Saint Stevo Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Almost completely reliant on Spoony in games when there is no space. We just resorted to hopeful direct hoofs, especially in the second half. Big diagonal all day long to Rooney and nobody picking up 2nd ball. Missing out the midfield altogether, when we should be playing through them. United pressed well today though, something that we didn't do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 We've now scored 10 goals in 21 league games at McDiarmid under Callum.  Must be to do with the way we play as much as the personnel.  Got away with it last season because we were so hard to break down, but this year we've only kept one clean sheet in 7 competitive matches so far. Room for improvement at both ends.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviemay17 Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Might just start copying and pasting this, but I am genuinely amazed at how our strikers cannot grasp the fundementals of playing up front. I've said it so many times before, if you accept that Chris Kane is deeply unlikely to score then there's a lot to like about his game, his role in the team is built around that and I don't have a big problem with his inclusion going forward. I feel dreadful for the ghost of Stevie May that now plays because it looks like all the fundementals of his game have been stripped away and he's just a shell, he tries hard and puts people under pressure, but he's essentially a less-good Kane at this point. Callum Hendry is a special mix of neither where he doesn't use his aggression in a positive way, he makes no movements short or long, doesn't strike the ball with conviction and tries to just shoot or cross through his marker without trying to create any space so he offers nothing. We must be the only team I've ever seen who actively look for strikers to flick the ball on, only for the other forward players to seem astounded that the ball going forward is something we can do, so they're 10 yards behind the play and have no momentum. That's one of the fundementals that sunday league players understand - you play it up to a target man and get someone to run onto it, it's not difficult but we don't have anyone who can do it Not sure how it can be fixed, Eetu sounds like an alternative for Spoony/Middleton so there's still nobody to get on the end of the ball when anything does open up, but just watching the forward movement today for about 20 minutes showed a real cowardice in our play - not in terms of being a human pinata and taking bumps, but actually making a movement to get on the ball and give us an outlet - players sprinting towards the corner when the pass is never on, or coming really short into a crowded area where nothing is on, so our movement actively makes the players unavailable for the ball rather than the opposite. This happened after the cup win in 2014, we immediately killed any enthusiasm and increased crowds by scoring less than a goal a game and generally they cam through set-pieces. I've supported Saints since I was 4 and have a season ticket so I'll keep going, but I struggle to see what's there to make the fairweather fans come back, so if we lose on Thursday the European attraction is gone, and a bottom half slug-fest without the ability to score quickly takes over and that's very difficult to sell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 We’ve always been notoriously slow starters in the league. We’ve had opportunities to kill games off but we are missing a killer striker Ala 2013/14 May. If anything needs sorted that needs sorted pronto. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Kane now has a valuable role in the team but ultimately is a goal virgin.  Hendry is shite and May and MOH look finished at this level. A striker is an absolute necessity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Saintee said: Kane now has a valuable role in the team but ultimately is a goal virgin. Hendry is shite and May and MOH look finished at this level. A striker is an absolute necessity. Kane is full of energy and admirable persistence and falls over to better effect than any footballer I know, but is there much more? In the first half May, bereft of confidence as he is, was better in terms of intelligent passing and holding the ball. To say that May and MOH look finished at this level is daft. Fine, O'Halloran was rank today, but who wasn't? I thought he did well against LASK last Thursday. The problems in attack are deeper than individuals anyway. We're not creating opportunities, and that's a worry and it will affect any new striker too. I know some are saying that we started last season slowly, but if I remember we were creating loads of opportunities and playing good football. For whatever reason that just hasn't happened so far. Team today look bereft of energy, as we did in the second half against LASK – something noted by the LASK coach. United looked so much more energetic in their pressing game. McNulty did a power of harrying.  