Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Mr Heliums said:

I can't find any logic in an agent – knowing he's got the club's best player on his books – to allow Saints to broker a deal before he's seen what else is on offer at this stage of the season.

That's my point, we shouldve been offering him a deal well beyond this stage. This time last year was a perfect time to be doing it. Enough spare wage to offer Shaughnessy and Watt new contracts, enough money to sign Goss. If his agent gets another pay day just 6 months after the last one, and told we'll be happy to accept reasonable offers so he can still hawk around clubs trying to drum up interest, then I could fully have seen another year being added.

No point signing players at his age then not capatilsing on their value.

[sergie's no1 fan]

If Kennedy does not want to stay. Let him go in this window and free up a wage to bring in another player.
We have enough cover with O'Halloran Wright Swanson and Wotherspoon.

I thought Kennedy was the only player that looked threatening against us over the 2 games, and that was him on a couple of off days. To let him go in January would be risky imo. You mention some decent players to come in and replace him but do they have the same quality as him?

We did the same with Kenny McLean to Aberdeen and that all but sealed our relegation at the start of February.

[Widge]

I thought Kennedy was the only player that looked threatening against us over the 2 games, and that was him on a couple of off days. To let him go in January would be risky imo. You mention some decent players to come in and replace him but do they have the same quality as him?

We did the same with Kenny McLean to Aberdeen and that all but sealed our relegation at the start of February.

Ironically we played our best football last season with Wotherspoon on the left and had issues finding a place for Kennedy. He does bring goals and assists, but he does also drift in and out of form quickly, like any winger I guess.

[Kyle]

39 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

By the time they signed folk we were already bottom of the league and out the cup.

Of the deadline day signings Jason Holt was the only player they intended to wait on. Ralston a signing of circumstance purely due to Foster being punted. We didnt sign a left back until Bury died and Booth became available. By all reasoning the club/manager wanted to head into this season with Tanser, Foster and Duffy as full back options, and Kerr, Gordon and Vihmann as centre back options. That's what gives me the fear.

We've known for 12 months this situation was possible, and this time last season knew relegation wasnt going to be an issue. We shouldve been asking the question for the past year, especially when we were flying.

I cant find any logic, at all, on the agents part to only talk to us after hes aware of Aberdeens offer/talked to Aberdeen. Everyone knows we cant get near their offer so it's not as if itll help him negotiate a better deal there. Far more likely to me we've waiting until November/December time to ask to arrange talks, and the agents planned it for this week incase hes not received a better offer by now. I doubt this time last year he wouldve held off as long if we'd offered a decent pay rise. 

Instead we paid cash money to loan Sean Goss.

I actually forgot all about Booth signing just after the window closed - 8 players!

I think the manager has to take responsibility for the defence that he's built. You're right to point out that it was a pretty dire looking defence even before a ball was kicked but then you look at the wide options we have and you can see where all the money has gone. The manager has made some poor signings and some of the players given new contracts have regressed beyond their useful life, but it's not really the board's fault that's the case. 

You could make an argument that there are 11 or 12 players in the squad that fall below the level needed or are not justifying their high wage when you include the senior players out on loan and that's on the manager. Some of those listed would be harsh but probably aren't quite up to scratch in terms of development yet. Those players - including the loanees - are a drain on our finances when you're trying to build a competitive squad at this level. I think the manager by his own admission has been very well backed.

None of that means that I don't agree with your wider point. There's no evidence to suggest that this isn't happening,  but I think the board need to bail us out and let the manager sign a defender at the very least even if we can't get players out. Losing our place in the league will be much more costly than what will be 4 and a half months wages for one player and we run the risk of doing that if we don't strengthen the defence.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Kyle

[DukDukGoose]

8 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

The player said two weeks ago there had been no talks yet. He also claimed he was happy to stay.

Last week our manager said you and St Mirren had told us you planned to talk to him, that we hadnt spoken to him yet and we were planning to do so this week.

I never expected him to extend his deal with us, at any point of his contract, it's just the way the club constantly show themselves up, publicly, as such an amateur outfit.

What sort of club admits they havent bothered trying to get their best player on an extended contract until hes already spoken to bigger clubs?

Just sounds like our situation with GMS and we had definitely offered him a deal. 

[nelsjfc]

I can't find any logic in an agent – knowing he's got the club's best player on his books – to allow Saints to broker a deal before he's seen what else is on offer at this stage of the season. He wouldn't be doing his job if he did.
This situation happens year-in, year-out and not just with us. I'm amazed people get vexed about it afresh every year. Players make positive noises about wanting to stay, but that's all it is: noise. They'll do what agents tell them to do.

Quite.

From memory, Brown said they'd love to sign up Kennedy and Wright on longer deals at the August meeting but stated their agents wouldn't even speak to saints until January. As you'd expect tbh.

