Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Radford]

A good goalkeeper saves the second one. Unfortunately, we don't have a good goalkeeper. Takes him half-an-hour to get down to anything that's low.

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

A good goalkeeper saves the second one. Unfortunately, we don't have a good goalkeeper. Takes him half-an-hour to get down to anything that's low.

I think this is probably true, but (a) even if he saves it, we were still losing the game yesterday and (b) the wider issue is that goalkeeping isn't our biggest problem this year. 

It's a very strange situation all round. It seems that nomatter what shape we play we can't get the ball in the net and for all that we're talking up the defence because opposition are getting very few chances, the fact is they are scoring from the chances they get. 

In two games time we'll have played everyone in the league (and had some cup action) so probably time to take a longer view. To me there's only two possibilities. Either we're just on a terrible run of luck and the variance will even itself out, and the goals will come, or there's  something fundamentally wrong. Sadly I'm leaning slightly towards option 2, but that's just based on what seems from the outside to be an unmotivated team that seems low on self belief. 

It was interesting that the commentator on Saints TV asked about morale twice yesterday. He asked Booth* what the atmosphere was like in the team, and he asked Kane what the body language was saying, so other people are noticing this. 

However, still happy to give Davidson time to turn this around. Bad season for your first managerial job IMO but he was handed a squad that could do the job. 

 

*Callum Booth was man of the match for me yesterday. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Valentino Bolognese

[Radford]

Agree that we are where we are with the goalkeeper, not just because of budget but because he'll be a big earner so it doesn't pay to have him on the bench and nobody is going to take him off our hands.

I still think things will turn for us but the manager needs to have confidence in his convictions. The change of shape yesterday was unnecessary and counterproductive.

I don't mind if he wants to alter the shape to suit but yesterday felt it was too reactive.

Our squad suits 3-5-2, so work around that.

[Valentino Bolognese]

50 minutes ago, Radford said:

Agree that we are where we are with the goalkeeper, not just because of budget but because he'll be a big earner so it doesn't pay to have him on the bench and nobody is going to take him off our hands.

I still think things will turn for us but the manager needs to have confidence in his convictions. The change of shape yesterday was unnecessary and counterproductive.

I don't mind if he wants to alter the shape to suit but yesterday felt it was too reactive.

Our squad suits 3-5-2, so work around that.

I agree that 3-5-2 suits us. McCart makes Tanser less of a bombscare and he can defend higher up. Both him and McNamara were definitely less impactful yesterday. Allows Kerr to get forward. 

Davidson and McCann are the core of a good midfield, Conway/Spoony for more attack, Craig  for more defence. May and Hendry up top, Kane for sitting in. MOH off the bench but only when when he can run at tired defences. I'd like us to have a natural number 10 to sit in behind the front 2 as Conway, Wotherspoon and MOH are all better wide. 

It's all a bit academic though as the teams that we've put out this year should have us sitting better than bottom of the league after 9 games. It's that simple really. 

[RandomGuy.]

Nobody wants to hear what the xG score was from the weekend according to WyScout was, do they...

[nelsjfc]

I agree that 3-5-2 suits us. McCart makes Tanser less of a bombscare and he can defend higher up. Both him and McNamara were definitely less impactful yesterday. Allows Kerr to get forward. 
Davidson and McCann are the core of a good midfield, Conway/Spoony for more attack, Craig  for more defence. May and Hendry up top, Kane for sitting in. MOH off the bench but only when when he can run at tired defences. I'd like us to have a natural number 10 to sit in behind the front 2 as Conway, Wotherspoon and MOH are all better wide. 
It's all a bit academic though as the teams that we've put out this year should have us sitting better than bottom of the league after 9 games. It's that simple really. 

Agree entirely with this. This gets the best of our players.

Callum seems keen to squeeze MoH into that shape somehow though. I sort of get why with a lack of pace elsewhere but think when we're playing with wing backs MoH doesn't really fit outside a really attacking option at right wing back. I'd take Wotherspoon over Conway currently too.

[Highland Capital]

Howdy Perthers (?).  Apparently Caley Thistle are in for Wallace Duffy?  Is he any good?  

[PauloPerth]

I had no issue with the change of shape, though I'm probably in the minority. We had a dire lack of goals and were often playing 3 centre backs against 1 striker, (though it did allow Kerr to push forward on occasions), so a change of formation to match up with Livi was not a huge leftfield decision.  I'm completely okay with our manager going horses for courses rather than sticking rigidly to a set way of playing. It was a strength of the previous manager.

It was a typical fairly close match at Livingston, though I'd say we had more attempts at goal there than we've done in the previous 3 matches since they came back up combined, where there have generally been some brutal midfield battles with very few chances either way. Our 1-0 win where Kennedy scored, the 3-1 defeat and the 1-0 defeat on a cold night last winter were all as shite matches to watch as you can get.

Up until the opening goal, we had gotten in behind them on a couple of occasions but again failed to capitalise.  The opener was down to an individual mistake after our set piece, the formation didn't come into it.  The instant second goal really knocked the stuffing out of us.  I felt the match followed a similar pattern to the previous one in that we were on top until falling behind then lost our way a bit when we gave the opposition something to defend before a brief flurry in the second half.