Edited August 22, 2021 by Mr Heliums 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviemay17 Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Just looking back at the league records from last season Stevie May - 5 goals in 34 games, against Hamilton x2 St Mirren x2 and Motherwell, the two Hamilton goals came in the same game - crediited with 4 assists Chris Kane - 4 goals in 28 games, against Celtic, Livingston, Dundee United and St Mirren - credited with 3 assists Michael O'Halloran - 1 goal in 22 games, came in the third game against Killie, also one assist and two red cards Callum Hendry - 0 goals in 16 games, two on loan for Aberdeen David Wotherspoon - 3 goals and 5 assists in 37 games - goals vs Killie, Hamilton and Hibs Glen Middleton - 2 goals in 9 games vs Hibs and Ross county, 0 assists So that's a grand total of 15 goals over a league season, so they've been scoring less than a goal every 2 games between them Guy Melamed contributed 5 goals in 18 games, but even with him that's out entire forward line and support form the att-midfield area only just scoring a goal every two games combined Eetu has 4 in 11 games this season so he would be on track for about 12-14 goals, but that's arguably at a lower level and not sure how penalties and free kicks factor into that. It doesn't matter how good the defence is - that is an unsustainable level for them to compete with, plus that added pressure will lead to mistakes which ultimately kill us when we go behind. This year we've scored from Jason Kerr's pen vs Galatasaray - moment of madness from the keeper, the own goal in the home leg which was a goalkeeping howler and may not have been in, although the goal at the end was nice but again it's when a game is dead in the dying moments Goal vs Motherwell required a large piece of luck, plus the two against Arbroath were set-pieces so little to do with open attacking play. We've only scored one quality goal in a game when it's been from open play and when the game was still competitive, so group stages or no group stages, at least one more on top of Eetu is needed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Two of the rare moments of quality at Gayfield came when Rooney stepped out of defence. The wider centre backs really joined in the with the attacks last season, giving us more numbers going forward, but that isn't happening at all at the moment. Maybe opponents are cutting off the channels or maybe the manager is trying something different but I can't see it yet and without the advanced centre backs, you worry how you improve on a dismal home scoring record with less players getting in advanced areas. When you look at the squad and the changes from last season, it's not really a shock that we still aren't scoring at home. Also, obviously, makes Thursday night a worry. A bit (actually, more than a bit) disappointed how quiet we've been on transfer front, especially in attacking areas. Barely a week of the window left (and given Vertainen isn't over the line yet) we haven't added any jew attacking players. Not really too clever, is it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 we haven't added any jew attacking players. Not really too clever, is it? I don’t think Clive will be too keen on letting us speak to Guy Melamed anytime soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Radford said: Two of the rare moments of quality at Gayfield came when Rooney stepped out of defence. The wider centre backs really joined in the with the attacks last season, giving us more numbers going forward, but that isn't happening at all at the moment. Maybe opponents are cutting off the channels or maybe the manager is trying something different but I can't see it yet and without the advanced centre backs, you worry how you improve on a dismal home scoring record with less players getting in advanced areas. When you look at the squad and the changes from last season, it's not really a shock that we still aren't scoring at home. Also, obviously, makes Thursday night a worry. A bit (actually, more than a bit) disappointed how quiet we've been on transfer front, especially in attacking areas. Barely a week of the window left (and given Vertainen isn't over the line yet) we haven't added any jew attacking players. Not really too clever, is it? Some chutzpah on you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Stevo Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Two of the rare moments of quality at Gayfield came when Rooney stepped out of defence. The wider centre backs really joined in the with the attacks last season, giving us more numbers going forward, but that isn't happening at all at the moment. Maybe opponents are cutting off the channels or maybe the manager is trying something different but I can't see it yet and without the advanced centre backs, you worry how you improve on a dismal home scoring record with less players getting in advanced areas. When you look at the squad and the changes from last season, it's not really a shock that we still aren't scoring at home. Also, obviously, makes Thursday night a worry. A bit (actually, more than a bit) disappointed how quiet we've been on transfer front, especially in attacking areas. Barely a week of the window left (and given Vertainen isn't over the line yet) we haven't added any jew attacking players. Not really too clever, is it? It's a strange place we are in transfer wise. Win on Thursday - fantastic, nice windfall, but we need to bolster the squad to cope with euro games and don't have much time.Lose on Thursday - May lose some of the squad and not much time to replace.I think we've left it too late to potentially get strong additions in. Maybe not, but I'm nervous. Unless we have some lined up depending on scenario we find ourselves in on Thursday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Go on lads, tap them in. I won't even edit it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, Radford said: Go on lads, tap them in. I won't even edit it.  0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 19 minutes ago, Radford said: Two of the rare moments of quality at Gayfield came when Rooney stepped out of defence. The wider centre backs really joined in the with the attacks last season, giving us more numbers going forward, but that isn't happening at all at the moment. Do you mean they played more central? This is their "event" maps from today. Rooney.... Kerr... McCart... And out strikers... These look shite just now, and the fact its all events and not just specific one ruins them, but not able to filter by passes received etc., yet. These'll look shite until I've mastered that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibbydoo Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 I think you are missing the point that these league / cup games are coming 48hrs after these boys are busting a gut to give us our European adventure that we are raving about. Putting (almost) the same 11 out 2 days later and expecting a top performance just simply isn't realistic. They now have 4 days to recover, 2 days just isn't enough, especially when you factor in travelling etc. Give them a fucking break! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 2 hours ago, steviemay17 said: This happened after the cup win in 2014, we immediately killed any enthusiasm and increased crowds by scoring less than a goal a game and generally they cam through set-pieces. I've supported Saints since I was 4 and have a season ticket so I'll keep going, but I struggle to see what's there to make the fairweather fans come back, so if we lose on Thursday the European attraction is gone, and a bottom half slug-fest without the ability to score quickly takes over and that's very difficult to sell.  41 minutes ago, Radford said: A bit (actually, more than a bit) disappointed how quiet we've been on transfer front, especially in attacking areas. Barely a week of the window left (and given Vertainen isn't over the line yet) we haven't added any jew attacking players. Not really too clever, is it?  31 minutes ago, Saint Stevo said: It's a strange place we are in transfer wise. Win on Thursday - fantastic, nice windfall, but we need to bolster the squad to cope with euro games and don't have much time. Lose on Thursday - May lose some of the squad and not much time to replace. I think we've left it too late to potentially get strong additions in. Maybe not, but I'm nervous. Unless we have some lined up depending on scenario we find ourselves in on Thursday. Agree with all.  It does feel like we’re perched at a major sliding doors moment. A win on Thursday and it’s group stage European football for the first time ever, a big cash boost, and the whole town buzzing; also a good chance of persuading all of our current players to stay at least until January, and potentially bring in 1 or 2 more. Lose and who knows what will happen late in the transfer market with our current squad, and its back to trying to sort our low scoring league form.  If we’d had 2-3 extra quality players in we might have been looking at top equal from three very winnable league matches, and even a victory in either away European match if we’d had more options to bring on. Lost Conway and Melamed from the second half of last season, with no one new to replace them in attacking areas when this was our big weakness, especially at home. It seems to be how we’ve gone the past couple of years, as if the start of the season suddenly happens and we’re not ready for it.   @steviemay17 mentioned it earlier, but there does feel like similarities to the start of the season after the 2014 cup win when May left on the last day of the window and we had no attacking options, and the extra few hundred season ticket holders we’d gained disappeared the season after. There’s no worries about relegation or anything drastic like that, but when we talk about kicking on and building on last season’s success, you do hope that we don’t let that opportunity slip through our fingers again. All down to Thursday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, shibbydoo said: I think you are missing the point that these league / cup games are coming 48hrs after these boys are busting a gut to give us our European adventure that we are raving about. Putting (almost) the same 11 out 2 days later and expecting a top performance just simply isn't realistic. They now have 4 days to recover, 2 days just isn't enough, especially when you factor in travelling etc. Give them a fucking break! I don’t think it’s the players that folk are highlighting here. It’s the lack of options to rotate those tired players. Admittedly we’ve been unlucky with Spoony and a couple of injuries though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, shibbydoo said: I think you are missing the point that these league / cup games are coming 48hrs after these boys are busting a gut to give us our European adventure that we are raving about. Putting (almost) the same 11 out 2 days later and expecting a top performance just simply isn't realistic. They now have 4 days to recover, 2 days just isn't enough, especially when you factor in travelling etc. Give them a fucking break! Are you under the impression that it's only two days since Thursday? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibbydoo Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: I don’t think it’s the players that folk are highlighting here. It’s the lack of options to rotate those tired players. Admittedly we’ve been unlucky with Spoony and a couple of injuries though. There's no solution to that, Saints were never going to pump up the squad on the off chance we make it through to the group stages. It is what is is, Thursday will decide how we proceed. Was always going to be the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibbydoo Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Pull My Strings said: Are you under the impression that it's only two days since Thursday? Haha fair point!! No excuse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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