[Kyle]

Kind of my take on it as well. If you sign players of the calibre of Kennedy and Wright then you can only really count on them seeing out their initials contracts with the club, if they haven't been sold in the intervening time. If either or both renew it's a massive bonus... and probably another chunk of the budget away as they'll no doubt demand pretty decent pay rises to stay.

[DukDukGoose]

7 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Kind of my take on it as well. If you sign players of the calibre of Kennedy and Wright then you can only really count on them seeing out their initials contracts with the club, if they haven't been sold in the intervening time. If either or both renew it's a massive bonus... and probably another chunk of the budget away as they'll no doubt demand pretty decent pay rises to stay.

You're in a shitey situation to be honest. You can't offer a longer contract in case they are a flop and you can't get rid of them. Due to contract length and the unlikelihood of them extending on the back of some stellar performances you're unlikely to e ver be in a position to sell the player either.

[Templar]

45 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

You mention some decent players to come in and replace him but do they have the same quality as him?

It is not to replace him. We have enough cover in his position. It is to reinforce positions where we are weak.

I agree he has been one of our better players this season. 

[RandomGuy.]

43 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Just sounds like our situation with GMS and we had definitely offered him a deal. 

We had five wingers last February and no danger of relegation. If Kennedy was rejecting talks then we shouldve informed everyone he was available in the Summer. Off the back of the season he had we shouldn't have struggled to get a six figure fee.

Edited January 8, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[akuram]

If Kennedy does not want to stay. Let him go in this window and free up a wage to bring in another player.
We have enough cover with O'Halloran Wright Swanson and Wotherspoon.

Agree

[The Saintee]

It wouldn't be a transfer window without a Random guy meltdown at some point.

[Kyle]

We can't afford to let Kennedy go IMO - he's the only player we have that has been a consistent threat going forward. Others have been effective in fits and starts but Kennedy always looks capable of doing something in a game.

If we were comfortable in the table then maybe but not when we're fighting relegation.

[tree house tam]

2 minutes ago, Kyle said:

We can't afford to let Kennedy go IMO - he's the only player we have that has been a consistent threat going forward. Others have been effective in fits and starts but Kennedy always looks capable of doing something in a game.

If we were comfortable in the table then maybe but not when we're fighting relegation.

This is my thinking.

 

Then I hope he'd play like Liam Craig on a pre contract rather than like when MOH got his head turned.

[purefitbaw]

Hey Guys, 

 

on my podcast I spoke about what St Johnstone are doing with the tickets ( objectively) and also spoke about fan experience and what the club could maybe do different to attract more fans so that they don't have to rely on farming out stands. 

Caveat - This is not a dig at Saints , I would love to hear more about what fans think.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/clumsy-but-penetrative-title-of-your-sex-tape/id1454225083?i=1000461777445

 

Please note that the episode title is a quote from something that is said in the podcast relating to a lower league match we reviwed!! not spam or a dodgy link!

Edited January 8, 2020 by purefitbaw

[Kyle]

 

Edit: never mind - apparently that is the name of the episode.

 

Carry on.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Kyle

[nelsjfc]

We had five wingers last February and no danger of relegation. If Kennedy was rejecting talks then we shouldve informed everyone he was available in the Summer. Off the back of the season he had we shouldn't have struggled to get a six figure fee.

Sorry, this is nonsense. I can imagine what your reaction would have been if we'd sold Kennedy for 100-200k in the summer.

He's our best attacking player. I'd rather have him here for the season than some desperate attempt to cash in. Everyone knows when Kennedy's deal is up and everyone will know saints will have a price they'll listen to too

[RandomGuy.]

12 minutes ago, nelsjfc said:

Sorry, this is nonsense. I can imagine what your reaction would have been if we'd sold Kennedy for 100-200k in the summer.
 

If it was acknowledged we'd failed to extend his deal, I'd have accepted it, for £200k or higher which doesn't seem ridiculous. 

Theres no point not making money off these type of players when you've got them under contract, especially when we had enough depth in his position. 

The money is then reinvested into the squad.

That's how it should work for a club like us. 

[tree house tam]

Get that new wifey to f**k and put Random in there.

[sergie's no1 fan]

It is not to replace him. We have enough cover in his position. It is to reinforce positions where we are weak.
I agree he has been one of our better players this season. 

Apologies I should have made it clearer. I meant replacing him in the lineup with O'Hallaron, Swanson, Wotherspoon ect. Not signing someone else to replace him. On paper they should be good enough to replace him, none of them have really been at it this season though, consistently, have they?

Would be pretty ballsy to let him go, even if it let's you sign 1 or 2.

We can't afford to let Kennedy go IMO - he's the only player we have that has been a consistent threat going forward. Others have been effective in fits and starts but Kennedy always looks capable of doing something in a game.
If we were comfortable in the table then maybe but not when we're fighting relegation.

That's the way I see it from the outside.