect of the English Championship is over-emphasized IMO.  Yes, it takes a lot to play there, but for me it's more about having the stamina to get through the 50+ games (when you throw in cup ties and potential playoffs) rather than pure strength.

Players like Jamie Murphy and Barry Bannan have performed well at that level, and in Murphy's case in particular, he's built like the side of a fiver. 

Whether Stewart, or Marvin Johnson, would excel at that level, who knows?  I hope they both go on and do it.  But I think it's fair to say if you compare their times in the Scottish top flight, Stewart comes out on top on all fronts.  

Edited August 31, 2016 by Desp

[Casagolda]

McGhee apparently saying during his Scotland presser this morning he's confident Marvin's staying as there are no offers on the table for him at the minute.

Which knowing McGhee, probably means he's already packed his bags and is driving back down south as we speak.

I mean surely to f**k you wouldn't hand in a transfer request unless you were sure somebody actually wanted you? Would be a bit of a minter for Marv after his agents statement yesterday if nobody actually came in for him.

[thisGRAEME]

21 minutes ago, Desp said:

I think the "physicality" aspect of the English Championship is over-emphasized IMO.  Yes, it takes a lot to play there, but for me it's more about having the stamina to get through the 50+ games (when you throw in cup ties and potential playoffs) rather than pure strength.

Players like Jamie Murphy and Barry Bannan have performed well at that level, and in Murphy's case in particular, he's built like the side of a fiver. 

Whether Stewart, or Marvin Johnson, would excel at that level, who knows?  I hope they both go on and do it.  But I think it's fair to say if you compare their times in the Scottish top flight, Stewart comes out on top on all fronts.  

Wouldn't disagree with any of that, actually. All good points, really. 

Give us yer money.

[well fan for life]

28 minutes ago, Desp said:

I think the "physicality" aspect of the English Championship is over-emphasized IMO.  Yes, it takes a lot to play there, but for me it's more about having the stamina to get through the 50+ games (when you throw in cup ties and potential playoffs) rather than pure strength.

Players like Jamie Murphy and Barry Bannan have performed well at that level, and in Murphy's case in particular, he's built like the side of a fiver. 

Whether Stewart, or Marvin Johnson, would excel at that level, who knows?  I hope they both go on and do it.  But I think it's fair to say if you compare their times in the Scottish top flight, Stewart comes out on top on all fronts.  

Tbf I wouldn't say we're comparing the ability of the players. I think it's just the fact we are in a far stronger bargaining position than Dundee ever were with Hemmings or Stewart. With a mixture of release clauses and them being out of contract they were forced into selling on the cheap. As you say if you look at the numbers when comparing Stewart & Johnson, Stewart is on top in every category.

I've resigned myself to him leaving today. I reckon if we get anywhere north of £500k we'll take it and run. 

Following that the meltdown on Steelmen Online will be enough to bring down the entire internet.

[Desp]

2 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Tbf I wouldn't say we're comparing the ability of the players. I think it's just the fact we are in a far stronger bargaining position than Dundee ever were with Hemmings or Stewart. With a mixture of release clauses and them being out of contract they were forced into selling on the cheap. As you say if you look at the numbers when comparing Stewart & Johnson, Stewart is on top in every category.

I've resigned myself to him leaving today. I reckon if we get anywhere north of £500k we'll take it and run. 

Following that the meltdown on Steelmen Online will be enough to bring down the entire internet.

Totally agree, if you see my earlier post this morning I refer to exactly that.  

I also think he'll go, but I'm comfortable enough that if he does go, then it'll be for a decent fee.  For all the talk of bringing in a like for like replacement, is there really a big need?  

With Moult back, it's a given him and McDonald start.  So in the 4-3-3 McGhee favours, I'd be more than happy with Ainsworth being the winger in that system, with a free role almost behind the two strikers.  Ainsworth's goals and assists speak for themselves over the last three seasons.  

We have Thomas and McLean for back up in the wide areas (to be honest, i'm losing belief in the former, but I've heard good things about McLean) and Blyth as back up striker.  

I think chat of GMS/Henderson on loan from Celtic is a bit "wishlist" thinking on Steelmen Online, but someone like Henderson would be incredible. 

[well fan for life]

2 minutes ago, Desp said:

Totally agree, if you see my earlier post this morning I refer to exactly that.  

I also think he'll go, but I'm comfortable enough that if he does go, then it'll be for a decent fee.  For all the talk of bringing in a like for like replacement, is there really a big need?  

