Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Theyellowbox]

14 minutes ago, Shipa said:

 

Kind of agree with elements of both.

To me, we've played both cheeks, coming away with a point and a GD of -2. In isolation, I wouldn't be unhappy about that.

The big but, though, is that we have not then performed and got results where we maybe should have.

We have, at least in theory, an easier run of games coming up now, so just hoping that the team starts to properly gel, which in itself may help to cut out the individual errors ,and that, importantly, we can start to score goals.

If we get to the end of the first round of fixtures with no sign of improvement, then I'll start to worry.

I think this is the standout issue for me from the games this season. Individual errors. You can see from pretty much each goal we lose, that it comes from individual errors or players not being switched on. Obviously this is how most teams conced, but it's pretty simple errors we are making. If we cut them out, we will do OK. Some of it is inexperience and some is players just being off the boil. Celtic away is the standard of what can be done when the players are fully focused. Challenge is marrying this discipline in a defensive sense, with being more clinical up top. As Phillips said himself, that great chance he had vs Hibs 9/10 he at least hits the target. With a win behind us and a bit more belief, those wasted chances get increasingly converted. 

[Dick Van Dyke]

4 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

 

Also, we haven't been 'smashed' in any of the games, 

if it hadn't been for Mitov we'd have been on the end of a few hidings, i would even go as far as saying that we couldn't really complain if we'd lost every league game 4-0 

[Dick Van Dyke]

9 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

 As Phillips said himself, that great chance he had vs Hibs 9/10 he at least hits the target. 

would he though? he's never scored for us and has 1 career goal. i keep seeing that now Sprangler has signed it will allow Phillips to play further forward. why is that something we'd want?

[RandomGuy.]

Phillips is better further forward than holding IMO, but only because you can use his energy etc to press teams higher up the park. On the ball he doesnt give you enough so it needs complimented with someone up there who can do those things.

Sprangler + Phillips + someone who can pass the ball in the final 3rd + a focal point striker is probably the best set up.

Also...

Usually be November/December time this guys predictions are pretty close to what it ends like.

[Theyellowbox]

2 hours ago, Dick Van Dyke said:

if it hadn't been for Mitov we'd have been on the end of a few hidings, i would even go as far as saying that we couldn't really complain if we'd lost every league game 4-0 

But he is a goalkeeper. That's him doing his job. If the defence in front of him did theirs.... point is, it's not as if we are losing 4,5,6 nil. There is enough there to make me think that with a bit of hard work, organisation and good fortune we may do ok. Put another way, we are not performing in such a doomed way as we did when we last got relegated. That season it was innevitable we were going down as the squad had absolutely nothing about it. This is no where near as bad as that. 

[RandomGuy.]

17 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

But he is a goalkeeper. That's him doing his job. If the defence in front of him did theirs.... point is, it's not as if we are losing 4,5,6 nil. 

We could quite comfortably have lost 4-0 to both County and Hibs. Celtic score their 2 sitters and we probably capitulate there too. Thats ignoring us actually losing 4-0 to Stirling.

Im not sure where any optimism is coming from tbh, we're quite comfortably performing as the worst side in the league and while we should improve so should everyone else. They wont just stand still while we spend another month trying to work out our strongest side.

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[Theyellowbox]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

We could quite comfortably have lost 4-0 to both County and Hibs. Celtic score their 2 sitters and we probably capitulate there too. Thats ignoring us actually losing 4-0 to Stirling.

Im not sure where any optimism is coming from tbh, we're quite comfortably performing as the worst side in the league and while we should improve so should everyone else. They wont just stand still while we spend another month trying to work out our strongest side.

The optimism is that from albeit a very low base, I do see improvements in the team. Of course, others won't stand still, but compared to where we were in the LC group stages and the first few league games, you can see a structure starting to emerge. We need to cut out the mistakes and I will never be convinced a player like McPherson is good enough, but I do think there is enough in the squad we now have to get better results than we have had.

The Livi game is massive. A defeat there and a poor performance and then yeah, time to start worrying. I go back to 4 of the first 6 games being vs teams you'd expect to be top 6. Livi, County and Dundee will likely be the sides we will be looking to overcome to beat relegation. Win vs Livi and we will have 1 win, 1 draw and 1 loss. Not horrific given where we were.

[Broughty]

We have to find way to score urgently and that would help big time.

[Muirton Saint]

MacLean says Clark unlikely to be available on Saturday and Kane is a doubt. 

[RandomGuy.]

