Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[tree house tam]

20 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

No seen st Mirren fans on our thread so much recently. A couple of months ago they were all over it celebrating our failings.

I guess we’re of no interest now that they’re an established top six side and got their sights set on European football…

Too early Paulo, things can change VERY quickly where we are.

 

Would be as funny as f**k if we pipped them to 10th on the last day though.

[Valentino Bolognese]

27 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Too early Paulo, things can change VERY quickly where we are.

 

Would be as funny as f**k if we pipped them to 10th on the last day though.

If by some miracle it turns out we need a result against Dundee for that to happen in the last game and they're already down, I fully expect out Tayside brethren to do the decent thing.  

[PauloPerth]

1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

Too early Paulo, things can change VERY quickly where we are.

 

Would be as funny as f**k if we pipped them to 10th on the last day though.

I know Tam, was thinking that as well as we’re still strong favourites for second bottom. 

But it was just a bit weird how much pleasure they took in our misery. I don’t think many Saints fans have ever really cared much either way what happens to the Paisley pandas.

I mean, it’s never going to happen in a million years, but like you say if we were to somehow sneak above them…

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

I mean, it’s never going to happen in a million years, but like you say if we were to somehow sneak above them…

Curious how their position say 10 games ago compares to the relegated Hibs side.

Celebrating top 6 and the relegation of another side, only to be relegated yourselves, all over again.

Edited April 2, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[PauloPerth]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Curious how their position say 10 games ago compares to the relegated Hibs side.

Celebrating top 6 and the relegation of another side, only to be relegated yourselves, all over again.

Funnily enough I thought about that same comparison earlier. But then I guess I could be guilty of the same bringing it up before season end and we could still easily end up relegated.  Just enjoying the reversal of fortunes when they were so cocky, even if is only temporary. 
 

A lot of big matches next week for teams chasing top six; trying to work out the best match ups for us post split.  Probably the teams in the bottom six right now to lose is best, as that would mean the gap isn’t any wider.  
I do wonder if Aberdeen and Hibs finishing bottom six might be a good thing; their fans will obviously have expected top six so their home matches might turn a bit toxic and difficult for them to play in. On the flip side, in theory they have the better players so might just click and cruise the last 5.

At least for a rare occasion next weekend the pressure is on everyone else and we’ve got a bit of a free hit.  After that, our remaining matches will probably be nail-biting scrappy affairs like our last couple.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

A lot of big matches next week for teams chasing top six; trying to work out the best match ups for us post split.  

I think you want the ones with new managers (Hibernian/Aberdeen/St Mirren) as they're likely to experiment with a view to next season if they consider themselves safe. They'll all be thinking 10th isn't bad as they can blame the former manager. Then Livingston since we seem like a total jinx to them.

[Derry Alli]

13 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

If by some miracle it turns out we need a result against Dundee for that to happen in the last game and they're already down, I fully expect out Tayside brethren to do the decent thing.  

[RandomGuy.]

Yesterday just the second time we've won consecutive league games under Davidson. 2 wins in a row in March last season the only other time.

Best 5 game haul under him is 10pts, 3 wins a draw and a loss.

Needs to match that, or beat it, after the split really.

[Widge]

If the form guide stays the same over the next 6 games as the last 6 games, we scrape 10th by a single point. Interestingly I had this conversation with my father , who was resigned to staying 11th at best. He was worried that Dundee can still catch us, but didn’t believe we could catch St Mirren, until I pointed out the points difference is the same for both, yet GD is negligible for us at St Mirren given it’s the same.  

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Widge said:

If the form guide stays the same over the next 6 games as the last 6 games, we scrape 10th by a single point. Interestingly I had this conversation with my father , who was resigned to staying 11th at best. He was worried that Dundee can still catch us, but didn’t believe we could catch St Mirren, until I pointed out the points difference is the same for both, yet GD is negligible for us at St Mirren given it’s the same.  

The priority after the split is beating Dundee and St Mirren, then you see what else happens, for me.

I think we'll be 3pts off 12th going into the split.

