Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Yoshi-91]

On 24/05/2019 at 13:11, ONeils4Oyarder said:

If anybody wants to make their eyes bleed...heres the **** discussing it...

https://www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/motherwell-cut-away-fans-allocation.76432/

The utter irony in calling other clubs diddies for having smaller supports while sitting in Carfin, Larkhall, Dundee and everywhere but Glasgow, supporting Rangers cos their Da says " f**k eh ****" and these nuckle dragging morons are too thick to conjure up a thought for themselves and just "follow on".

[capt_oats]

Didn't see the article but noticed this story in a Twitter search. Apparently we've "opened discussions" with Robinson about extending his deal to 2021. Which...seems fair enough?

It's interesting as there have been a few times lately (even when things have been going alright) where he's seemed absolutely scunnered (not least around the whole Hastie thing and the recent mass exodus - which bar one or two players I'm not sure he's really been bothered about) and he's never seemed more than a run of poor results away from #RobinsonOut picking up traction (again). I had wondered whether he may have been considering his options this summer as our form in the 2nd half of the season is a good look and his CV is still decent enough.

Overall he's 108 games deep with a win % of 43.5%. He's still younger than McCall was when he took over in 2010.

As it stands his current deal expires at the end of next season.

The 2 year extension last season seemed quite extreme given the timing as it was quite early on in the season but based on the job he's done so far (and hearing folk like Mo Ross waxing lyrical about him) it makes sense. He kept us up in 9th. Rebuild the squad and finished 7th (48 pts) and reached 2 cup finals then finished 8th (51 points) which as discussed earlier in the thread is about our average during the 35 years in the top flight.

He's built a squad, then rebuilt it again and changed our style at least 3 times.

Add to that #YoungMotherwell becoming a thing this season, the £2m+ odd in player trading (Heneghan £350k, Moult £500k, Kipré £1m, Bowman £¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Hastie £TBC, McKinstry £400k*) and the fact that the past 2 seasons have seen a pretty massive overhaul in the infrastructure at the club (Hammell and Clarkson taking Academy roles, Craigan stepping down, Ross coming in with O'Dea recently added and the investment in Project Brave in general).

The only real link there seems to have been in terms of other jobs was Luton and there seemed to be an image problem there with the whole hoofball and hammer-throwers tag. I'd have thought that another season in the vein of #SexyMotherwell would probably raise Robinson's stock a bit higher.

Given the regular (and reasonable) comments about budgets and the like I'd be interested to know if any extension discussion involved a bit more backing in terms of what Robinson's able to spend.

Our form post-winter break through to the split had us 4th (it's 3rd post-break through to the end of the season but the post-split fixtures just skew that). It kind of feels that if we want to continue doing that we'll need better players in.

I've no idea what the plans are in terms of succession planning (obviously), I'd always just kind of assumed the ideal would be that Lasley would take over but even if that wasn't the case, given the structure at the club now (and the players coming through/available) compared to when Robinson got the job I'd argue we're probably a far more palatable option than we were. Even more so if the debt to Boyle and Hutchison is cleared in the near future.

We've probably missed the boat on him but IMO if/when Robinson does leave it'd seem far less of a risk to look at a more expansive Valakari-type with our current set-up than it did around the dumpster fire that was McGhee's exit.

Edited May 26, 2019 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

I think during his two and half years here Robinson’s certainly shown more than enough to demonstrate himself to be a decent young manager, if one who’s also obviously still learning and developing. 

I actually thought the (unexpected)announcement of Sloth over the anticipated signing of Fané was quite a telling one from Robinson.  

Opting for a small, technically gifted footballer over a big bruiser in the middle of the park is a real departure from where he was this time last season and it looks like he’s committed to continuing down that path. The problem is as you say, the type of players we’ll need to make this work generally cost money.

I’d say we need a minimum now of two good strikers and at least three wingers of reasonable quality to stand any chance of making it work again next season. That’s not easy in one window and it certainly won’t be cheap. You expect a certain number of duds in any recruitment process but given he’s essentially starting from scratch, Robinson simply can’t afford to make too many wrong steps in that particular department this summer. 