10 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

The optimism is that from albeit a very low base, I do see improvements in the team. Of course, others won't stand still, but compared to where we were in the LC group stages and the first few league games, you can see a structure starting to emerge.

Thats because we're playing senior players rather than kids. It would be nigh on impossible for their not to be improvements in our shape.

At this stage (effectively October, 10 competitive games in, signings all been here a month) i was hoping we'd be starting to see signs of this "high pressing attacking" football that MacLean probably made a rope for himself with by promising. We're currently at 5/6 games without a goal.

Big issue over the past few years has been the coaching staff not improving players and not getting the most from what they have, its hard not to feel thats continuing tbh. MacLean virtually admitting Jephcotts still not "up to speed" is really worrying, hes been here 2 months and hasnt been injured (?), whys he still not there fitness wise?

Edited September 26, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[The Saintee]

That's really quite a concerning story in the paper in regards to Jephcott. 

[Fife Saint]

2 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

That's really quite a concerning story in the paper in regards to Jephcott. 

Can you share?

 

[RandomGuy.]

23 minutes ago, Fife Saint said:

Can you share?

 

From the courier

Quote

Jephcott hasn’t started a game for a month.

Catching the eye through the week and when he gets substitute game-time is his solution to altering that.

“When he comes on he needs to affect the game and do well enough to put himself in my thoughts to start the next one,” said MacLean.

“I would have hoped he’d be fully up and running by now.

 

[The Saintee]

17 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

From the courier

 

There also appears to be a wee dig about his fitness and training attitude?

Or am I reading too much into it?

[Widge]

13 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

There also appears to be a wee dig about his fitness and training attitude?

Or am I reading too much into it?

I don't think so. Compare Jephcott to someone like Sven who's not played a competitive match in almost 4 months and was without a club for that entire period, yet he's come in straight away played 90 minutes and genuinely looked like he could play another 90. Now I know that people are physically different and clearly Jephcott isn't naturally fit, but for a professional footballer to have been training for 3 months now and not look like he's improving is a worry. Ok it's a new country, a new place of work and new people around him, but attitude and application still applies.

[RandomGuy.]

15 minutes ago, Widge said:

I don't think so. Compare Jephcott to someone like Sven who's not played a competitive match in almost 4 months and was without a club for that entire period, yet he's come in straight away played 90 minutes and genuinely looked like he could play another 90. 

Be interesting to see if Sprangler still looks like that in a months time...

[Widge]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Be interesting to see if Sprangler still looks like that in a months time...

I mean I know that a number of the players hire their own fitness guys, so......?

[Theyellowbox]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Thats because we're playing senior players rather than kids. It would be nigh on impossible for their not to be improvements in our shape.

At this stage (effectively October, 10 competitive games in, signings all been here a month) i was hoping we'd be starting to see signs of this "high pressing attacking" football that MacLean probably made a rope for himself with by promising. We're currently at 5/6 games without a goal.

Big issue over the past few years has been the coaching staff not improving players and not getting the most from what they have, its hard not to feel thats continuing tbh. MacLean virtually admitting Jephcotts still not "up to speed" is really worrying, hes been here 2 months and hasnt been injured (?), whys he still not there fitness wise?

I've been of the view for years that we should have refreshed the coaching staff more frequently. Although the players have changed, I think there needs to be some new voices and views amongst the backroom staff.

Agree with people's views on general fitness. A professional football should not need 3 months to get fit, unless there is an underlying injury.

I wonder if Sven getting thrown straight in was in part because we needed the freshness and in part to possibly satisfy part of his Visa. If I was govt, I'd look at how under used the last few foreign imports have been, Bair, Etu....

[gingermunkie]

16 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

I've been of the view for years that we should have refreshed the coaching staff more frequently. Although the players have changed, I think there needs to be some new voices and views amongst the backroom staff.

This! 1000x this!

Ridiculous we appointed a rookie manager and weakened the backroom staff with such a massive rebuild on the cards.

[DukDukGoose]

18 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Phillips is better further forward than holding IMO, but only because you can use his energy etc to press teams higher up the park. On the ball he doesnt give you enough so it needs complimented with someone up there who can do those things.

Sprangler + Phillips + someone who can pass the ball in the final 3rd + a focal point striker is probably the best set up.

Also...

Usually be November/December time this guys predictions are pretty close to what it ends like.

Watched some of your game on Saturday. I thought Phillips looked a really good player but looks like a player who takes one extra touch than he needs. Slows it down a bit.