With Moult back, it's a given him and McDonald start.  So in the 4-3-3 McGhee favours, I'd be more than happy with Ainsworth being the winger in that system, with a free role almost behind the two strikers.  Ainsworth's goals and assists speak for themselves over the last three seasons.  

We have Thomas and McLean for back up in the wide areas (to be honest, i'm losing belief in the former, but I've heard good things about McLean) and Blyth as back up striker.  

I think chat of GMS/Henderson on loan from Celtic is a bit "wishlist" thinking on Steelmen Online, but someone like Henderson would be incredible. 

Aye. Pretty much. He's shown a couple of brilliant flashes, but he's so lightweight I'm struggling to carry on thinking he'll make it. Cadden was lightweight in January when he came in, but since then he's bulked up and looks like he can handle the physicality. I really want Thomas to kick on and show us his worth, but I am rapidly losing faith.

Also interesting to bring up Ainsworth. In a battle of pure numbers, Ainsworth is probably a far more productive player than Johnson for us. 

[shootingboots]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

It's nothing like the Hemmings/Stewart deals, but thanks very much for popping in.

 

 

I like to stick my oar in so thank you. 

Wasn't talking about the players or their situations/position/goals/assists....just that Dundee fans thought they'd get £2m for the pair, and I've seen £1m quoted here. Dreamland. Clubs in England know they can offer peanuts and clubs will sell cos they have to. 

[Ron Aldo]

I have no problem with him looking for a move but I wonder what sort of reception he would get if he stayed. Particularly from some of the morons in the East Stand.

[Mr Hahn]

7 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Aye. Pretty much. He's shown a couple of brilliant flashes, but he's so lightweight I'm struggling to carry on thinking he'll make it. Cadden was lightweight in January when he came in, but since then he's bulked up and looks like he can handle the physicality. I really want Thomas to kick on and show us his worth, but I am rapidly losing faith.

Also interesting to bring up Ainsworth. In a battle of pure numbers, Ainsworth is probably a far more productive player than Johnson for us. 

Aye as I said earlier in the thread, I would hope that Johnson going might bring out the best in Ainsworth again. He has some quality stats for us in terms of goals and assists. Struggles with inconsistency as most players of his type do but we're in no desperate situation to bring in a replacement for Johnson IMO.

If anything, if there's a little money from Johnson's fee that'll be reinvested in the squad, keeping it as a fall back for January if there's injuries or it's clear we need someone might be a better option.

[well fan for life]

4 minutes ago, Mr Hahn said:

Aye as I said earlier in the thread, I would hope that Johnson going might bring out the best in Ainsworth again. He has some quality stats for us in terms of goals and assists. Struggles with inconsistency as most players of his type do but we're in no desperate situation to bring in a replacement for Johnson IMO.

If anything, if there's a little money from Johnson's fee that'll be reinvested in the squad, keeping it as a fall back for January if there's injuries or it's clear we need someone might be a better option.

I think Ainsworth is a total confidence player. When things aren't going for him he looks dreadful, but when he's on form he's a joy to watch. I mind a couple of years back he had a 5 or 6 game run where he scored every week. In particular I mind against St Johnstone where he was like a man possessed, every time he got the ball he was drifting by 3-4 players.

[Swello]

14 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

I have no problem with him looking for a move but I wonder what sort of reception he would get if he stayed. Particularly from some of the morons in the East Stand.

I'm an east stand moron and as long as he was still trying, I'd be fine with him - and there would be no sense in him being in the huff if he wanted out in January.

On Ainsworth - I'd imagine that his stats would be miles ahead of Johnson in terms of end product even if his general play/effort level is lower - If Johnson was away and the problem of trying to accommodate them both had gone, then he would be worth another run as a starter.

[Mr Hahn]

44 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I think Ainsworth is a total confidence player. When things aren't going for him he looks dreadful, but when he's on form he's a joy to watch. I mind a couple of years back he had a 5 or 6 game run where he scored every week. In particular I mind against St Johnstone where he was like a man possessed, every time he got the ball he was drifting by 3-4 players.

Yeh, I think you're right. Something that definitely frustrates with Ainsworth is when the team isn't playing particularly well too. You'd really want someone of his ability and pace to provide a bit of spark that could sneak us a 1-0 or get us a draw but I think he looks like he's hiding sometimes in that situation.