Fair play to him though for sticking with it. I really didn’t really believe him or think he had it in him when he said he was going to change our style of play, especially mid-season. The football served up at Fir Park during the first half of the season was as poor(and ineffective) as I can remember for a long time. By contrast, the stuff we’ve played so far in 2019 is probably as entertaining as it’s been at Fir Park since Mccall’s 12/13 side.

Hopefully he gets it right this summer and we can continue in the same vein next season.

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, Casagolda said:

I think during his two and half years here Robinson’s certainly shown more than enough to demonstrate himself to be a decent young manager, if one who’s also obviously still learning and developing. 

I actually thought the (unexpected)announcement of Sloth over the anticipated signing of Fané was quite a telling one from Robinson.  

Opting for a small, technically gifted footballer over a big bruiser in the middle of the park is a real departure from where he was this time last season and it looks like he’s committed to continuing down that path. The problem is as you say, the type of players we’ll need to make this work generally cost money.

I’d say we need a minimum now of two good strikers and at least three wingers of reasonable quality to stand any chance of making it work again next season. That’s not easy in one window and it certainly won’t be cheap. You expect a certain number of duds in any recruitment process but given he’s essentially starting from scratch, Robinson simply can’t afford to make too many wrong steps in that particular department this summer. 

Fair play to him though for sticking with it. I really didn’t really believe him or think he had it in him when he said he was going to change our style of play, especially mid-season. The football served up at Fir Park during the first half of the season was as poor(and ineffective) as I can remember for a long time. By contrast, the stuff we’ve played so far in 2019 is probably as entertaining as it’s been at Fir Park since Mccall’s 12/13 side.

Hopefully he gets it right this summer and we can continue in the same vein next season.

Agree 100%.

In fairness I wouldn't wholly rule out Fané signing on either (as a McHugh replacement) but as a general statement of intent I think announcing Sloth early was, as you say, surprising and welcome that we've led with a technical player in there. Polworth probably falls into the same category I guess.

The fact we seem to be very, very keen on keeping Gboly around plays into that as well.

In terms of the money side of things looking at the players on our OUT list and the sheer number of forwards leaving I'd hope we might be able to be a bit more discerning in recruitment. Newell may not have been on much but adding it all up between them Newell, Sammon, McCormack (and Main) was probably a decent chunk of budget for very few goals and Johnson's been parked on the bench since January.

We were all sitting posting on here talking about the need to add quality this time last year and ended up with Conor Sammon (nothing against the big man like). I get that there may have been mitigating circumstances as to how/why that came to pass, Robinson may genuinely have seen Main as our answer as #9, the wages we had tied up in Main & Bowman may have limited in terms of getting someone better to play ahead of either, we may not have been prepared to have Main or Bowman's wage sitting on the bench, we may have been priced out on other options etc) but hopefully it's a lesson learned in that we really need to get it fucking right.

The question I have, generally speaking, is what market we're likely to be shopping in. Obviously we're limited by budget, we all get that, and Robinson's been clear about us signing players who aren't getting games elsewhere but while McCormack was a bust (though a gamble worth taking) and Ciftci was mercurial we've seemed a bit more open to taking on names recently than we did 3 or 4 seasons ago.

Robinson never really seemed won over by Bowman and Johnson's had limited success though barely kicked a ball in the 2nd half of the season. I know we've a winger coming in from an "non-league environment" but are we likely to put our faith in that sort of recruitment for key positions?

I thought it was interesting that Ross was mentioning that his budget has been halved and there's been a change of strategy at that level.  We've clearly invested heavily in the infrastructure and coaching side of things there but it made me wonder if we might be redistributing some of that money (on the playing side) into the first team rather than essentially running with two full squads or if it's simply a case of looking at things overall and seeing a lot of wastage.

