Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Kyle]

I’d back myself to beat the Wee fucker at pool. 

I’m quite excited about another summer of will he/won’t he re Swanson. No doubt he’ll leave Hibs, turn us down and sign for Motherwell. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Kyle

[tree house tam]

Just now, perthsaint1977 said:

Was out in Perth with muzz and some of the coaching staff after the recent hibs game. Boys a great pool player btw and good lad.

Was also at the Hearts game at Tyncastle when we got pumped. He may be a good pool player but he has shite taste in jackets.

Also as an aside, I've never met anyone who's parents own a pub that is shite at pool. 

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

Hypothetical situation, if we could sign Swanson and Williams, would we be happy to keep the bulk of the squad the same and not make any other additions?

No. We badly need a central midfielder and a striker

[Kyle]

I’d take those two as long as we had enough to get a centre mid in the Millar mould. If Macca leaves/retires, we need another striker too. McMillan looked great for the 20 minutes we’ve seen him, but we can’t rely on a player who has come from a league where Graham Cummins is absolutely tearing it up. 

[perthsaint1977]

 There was a player in Graham Cummins underneath the soft exterior, don't @ me.
 

Agree about Cummins. I'd have loaned him to the championship for the second part of the season to get a run of games and goals. When he first arrived was full of confidence and scored a fair amount. Unlucky then with injuries.

[RandomGuy.]

This is Murray Davidsons "radar", closer to the edge it is, the better they're performing in that category compared to the rest of the league. Its been posted alongside a comment that he doesn't contribute anything. 

Things like is why it's a struggle to put much stock in these twitter stattos. They have a lot of good stuff, but they come off like that have no idea about the players they're actually on about, as you'd surely be looking at "duel won"/"possessions won" when evaluating Davidson. 

[perthsaint1977]

The amount of unrecognised work Murray does can't be quantified for me. When he plays he sets the stall out for us in that he harries , presses, steals , fouls, breaks up play etc. All the dirty work that is never recognised except by the fans of team he plays for week in week out. I wouldn't swap murray for many others. Could you imagine a middle two of Murray and mcginn

[tree house tam]

Muzz is underappreciated by most folk apart from Saints fans. Let's keep it that way.

[Radford]

The guy that posted the radar will never have seen him play in the flesh and only on TV against Rangers. He's got him on totally on the wrong template. Davidson isn't in the team to create chances or make passes. He scores goals in spite of his role in the team, not because of it.

The major failing of these analytic types is the fact they don't actually watch live football.

[Kyle]

Those radars only go so far when judging a player. Davidson is, in my opinion anyway, our best player and is essential to how we play. We're not as a good a team when he's injured/not playing.

 

 

[Widge]

Those radars only go so far when judging a player. Davidson is, in my opinion anyway, our best player and is essential to how we play. We're not as a good a team when he's injured/not playing.

 

 

I’d agree. He’s by no means our best technical player in any category. He’s not our best player in terms of footballing brain or vision. What he is, is a colossus in our team and you’ve only got to look at how we play without him, we’re weak in the middle.

He’s out equivalent of McKinnon, McHugh, McGinn, Adao, to a lesser extent Brown. It might not be realised, but much worse without.

[tree house tam]

33 minutes ago, Widge said:

 

I’d agree. He’s by no means our best technical player in any category. He’s not our best player in terms of footballing brain or vision. What he is, is a colossus in our team and you’ve only got to look at how we play without him, we’re weak in the middle.

He’s out equivalent of McKinnon, McHugh, McGinn, Adao, to a lesser extent Brown. It might not be realised, but much worse without.

 

I think you're doing McKinnon a disservice there, the boy can play a bit and wouldn't be surprised to see him at Saints when his contract runs out.

Regarding Muzz, he has been a phenomenal player for St Johnstone, hope he signs on again for another 2 years at least. 

[Widge]

I think you're doing McKinnon a disservice there, the boy can play a bit and wouldn't be surprised to see him at Saints when his contract runs out.
Regarding Muzz, he has been a phenomenal player for St Johnstone, hope he signs on again for another 2 years at least. 

So can all of the players I’ve mentioned, including Muzz when he wants to. I’m not suggesting they’re not good players, I’m saying that they also know when to put the foot in and regain control by being strong.