[Valentino Bolognese]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

The priority after the split is beating Dundee and St Mirren, then you see what else happens, for me.

I think we'll be 3pts off 12th going into the split.

If the first part happens I think we're in reasonable shape given the Paisley freefall. Nothing suggests Robinson is turning that around. I also think we've got some evidence that the players that are likely leaving us aren't downing tools, particularly Zander who has an international place to try to keep and Hendry who must see that his stock is high and pulling the club out of a relegation tailspin would be a big boost to the CV. 

Don't get the second part though. Other than 'that's just how football works', not seeing Dundee beating Utd next week. 

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Don't get the second part though. Other than 'that's just how football works', not seeing Dundee beating Utd next week. 

Dundee are due a result and can score goals, especially now Adam is back. United are inconsistent (2 wins in 10). 

Just reeks of a Dundee win to me.

[PauloPerth]

Reading the comments from Saints fans on the match thread about next season.

Criticism for this season is well justified, but I think it’s harsh to criticise our recent quality of play. Let’s be honest, for the previous and next 6 weeks all that matters is points and staying up.  The return to showing a lot of fight, and being organised, are surely all we can reasonably expect?

On the one hand, if we do stay up I like to think Callum will have learned a lot from this season, but on the other I can’t help thinking that his priority will always be defending first and foremost. It’s just his nature, and I can’t see that changing.  I share the concerns about our squad though. It still feels like we are massively reliant on a core of players with others just filling spaces around them: Clark, Gordon, McCart, Davidson, Hendry. Several of which potentially won’t be here next season.

As much of an improvement on the first half of the season as Cleary has been, he’s a fair bit behind our other two centre backs quality wise, and Cleary is arguably our most successful January signing.

Unless Preston continue their slide and Callum gets the call in the summer, then he’s 100% here next season.  Our board will be only too aware of what has happened to every other club around us who has replaced a manager in pursuit of better. 

As an aside, whilst our pitch is terrible, Livi still managed to get it down and play so I don’t think it’s the sole factor.

[Valentino Bolognese]

10 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Reading the comments from Saints fans on the match thread about next season.

Criticism for this season is well justified, but I think it’s harsh to criticise our recent quality of play. Let’s be honest, for the previous and next 6 weeks all that matters is points and staying up.  The return to showing a lot of fight, and being organised, are surely all we can reasonably expect?

On the one hand, if we do stay up I like to think Callum will have learned a lot from this season, but on the other I can’t help thinking that his priority will always be defending first and foremost. It’s just his nature, and I can’t see that changing.  I share the concerns about our squad though. It still feels like we are massively reliant on a core of players with others just filling spaces around them: Clark, Gordon, McCart, Davidson, Hendry. Several of which potentially won’t be here next season.

As much of an improvement on the first half of the season as Cleary has been, he’s a fair bit behind our other two centre backs quality wise, and Cleary is arguably our most successful January signing.

Unless Preston continue their slide and Callum gets the call in the summer, then he’s 100% here next season.  Our board will be only too aware of what has happened to every other club around us who has replaced a manager in pursuit of better. 

As an aside, whilst our pitch is terrible, Livi still managed to get it down and play so I don’t think it’s the sole factor.

The 'relative form' table on the soccerstats website is usually interesting IMO., and it has us as being on the second best improvement run in the division after County, with both of us having one game against an OF team in the same period. Walking away with nothing from Dingwall after going a goal up was likely the most significant of our results since the New Year. 

It's possible that not all the spine players will leave. I'd like to hang on the hope we might keep Hendry and I'd think that in form, Hendry and Kane would be a decent front pairing for this league. 

If what we hear is true, McCart already has a good replacement in Mahon. I think Murry still has a season in him but he's not reliable injury-wise. 

Zander's certain to move on though. 

 

[PauloPerth]

Yes I'm still hopeful about Hendry staying. If McCart was signed up as well then that would be tremendous. 

As well as the pressure, the poor quality, and missing outon league placing cash, a big negative of where we are is the difficulty in preparing for next season.  It's unlikely we'll know our fate until the second last game at the earliest, whereas a team that sneaks into 6th next week can start looking at contract renewals and new signings right away.