Our squad has plenty of quality for this level. We need to get ahead in a match and give ourself something to defend and counter on teams instead of the other way round.  I think that would really suit the players we have.

 

[Valentino Bolognese]

4 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

Howdy Perthers (?).  Apparently Caley Thistle are in for Wallace Duffy?  Is he any good?  

Looking forward to this ...

[tree house tam]

8 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

Howdy Perthers (?).  Apparently Caley Thistle are in for Wallace Duffy?  Is he any good?  

Same level as Rooney, 2 for the price of one?

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

3 hours ago, Highland Capital said:

Howdy Perthers (?).  Apparently Caley Thistle are in for Wallace Duffy?  Is he any good?  

Barely kicked a ball for Saints since Nov last year. 

My take on him is he looks like a central defender playing out of position when at right back and when he's played a centre back he struggled against any moment or pace. 

His best performance was against Uche when Levein brought Hearts to Perth and lumped it down the middle for 90 mins. 

Don't think he had played any first team football before last season so probably shouldn't be to critical but unconvinced his football career will continue at the full time level much longer. 

Although Rooney who for all accounts did well at ICT has struggled in his minimal game time as well so who knows. 

I think he's desperate to play so hopefully he can do well if he heads to Inverness on loan. 

[andrewh]

Nobody wants to hear what the xG score was from the weekend according to WyScout was, do they...

Go on...

[Highland Capital]

3 hours ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Barely kicked a ball for Saints since Nov last year. 

My take on him is he looks like a central defender playing out of position when at right back and when he's played a centre back he struggled against any moment or pace. 

His best performance was against Uche when Levein brought Hearts to Perth and lumped it down the middle for 90 mins. 

Don't think he had played any first team football before last season so probably shouldn't be to critical but unconvinced his football career will continue at the full time level much longer. 

Although Rooney who for all accounts did well at ICT has struggled in his minimal game time as well so who knows. 

I think he's desperate to play so hopefully he can do well if he heads to Inverness on loan. 

Oh that doesn't sound like what we need.  We need a proper right back/wing back.  We're pretty set for centre backs already. (Got Brad Mckay and Danny Devine don't ya know!)

Edited September 27, 2020 by Highland Capital

[The Saintee]

8 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Nobody wants to hear what the xG score was from the weekend according to WyScout was, do they...

In the minus?

[Jamie_B]

We’ll have been ahead in it. Again. Almost certainly. I only saw the second half in full but we had a couple of chances from fairly close in-the Hendry shot and a Kerr header in particular. I don’t think Livingston has much second half. And by all accounts it was pretty even, with us having had the best chance, before Livi scored.

[Widge]

We’ll have been ahead in it. Again. Almost certainly. I only saw the second half in full but we had a couple of chances from fairly close in-the Hendry shot and a Kerr header in particular. I don’t think Livingston has much second half. And by all accounts it was pretty even, with us having had the best chance, before Livi scored.

I’d imagine Mays chance where he hit the target, plus the volley in the box with nobody near him will score highly. Plus Conways when he was actually clean through but sent it miles over the bat, chances where the whole goal is available score highly.

Plus the other ones you mentioned. Livi ain’t going to be score highly given once again we conceded with virtually the only 2 chances we actually gave away!

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, Widge said:

Plus the other ones you mentioned. Livi ain’t going to be score highly given once again we conceded with virtually the only 2 chances we actually gave away!

 

So do we have a good defence, as he opposition don't get many chances, or a terrible defence because they score every chance they get?

Discuss.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Valentino Bolognese said:

So do we have a good defence, as he opposition don't get many chances, or a terrible defence because they score every chance they get?

Discuss.

Poor goalkeepers. 

Defence are restricting opportunities/quality of chances against, impossible to prevent every shot.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Poor goalkeepers. 

Defence are restricting opportunities/quality of chances against, impossible to prevent every shot.

There's definitely an aspect of individual error involved not just from a GK perspective, although some dodgy goalkeeping in there. At other moments Parish has made some decent saves. 

MOH for the first goal at the weekend. 

McCann didn't cover himself in glory for Motherwell goal. 

Rooney's indecision for Killie goal. 

Tanser has to do a lot better for Aberdeen goal. It was almost pathetic.

They compound the fact we can't score and contribute to our own downfall going behind consistently through avoidable goals. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

There's definitely an aspect of individual error involved not just from a GK perspective, although some dodgy goalkeeping in there. At other moments Parish has made some decent saves. 

MOH for the first goal at the weekend. 

McCann didn't cover himself in glory for Motherwell goal. 

Rooney's indecision for Killie goal. 

Tanser has to do a lot better for Aberdeen goal. It was almost pathetic.

They compound the fact we can't score and contribute to our own downfall going behind consistently through avoidable goals. 

Tbf most goals can be sourced to a defensive mistake.

For Livis first McNamara is side by side with the goalscorer in the box, then just walks away leaving him free to tap in. Nobody seems to mention that though...

Going to look deeper into it, but believe we counter attack less, while having more touches around the opposition box. Our high xG is almost entirely accumulation rather than outright quality, if that makes sense.