Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Valentino Bolognese]

2 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Poorest Aberdeen youve ever seen ... minus 9 players ... plus a few involved who didnt train for 2 weeks and still we beat you and had more shots on target.

Eh?

That's sort of what I was meaning.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

40 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

This is exactly what I've been trying to put into words. 

Tommy Wright spent a couple of years building a very effective unit, based on a fairly restricted budget, that could play in a few shapes with considerable motivation and purpose. I've no idea why an incoming manager thinks that 3 up front and 2 in the middle works in any way for the players we have available. Even so, tonight we were by far the best team despite our manager and the poorest Aberdeen think I think I've ever seen. And we walk away with zero points. Anyone got confidence In Davidson's dressing room performance at full time?

Also I don't think that fans have a 'right' to inside information and god knows TW wasn't exactly fulsome with his information but WTF is happening with Stevie May?

He's injured and has been discussed in the media regarding it this week...

[Valentino Bolognese]

5 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

Absolutely agree that tonight was poor (being kind) and that a lot of the season has been poor so far, but my point was that it’s far too early to judge his tactical nous imo. He’s had four games and had two good results and one bad result out of those four, I just think it’s important he gets some time before we lay in to his tactics/ performances. In saying that, I am so far from convinced by the 3-4-3 and would seriously hope he backtracks from that. 
 

 

I was giving a bit of an escape lane with 'armchair fans' comment. He's a professional with a good record that sees the players every day in training, so faith and time should be given.

Think I'm being swayed by his media / Saints TV performances. He just doesn't seem to have the gravitas, confidence or passion that other successful managers have at this level, and h doesn't exactly have a deep squad to pull from. Still tonight was just terrible.

@Mr Positive, sometimes. I must have missed that. Link?

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

@Valentino Bolognese

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/callum-davidson-expects-aberdeen-reaction-22542326

There's one. 

[tree house tam]

8 hours ago, kingjoey said:

This is like reading the St Johnstone Thread at this very time last season.

It's really not though. Last season the guys who could see the problem knew it would be fixed by the end of the window and it would be an upward spiral.

This season every single one of us can see a rookie manager with a set way of playing, sticking to that system even if it isn't working. He won't be allowed to make wholesale changes to the squad, partly because of the pandemic and mostly because you cannot do this at St Johnstone but yet has this philosophy on football to be played a certain way.

That fucking way is like Millwall ffs.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

It's really not though. Last season the guys who could see the problem knew it would be fixed by the end of the window and it would be an upward spiral.

This season every single one of us can see a rookie manager with a set way of playing, sticking to that system even if it isn't working. He won't be allowed to make wholesale changes to the squad, partly because of the pandemic and mostly because you cannot do this at St Johnstone but yet has this philosophy on football to be played a certain way.

That fucking way is like Millwall ffs.

Worth mentioning that Millwall don't play that set up every week. Predominantly its away from home, or against the strongest teams in the league.

[tree house tam]

28 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Worth mentioning that Millwall don't play that set up every week. Predominantly its away from home, or against the strongest teams in the league.

It's pish and doesn't work with the players at Saints. What does work with the players at Saints is when we use 2 or 3 systems that the players can actually play and thrive in. A bit like we have done for years.

Edited August 21, 2020 by tree house tam

[mizfit]

It’s not like we’ve had the usual pre season plus Betfred cup to experiment with the squad this year.

I’m not worried in the slightest.

My main concern is Aberdeen improved after their subs. This 5 subs rule could really affect us.

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, mizfit said:

This 5 subs rule could really affect us.

Hedges was their 4th sub, so that's the first time we've lost a game due to the new sub rule, if anyone wanting to keep a running tally.

[Munoz]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Hedges was their 4th sub, so that's the first time we've lost a game due to the new sub rule, if anyone wanting to keep a running tally.

I thought you lost game because you were slightly more pish than Aberdeen. 

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, mizfit said:

It’s not like we’ve had the usual pre season plus Betfred cup to experiment with the squad this year.

I’m not worried in the slightest.

My main concern is Aberdeen improved after their subs. This 5 subs rule could really affect us.

Quality, not quantity, was the difference. 

Logan, Bryson, Hedges, Kennedy and McLennan is quite a bit more firepower than Conway, Robertson, Tanto and Rooney. 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

The problem that caused us to lose that game wasn't the extra subs.  players didn't come on and change the game. Although Hedges at least ran at a man. 

Our problems are our own making. Fine if you want to go wide at all opportunities but that's all we do. We labour the ball around and get it wide and once it's wide it goes in the box no matter what. We don't work the ball into a better position or get the ball to the byline. Once it's wide, no matter if we're still deep, it gets hoisted into the box.. As were doing it so slowly by the time the ball goes into the box it needs to beat multiple men to get into a threatning area as the defensive unit are set and prepared. If we're going to go wide regularly we need to do it quickly and get overlaps or runs inside the full back like Spoony did against Killie in the second half. Give them a decision to make, close the ball, track runners etc. We make it easy for them instead we just hit it right into the near post central defender.