[Kyle]

Right, suppose I better fulfill my keep/release promise. I can't let all my fans down.

I was listening to sportsound on the way to the ground last night and the question of new signings/contracts came up. Tommy reiterated again that there will be changes this summer, he mentioned that he doesn't want loans again (he mentioned that he's only actually signed 2 players that aren't either youngsters or short term fixes this season, which is obviously true) and that he has told the chairman that he needs to be allowed to spend money to improve the team. I suspect that will go on wages rather than any fees - perhaps one or two nominal fees if anything - so I wouldn't get my hopes up for too many buys, but rather perhaps a similar summer to last summer where we're looking for some more 'jewels'. We've already been linked to Rory McKenzie (winger/number 10/right centre mid in a 3) and Paul McGowan (similar style of player to Chris Millar, which (along with HSF's post this morning) probably hints at his fate this summer)

The squad list as it stands;

Goalkeepers

1. Alan Mannus (2018)

12. Zander Clark (2020)

30. Mark Hurst (2018) 

?? Ben McKenzie (2018) - on loan at East Fife

Defenders

22. Keith Watson (2018) 

19. Richard Foster (2019)

5. Joe Shaughnessy (2019)

6. Steven Anderson (2018)

24. Brian Easton (2019)

3. Scott Tanser (2018)

23. Liam Gordon (2019)

14. Aaron Comrie (2019)

15. Jason Kerr (2020) 

Midfielders

10. David Wotherspoon (2019)

4. Blair Alston (2018)

28.  Matty Willock (2018) - on loan from Manchester United

8. Murray Davidson (2018)

7. Chris Millar (2018)

26. Liam Craig (2019)

20. Kyle McClean (2019)

21. Stefan Scougall (2019)

11. George Williams (2018) - on loan from Fulham 

??. Ali McCann (2019)

Strikers

9. Steven Maclean (2018)

17. Denny Johnstone (2018) 

16. David McMillan (2020)

25. Chris Kane (2020) 

31. Greg Hurst (2018) - on loan at Forfar

50. Callum Hendry (2018)

So, out of contract;

Alan Mannus - If he's willing to carry on with us like this season, I'd be happy to give him another year. He's shown himself as more than capable and now that he's retired from international football he can perhaps take up a coaching/mentoring role with the other young goalkeepers around the club. Surely the club will offer him another year.

Mark Hurst - . He's 23 in October and I don't think he's set the heather alight during his most recent loan spell at East Fife. He certainly lost his place towards the end of that loan spell. I think he'll go.

Ben McKenzie - Unlike Hurst, he's still only 20 and seems reasonably well thought of it at the club. He's only played 3 games during his loan spell at East Fife so far, but I'm not sure if that's because  of the number of postponements they've had or if he's also lost his place. I think he'll get another year

Keith Watson - The writing has been on the wall for Watson since he was told he was free to leave in May last year. He's managed one competitive start and I think one appearance off the bench since. I remember at the time of his signing he was put through the most strenuous medical we've ever administered to a player, which he obviously passed, but it's just not worked out for him at Saints. He'll be gone and, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he disappeared once our safety is 100% confirmed.

Steven Anderson - he's looked much more like himself since the winter break. I'm not certain he's back to where he used to be, but he's back to an acceptable level and isn't given the crowd/his team mates kittens when he's on the ball! He's earned another year. Mannus and Millar had to accept reduced terms to stay this season. It may be time for a similar arrangement to be made with Anderson. We can make it up to his previous wage with appearance money etc, but it wont be too much longer before club are looking to transition him out of the team.

Scott Tanser - Up until recently, I was a hater. His recent form has won me round though. I've always been happy enough with his contributions going forward, but questioned his heart, desire, bravery and aggression. In that respect, he seems to have turned a corner and is looking stronger with every passing game. He's played a lot of football for us this season and has been incredibly unlucky not to score. Given where he plays, that's a very good trait to have, especially as I can't remember too many glaring errors that he's made defensively as well. Some may call me crazy, but I say keep and I think he'll be get a 2 year contract. He'd be daft to turn that down, unless of course he gets a better offer from a club closer to home.