Fwiw: this is where we are including PCAs. Stating the obvious but even including the players we've already sorted there's virtually a clean slate up front and I guess there's the possibility of movement around the edges of the squad:

Contracted First Team:
GK: Gillespie / Carson / Ferguson
DF: Grimshaw / Tait / Hartley / Dunne | PCA: Gallagher / Carroll
MF: Campbell / Turnbull / Donnelly | PCA: Polworth / Sloth
FW: Johnson
Total: 15

TBC: Cadden / Tanner / Ariyibi

Out: Taylor-Sinclair / Aldred / Mbulu / McHugh / Frear / Gorrin / Main / Newell / Sammon / Hastie / McCormack = 11

Contracted Reserves/u20s:
GK: Hemfrey
DF: Livingstone / Maguire / Devine / Brown / Hussain
MF: Cornelius / Kettings / McAlear / Semple
FW: Scott / Starrs
Total: 12

TBC: Morrison

Out: Bowers / Gordon / Brown / MacDonald / Watson / McKinstry / McLaughlin = 7

Edited May 26, 2019 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I've got a wee feeling we'll have a decent season next year. Both Edinburgh clubs are probably looking at pretty major overhauls in the summer, Aberdeen look like they're slipping back into mediocrity again, and Killie will surely revert back to the mean somewhat as they adjust to life after Clarke. Given the Dundee sides are both out the top flight as well this looks like us or St Johnstone's best chance of breaking into the Top Six again for a while. 

I'm not saying we'll be finishing 3rd again or anything but if we can replicate Robinson's 2017 rebuilding job where an entirely new team clicked pretty much immediately- and hopefully avoid going into meltdown the entire month of December- then I'm cautiously optimistic that we can at least put in an actual serious challenge for the top half, instead of playing catchup like this year. 

On paper at least, our summer business looks about as good as anyone could have reasonably expected. Sloth has genuine pedigree,and Gallagher/Polworth are proven at this level. Carroll I 100% expect to be shite because he's a left back not named S. Hammell. If we can get an upgrade on Main and somehow hang onto Turnbull for another year then I think there's a lot to be positive about.  

[ONeils4Oyarder]

On 5/24/2019 at 13:41, Drew Brees said:

 

Has Gordon Smith been in the media yet saying we should refuse to play at Fir Park ever again?

 

I have no idea...Gordon Smith is an old firm fanny, and can get tae f**k

[Casagolda]

12 hours ago, capt_oats said:

In fairness I wouldn't wholly rule out Fané signing on either (as a McHugh replacement) but as a general statement of intent I think announcing Sloth early was, as you say, surprising and welcome that we've led with a technical player in there. Polworth probably falls into the same category I guess.

Alan Burrows actually pretty much did just that when he was asked about him last week. 

Which is fair enough to be honest, we’ve got enough players to name two teams from keeper through to midfield. I’d imagine some would have to move on before we do anything else in those areas.

Most of his budget now will surely be going towards the complete rebuild in the final third. 

 

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Alan Burrows actually pretty much did just that when he was asked about him last week. 

Which is fair enough to be honest, we’ve got enough players to name two teams from keeper through to midfield. I’d imagine some would have to move on before we do anything else in those areas.

Most of his budget now will surely be going towards the complete rebuild in the final third. 

Fair play. I missed that completely (obvs). (Just seen it there and Flow's pretty emphatic )

That's what I get for making assumptions. It definitely suggests a shift, the past few seasons it'd have been easy to imagine a "win the battle" insurance player in the centre of the park.

I'm genuinely curious to see what sort of business we're looking at doing this window if the focus is going to be on creative/attacking forwards. It's kind of a brave new world.

Edited May 27, 2019 by capt_oats

[ONeils4Oyarder]

12 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I've got a wee feeling we'll have a decent season next year. Both Edinburgh clubs are probably looking at pretty major overhauls in the summer, Aberdeen look like they're slipping back into mediocrity again, and Killie will surely revert back to the mean somewhat as they adjust to life after Clarke. Given the Dundee sides are both out the top flight as well this looks like us or St Johnstone's best chance of breaking into the Top Six again for a while. 

I'm not saying we'll be finishing 3rd again or anything but if we can replicate Robinson's 2017 rebuilding job where an entirely new team clicked pretty much immediately- and hopefully avoid going into meltdown the entire month of December- then I'm cautiously optimistic that we can at least put in an actual serious challenge for the top half, instead of playing catchup like this year. 