[RandomGuy.]

59 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Let’s be honest, for the previous and next 6 weeks all that matters is points and staying up.  The return to showing a lot of fight, and being organised, are surely all we can reasonably expect?

Why? He got £250k to spend, huge wages to offer, and the largest squad we've had in the top division since promotion.

Why should fight, grit and organisation not just be the minimum expectation from a St Johnstone side? Do we really praise him for that when it's present in every Saints side for a decade and only went missing when he built his own squad?

The turn around since January deserves credit but I'm hugely reluctant to praise someone for merely beginning to sort their own mistakes. He led us into a situation where we have to accept that attempting shite, ground out, 1-0 victories as acceptable every week.

There's no signs at all he's learned anything beyond signing proven players is better than loaning kids.

[PauloPerth]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Why? He got £250k to spend, huge wages to offer, and the largest squad we've had in the top division since promotion.

Why should fight, grit and organisation not just be the minimum expectation from a St Johnstone side? Do we really praise him for that when it's present in every Saints side for a decade and only went missing when he built his own squad?

The turn around since January deserves credit but I'm hugely reluctant to praise someone for merely beginning to sort their own mistakes. He led us into a situation where we have to accept that attempting shite, ground out, 1-0 victories as acceptable every week.

There's no signs at all he's learned anything beyond signing proven players is better than loaning kids.

Because from January all that mattered was staying up. We made a lot of signings, with little time to bed them in and gel the team. We'd lost something like 9 out of 10 of our previous league matches.

I'm not dishing out praise, just saying I don't expect much silky entertaining football in the midst of a relegation battle. The fact that we've gone from being a team who were a bit of a shambles at the back, appeared to have little fight, barely got around the opposition box, to one that is now matching most of the other 9 clubs we reasonably can expect points from, is probably all the improvement I was looking for in the situation we were in.

Different over the course of the season, i don't think anyone would be happy if yesterday is the norm from August onwards.  But if it keeps us up now, then I can accept it.

 

[RandomGuy.]

38 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

The fact that we've gone from being a team who were a bit of a shambles at the back, appeared to have little fight, barely got around the opposition box, to one that is now matching most of the other 9 clubs we reasonably can expect points from, is probably all the improvement I was looking for in the situation we were in.

It would've been literally impossible for us not have improved from January. To me we've not improved much at all. We're just getting our luck now and with Hendry we've got someone who's a proper match winner, which is usually vital for teams at the bottom. 

Earlier in the season we don't get a penalty yesterday, Livi get there's, and Obileye scores his free header from 2 yards.

Motherwell hit the post from about 3 yards before our winner the week before.

We still regularly go through games with just 1 shot on target.

I'm happy we're winning games, but this narrative building that "St Johnstone are back" is just wrong, and my head still tells me we'll be finishing closer to the bottom of the league than 10th by the end.

[PauloPerth]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm happy we're winning games, but this narrative building that "St Johnstone are back" is just wrong, and my head still tells me we'll be finishing closer to the bottom of the league than 10th by the end.

Where is this being said?

Agree about the luck being far more on our side the past couple of games.

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Where is this being said?

Agree about the luck being far more on our side the past couple of games.

Its probably just me misreading things, but I see a lot of people suggesting that because the players are working hard that its a sign we've recovered and they seem to infer we will now cruise to safety because of that.

I'm worried a feeling of "job done" starts to seep into the club now and they think the performances are acceptable. We're still not playing well, we're just not playing abysmally anymore. There needs to be a continuous improvement and I've not seen any for weeks now. Feels to me like we've reached a stage where we can defend well and hope Hendry snatches a winner and seem happy with that as our lot.

Fully accepted we needed to just dig in and stop the rot after the winter break, but we've never poked our heads out that ditch since and it'll keep us from reaching 10th. Theres so many missed opportunities that have been thrown away because we've not been brave enough. We can't afford to blow 11th, which is still possible, because we think we can just grind out 1-0 wins every week.