In possession as well when the ball comes into the front 3 far to often when we had the opportunity to commit men and had chance to ran at the back 4 we chose not and just meandered  towards the wide area before rolling it to the wing back. The few times we did run at the back 4 MOH was taken out & Hendry made the wrong choice. We made it easy for them. 

Let's not even talk about the delivery or decision making. Nearly every time it was wrong in the final third. Shooting when there's next to zero chance to score. We need to show more composure. If we don't, it's going to be a long season as not every week are we going to be gifted goals like at Killie. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[Radford]

I don't have the time or inclination to produce as much effort as @RandomGuy. will on analysis but it's nice being able to look things up that you maybe notice during a game.

Liam Gordon and long balls: 13 long passes attempted, 3 successful. Not good enough.

Crosses from the right (McNamara, Kerr, Wotherspoon): 13 attempted, 2 successful. Not good enough.

But if the manager has been working on a shape during pre-season, I think it's perfectly understandable that he's going to use it in our first home game. Equally, I agree that you need to find a system that suits what you have and he'll need to make a call on that at some point, or be allowed to bring in the players that he needs.

We'll see what (a much tougher test on) Sunday brings. 

[Mr Heliums]

48 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Let's not even talk about the delivery or decision making. Nearly every time it was wrong in the final third. 

Epitomised by Tanser, with plenty of time, delivering a cross into the box where there were no St Johnstone players. Couldn't work out whether to fault Tanser or our front three, but kind of summed the game up.

[tree house tam]

38 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

Epitomised by Tanser, with plenty of time, delivering a cross into the box where there were no St Johnstone players. Couldn't work out whether to fault Tanser or our front three, but kind of summed the game up.

How can you play 3 up front and have nobody in the box when the wing back is crossing? How the f**k is that even possible?

They're meant to be professional football players, that is their primary job, the thing they excel at in life. Absolute joke.

[Center half]

39 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

How can you play 3 up front and have nobody in the box when the wing back is crossing? How the f**k is that even possible?

They're meant to be professional football players, that is their primary job, the thing they excel at in life. Absolute joke.

Because we did not know the Aberdeen team! we could not plan who should be marking who and who should be in the box when we were attacking i suppose?

 

[tree house tam]

45 minutes ago, Center half said:

Because we did not know the Aberdeen team! we could not plan who should be marking who and who should be in the box when we were attacking i suppose?

 

Rule number one of a gameplan is know what your role is in that gameplan and understand everyone elses role in the formation. If we are playing 3 up front with no attackers in the box when a wing back has the opportunity to cross there are multiple people at fault, from Davidson downwards.

Also if Callum thinks that performance was acceptable,  as he has said in interviews,  the games fucked.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

15 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Rule number one of a gameplan is know what your role is in that gameplan and understand everyone elses role in the formation. If we are playing 3 up front with no attackers in the box when a wing back has the opportunity to cross there are multiple people at fault, from Davidson downwards.

Also if Callum thinks that performance was acceptable,  as he has said in interviews,  the games fucked.

11 shots. 1 on target. 

No way acceptable. At home against a very poor side. 

Thinking back to the game last night  From memory I can't remember a single occasion where we tried to play through our central midfielders? 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[Bose]

1 hour ago, Center half said:

Because we did not know the Aberdeen team! we could not plan who should be marking who and who should be in the box when we were attacking i suppose?

 

Are you saying the players couldn’t look around and think there’s a big guy I’m tall I’ll mark him then tell others? Or that they couldn’t work out to get into the box when someone had the ball out wide or think there’s bodies in the box I’ll stay? That because every step hadn’t been planned for them they were fucked?  

[PauloPerth]

A few folk have mentioned how poor our crossing has been, which is true.  But the positions we are in to cross the ball are a big factor. We rarely get in behind a defence to put a ball in between the keeper and defenders facing their own goal for our forwards to run onto.  

Nearly every cross I've seen us attempt this season has been from roughly in line with the 18 yard line, or deeper, with defenders standing facing up the park waiting on the cross, usually crowding out Hendry so that even if he did win it, there would be little chance of getting enough power or direction on a header.  Its no wonder the crosses always hit defenders; if it wasn't the front defender it would be one of the ones behind.  If we're looking at a game plan of creating chances through crosses from wide areas, then we need to find a way of getting our wide players in behind running towards the byeline to play a dangerous cross.

Its a ridiculous ask to play a telling cross into strikers standing waiting on the delivery surrounded by 4 defenders.

Obviously the equaliser v killie was that type of delivery, but that should have been an easy clearance, and we're not going to get gifts like that every week.