One player that comes to mind who was better in that situation was Ojamaa. Even if the team wasn't playing well, he would always look for the ball, always keep running and try to provide something. You often don't get that from Ainsworth.

[s_dog]

If Johnson has now asked for a transfer and his agent is unhappy with Motherwell's valuation being too high, why did Johnson come out with those comments about being happy to stay at Motherwell when the earlier bid was knocked back a few weeks ago?

[well fan for life]

If Johnson has now asked for a transfer and his agent is unhappy with Motherwell's valuation being too high, why did Johnson come out with those comments about being happy to stay at Motherwell when the earlier bid was knocked back a few weeks ago?

Because it seems like his agent is the one being a total dildo.

[Casagolda]

Think thats a bit simplistic, the agent boy works for Johnson not the other way about. Johnson will be the one pulling the strings here, even if his agent is the one doing all the dirty work.

Funny how his agent seems to be taking a lot of the flak but as far as I can see he's only doing his job, which is whatever Johnson tells him to do. Which in this instance seems to be to get him a move back down south.

Despite what Johnson said in the media, going by Motherwell's statement the two of them having been trying to engineer a move away for weeks behind the scenes. Going public with the transfer request and the agent's statement seem like a last throw of the dice to try and force a move through.

[well fan for life]

5 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Think thats a bit simplistic, the agent boy works for Johnson not the other way about. Johnson will be the one pulling the strings here, even if his agent is the one doing all the dirty work.

Funny how his agent seems to be taking a lot of the flak but as far as I can see he's only doing his job, which is whatever Johnson tells him to do. Which in this instance seems to be to get him a move back down south.

Despite what Johnson said in the media, going by Motherwell's statement the two of them having been trying to engineer a move away for weeks behind the scenes. Going public with the transfer request and the agent's statement seem like a last throw of the dice to try and force a move through.

Does seem odd for McGhee to be putting it about that there's no bids in and he expects he'll be here. Surely the point of a transfer request would be when an offer has come in to try to force the hand of the club. 

Either way, Johnson & his agent have had a howler today.

[capt_oats]

I think the transfer request seems to have been an attempt to force the club to accept a bid they had previously rejected rather than encourage a new one. Hence the statement from MFC being worded in the way it was ie: "we won't be cajoled or manoeuvred into accepting a bid that's below our valuation".

From the looks of things MFC are perfectly happy to keep him at Fir Park unless an acceptable offer comes in. Fairs fucks to them for that.

[Swello]

22 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Think thats a bit simplistic, the agent boy works for Johnson not the other way about. Johnson will be the one pulling the strings here, even if his agent is the one doing all the dirty work.

Funny how his agent seems to be taking a lot of the flak but as far as I can see he's only doing his job, which is whatever Johnson tells him to do. Which in this instance seems to be to get him a move back down south.

Despite what Johnson said in the media, going by Motherwell's statement the two of them having been trying to engineer a move away for weeks behind the scenes. Going public with the transfer request and the agent's statement seem like a last throw of the dice to try and force a move through.

I think this is true - but it's not always straight forward. You are right in that in this case, Johnson would likely have said "I want a move back down south summer 2016" and then it's up to big Gino to do whatever needs to be done to make it happen (and in this case, the club are pretty much lined up with this objective even if they differ on the fee). On the other hand, there have been plenty of examples of agents unsettling players and engineering moves to suit themselves more than the player - and so I would be hesitant to always judge a player based on his agents actions or methods....

[Casagolda]

16 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Does seem odd for McGhee to be putting it about that there's no bids in and he expects he'll be here. Surely the point of a transfer request would be when an offer has come in to try to force the hand of the club. 

Either way, Johnson & his agent have had a howler today.

Aye as I said earlier, the whole transfer request thing is just gonna make Johnson look like a right knob if nobody actually wants him.

I'd assumed when this emerged on Monday that the club would already be in negotiations with somebody and Johnson was just trying to force it through.

Thought he'd be gone already to be honest or we'd at least have heard where he was supposed to be going by now. All seems to have gone quiet though and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was still a Motherwell player come midnight.

[Desp]

If he does end up staying at Motherwell after tonight, I hope Scott McDonald has a wee word with him regarding his next step.

I'm sure we all remember McDonald's reaction in January 2007 after the Rangers bid was rejected.  He certainly wasn't happy, but knocked his pan in for the following five months, scoring plenty of goals to effectively keep us up.  He then got his big move. 

A similar scenario for Marvin Johnson would be best for all.