Blair Alston - I'm struggling with him either way. He's shown in flashes that he's a capable player at this level. He's versatile (played right wing back, right midfield, centre mid and as a number 10 at points this season) and is a wiling worker for us. He has the air of a headless chicken though and ultimately his inability to nail down a position in the team in nearly 2 years may count against him when it comes to dishing out new contracts. His age and attitude count in his favour though, and he's the kind of player who will leave us, sign for another middling top flight club and come back to hurt us if we do let him go. I think he'll get an offer to extend his stay, but he really needs to kick on now that he's getting a run in the team and seems to have picked up some confidence. I think he'll get offered another couple of seasons with us.

Murray Davidson - Move heaven and earth to keep this man. He's settled in Perth now and he always comes across as being happy enough with his lot in life after a difficult time a few years ago. The way he's been treated by Saints seems to count in our favour and I think he'll be one of the first to put his pen to paper, both because the club will be desperate to get the deal done and he'll be happy to stay. I'd give him longer personally, but I think he'll sign on for another couple of years.

Chris Millar - He's be the second name on my team sheet after Murray Davidson, but it's clear his time in Perth is coming to a close now. He's been one of my favourite players for the vast majority of his 10 years with us, but it's probably time given the apparent breakdown in his relationship with the manager. I'll be very sad to see him go, but I can't see any other outcome.

Steven Maclean - I think this is the biggest headache for the club/manager. The attributes of David McMillan suggest to me that he was seen as Maclean's long term successor but, with Kane coming back full of confidence, Maclean has also discovered a new lease of life over the last 6 weeks or so. I think it needs to be remembered that Maclean will turn 36 a couple of weeks into next season though. I'm not sure if he's already had his terms reduced, but I'd be tempted to offer him another year either on reduced terms, or as a player/attacking coach. I read before that he's working towards his badges and he's got the respect of the players he'd be working with day to day already. As much as Maclean has picked up he hasn't scored  a goal since the 2nd of December. I don't envy the conversation Tommy is going to have to have with Macca.

Greg Hurst - Release. He's only 20 which obviously works in his favour but, if we're being realistic, he's not going to make it at Saints. He's better off leaving now and trying to get a decent club this summer so he can try and kick on again.

Callum Hendry - He's been injured more or less all season but has still managed a couple of appearances for our first team. He's a completely different kind of striker to what we already have and is only 20. I think he'll get another year, but if he has a similar run of injuries next season, he'll be gone next summer.

Loanees

Matty Willock - He'll slink back to Man United once we're confirmed as safe. I'd be staggered if he makes it at the top level as he doesn't seem to understand the game.

George Williams - Wright said in his sportsound interview last night that he's already told Williams he would like to keep him at the club next season. If he carries on his form from the last 2 games until the end of the season, I'd imagine he'll have a few offers from league one clubs in England and possibly Fulham as well. It's early days, but he's certainly the most promising of the loanees and I'd like us to make an effort to keep him.

Denny Johnstone - that spell of good form in December has come and gone and he's back to being a bit part player. I wouldn't be looking to sign him permanently.

Not as extreme as it would've been a month or so back. Tanser, Alston, Mannus, Anderson and Maclean have all picked up and probably deserve new contracts now along with Davidson. Some of the others are young enough to get a bit longer if they've shown enough in training. It's also become clearer that the likes of Watson, Millar, Willock and Johnstone wont be with us next season too.

That passed a good half an hour and it's now lunch time. I love pontificating about contract renewals to pass my working day.

[Widge]

Wright has talked about big changes, but right now I’m not really sure where. For me he’ll let Watson, Millar and Johnstone go or back from loans and we’ll replace them with a central midfielder and a striker.

Only big doubt is Williams, we need to sign a winger regardless. Which is where Watson’s wage comes in.

I didn’t think I’d be saying this a few months ago, but I’m actually happy with our defensive options. Especially once we actually have all our fullbacks fit and playing. Ando is on the decline, but Gordon and Kerr have forced him to up his game considerably. He’s still abysmal in possession that’ll never change, but he’s actually winning tackles now.