On paper at least, our summer business looks about as good as anyone could have reasonably expected. Sloth has genuine pedigree,and Gallagher/Polworth are proven at this level. Carroll I 100% expect to be shite because he's a left back not named S. Hammell. If we can get an upgrade on Main and somehow hang onto Turnbull for another year then I think there's a lot to be positive about.  

With Livi, St Mirren, Ross County and Accies in the league this season, the absolute minimum we should be looking at should be an 8th place finish, which should allow us to possibly push the boat out a wee bit and really make an effort for that Top6 place.

[crazylegsjoe]

I'm happy enough with Robinson getting an extension. Had you asked me after the Ross County game in January, I'd probably have given a different answer, but fair play to him since then.

When he came in at first, his initial objectives had to be to keep us in the division and then build a team over the summer that shut the back door and wouldn't concede 5 to Dundee, 7 to Aberdeen etc and he done that. To finish 7th and reach two cup finals in the process was an added bonus.

It was, however, evident to me that the style we achieved this in wasn't going to last forever. Sooner or later, it would get found out and nullified and in all honesty, that style doesn't make for entertaining Saturdays when the results aren't there. My hope for this season was that Robinson identified the positives from his first full season and built on those foundations by adding a bit more technical expertise to the team in order to allow us to evolve. In fairness, he done that, but the annoying part to that was that we had to go backwards before we went forwards.

There obviously has to be a bit of a black mark against most of his signings - Sammon, McCormack, Taylor-Sinclair, Donnelly and Mbulu didn't have much of a contribution and neither did Johnson post Christmas.

I don't know if that was always his intention or whether Rodriguez-Gorrin finally looked up to it, it finally clicked that Grimshaw was a full back, Campbell shook off being burnt-out with the winter break and Turnbull and Hastie became ready to paly week-in, week-out happened at the right time. Either way, I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, given that the soundbites from both him and Mo Ross suggest we will continue like this.

The downside of how settled our team became was Aldred and Ariyibi being on loan and Hastie and Rodriguez-Gorrin departing on freedom of contracts. Main too, although he was effective in the system, I do feel that's an area we need a change in.

Interestingly, Robinson almost has a clean sweep of the team he inherited now. If Cadden departs, by my reckoning, that leaves only Richard Tait and Allan Campbell (who had 1 start and 1 sub appearance when Robbo took over).

[capt_oats]

Bringing out #YoungMotherwell with the ST #content...

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Ross McCormack's just got a wage bump up to £70,000 a week due to his promotion clause. 

[mwellhighland]

3 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Ross McCormack's just got a wage bump up to £70,000 a week due to his promotion clause. 

That's ridiculous and hilarious. More in a week than our average annual wage.

[Al B]

That's some amount of pizza suppers, he'll be in his element!

[capt_oats]

Bobby Martinez for Barcelona...maybe.

Edited May 28, 2019 by capt_oats

[Pettigrew]

10 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Ross McCormack's just got a wage bump up to £70,000 a week due to his promotion clause. 

Understand that they came to a severance agreement a couple of weeks back to prevent that happening.  Not seen it publicised anywhere yet though. 

[Neil86]

no call up for David Turnbull, disappointing when you look at some of the call ups. 

[Casagolda]

Whilst I feel a bit sorry for him as he undoubtedly deserved it, especially when you see some of the utter guff called up, I can’t say I’m overly disappointed from a Motherwell point of view. 

He’s still only 19 and he played a lot of football last season, I think I’m right in saying he’s only missed one game since October? Scotland play Belgium a week before we’re due back for pre-season, last thing you want is a similar situation to Campbell last year. 

Let the boy have a well earned rest, get a good pre-season in him and he’ll probably be in double figures before the end of the League Cup group stage. *

* If he’s still here.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Casagolda

[capt_oats]

That’s McHugh confirmed as off to India. Signed for ATK. Pearson was with their previous Atletico Madrid linked incarnation.

[Al B]

Sausage Michael is a great name.