I guess my list is as followed -

Release - Hurst (GK), Watson, Millar, Watson (FW), Willock, Johnstone

Bring in - Central midfielder, Winger x 2 (Williams dependant), Striker

I don’t see where the big changes are there I’m afraid and to be honest I’m not sure we need them. The emergence of the 3 young lads in defence, Tansers recent form and Kane coming back a different player have all calmed that for me. Add in the fact you’ve got Scougall, Foster, Easton and McMillan all out and to come back in, we’re ok. If you ask me for a team for next season I’d be struggling for sure. I’m not sure there’s anyone other than Davidson who’s a nailed on starter and that’s good and bad for me cause it gives players motivation to perform, it also gives Wright the chance to tinker and we all know how that ends up.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

3 minutes ago, Widge said:

Wright has talked about big changes, but right now I’m not really sure where.

In honesty I think he is talking more about how they go about things in the background.  Scouting, contracts etc, rather than wholesale changes to the playing staff.

Unfortunately, when I hear changes to how we scout, what markets we look at, what types of players all I hear is the wallet tightening.  

[RandomGuy.]

I'd be tempted to keep Johnstone if he was on fucking pennies, tbh... 

Alston probably deserves another deal, although I wouldn't be hugely disappointed if he didn't get one/rejected it. 

[Kyle]

39 minutes ago, Shaggy Jenkins said:

In honesty I think he is talking more about how they go about things in the background.  Scouting, contracts etc, rather than wholesale changes to the playing staff.

Unfortunately, when I hear changes to how we scout, what markets we look at, what types of players all I hear is the wallet tightening.  

I don't think that's how it started out because I'm sure Wright talked about a big turnaround of players and needing to freshen things up. The problem he has now is that he's shackled by those words and a lot of the players he would've had in mind to release have turned it around and probably deserve new deals. Releasing Anderson or Mannus as an example will likely unsettle the dressing room given their presence in there.

The club say we budget for 10th but after the last few years there will be an expectation that the players reach the top 6 and that obviously hasn't happened this year. There's every possibility Wright will see his playing budget reduced and he wont have anywhere near as much money as he feels he needs to refresh the squad. 

If you look at the contracted players, there's no simple solutions there either. English League one clubs might come in for Scougall given his pedigree at that level and, given that he has fallen below expectations and will most likely be our highest paid player, it may be where the axe falls. There's a few underperformers too. First half of the season Foster and Wotherspoon, but they'll be expensive to get rid of and, in Wotherspoon's case especially, they'll have enough good will in the bank to at least see out their contracts.

5 or 6 players will definitely be leaving but I don't think we'll get that many in to replace them. We'll need a centre mid to replace Millar, 2 wingers and possibly a striker. Not sure there's much space in the squad thereafter.

 

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I don't think that's how it started out because I'm sure Wright talked about a big turnaround of players and needing to freshen things up. The problem he has now is that he's shackled by those words and a lot of the players he would've had in mind to release have turned it around and probably deserve new deals. Releasing Anderson or Mannus as an example will likely unsettle the dressing room given their presence in there.

The club say we budget for 10th but after the last few years there will be an expectation that the players reach the top 6 and that obviously hasn't happened this year. There's every possibility Wright will see his playing budget reduced and he wont have anywhere near as much money as he feels he needs to refresh the squad. 

If you look at the contracted players, there's no simple solutions there either. English League one clubs might come in for Scougall given his pedigree at that level and, given that he has fallen below expectations and will most likely be our highest paid player, it may be where the axe falls. There's a few underperformers too. First half of the season Foster and Wotherspoon, but they'll be expensive to get rid of and, in Wotherspoon's case especially, they'll have enough good will in the bank to at least see out their contracts.

5 or 6 players will definitely be leaving but I don't think we'll get that many in to replace them. We'll need a centre mid to replace Millar, 2 wingers and possibly a striker. Not sure there's much space in the squad thereafter.

 

We'll see more first team players leave than come in, and I'd expect the budget to dip a wee bit. 

Watson and Alston will be on first team wages. Millar apparently reduced terms but possibly still alright. No idea about the three loanees but say theyre all average aswell, and that's six senior wages going out. Plus expected cuts to Anderson/MacLean. 

Potentially seven senior wages out, and three, maybe four, in for that. 

[tree house tam]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'd be tempted to keep Johnstone