Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[johnoswald2712]

17 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Kirk decides tactics, shape and football philosophy. Think he's been on the same course as Callum and most other young identikit thick as f**k ex players. Levein manages, what the f**k he manages I don't actually know because to manage you need to lead by example, get everyone going in the right direction and doing things that help them excel. He does none of that.

But...... We are not sacking him with 4-6 games left, especially since those games will decide the future of the club for the next few years. 

Hope to f**k wee Adama is okay by the way. If he's out that's a major blow.

Why aren’t we sacking him? We sacked Callum last season with 6 games left because it was obvious the decision needed to be taken. Yesterday proved the same decision needs to be taken again. My only concern is Stan Harris tried to get Martindale , whose team looks like being relegated, and then settled on a guy whose philosophy is so dated it wouldn’t be out of place in the 1950s. Just because he’s a lifelong fan doesn’t mean he’s qualified to make these type of decisions 

[Radford]

Even looking ahead, whatever league we are in, Levein will no doubt spend the middle chunk of June in Germany doing media stuff, just as MacLean spent last summer in Romania doing a badge.

Get him out and get in someone who wants to put all their focus on trying to reverse the fortunes of this ailing football club.

With every passing game, I become more sure that relegation and building a new squad (even if it takes time) is the only way out of this mess.

The two new strikers (credit to Levein for them) and Mitov are the only players I have the slightest admiration for. The rest can please go. No chat about how they might be better under a new manager. Losers who deserve the ignominy of ending 15 years in the division.

Edited April 28 by Radford

[RandomGuy.]

35 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

If Levein takes us down it’s time for him to give up managerial roles for good and return to his punditry / podcasts etc. He’ll forever be remembered as that guy who played a 4-6-0 and then got St. Johnstone, an established top flight club, relegated. Time for him to call it a day if that happens. 

Worth remembering that 10 years ago he was appointed as Hearts DOF and spoke as if he wanted to do that rather than manage.

His talk about "one last roll of the dice" when taking our job suggests he'll retire after us regardless.

31 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Kirk decides tactics, shape and football philosophy. Think he's been on the same course as Callum and most other young identikit thick as f**k ex players. Levein manages, what the f**k he manages I don't actually know because to manage you need to lead by example, get everyone going in the right direction and doing things that help them excel. He does none of that.

It's absolutely wild that they've been here since November and it's still not clear who's actually in charge. Everyone says something different with some saying Levein is actually manager and Kirk just follows instructions, then others say Kirk is defacto manager and Levein is just a front.

I still struggle to believe Levein would be making the tactical mistakes we make (which are currently the exact same ones Davidson made), but I struggle to see why he'd risk so much of his reputation to protect Kirk in that way.

[Jamie_B]

6 minutes ago, Radford said:

Even looking ahead, whatever league we are in, Levein will no doubt spend the middle chunk of June in Germany doing media stuff, just as MacLean spent last summer in Romania doing a badge.

Get him out and get in someone who wants to put all their focus on trying to reverse the fortunes of this ailing football club.

Aith every passing game, I become more sure that relegation and building a new squad (even if it takes time) is the only way out of this mess.

The two new strikers (credit to Levein for them) and Mitov are the only players I have the slightest admiration for. The rest can please go. No chat about how they might be better under a new manager. Losers who deserve the ignominy of ending 15 years in the division.

Pretty much this. And as far as the mention of Mitov goes, I genuinely think we’d have suffered multiple 6/7 goal tankings this season if we didn’t have him.

Yesterday was an abomination. I don’t want Levein here next season and the overwhelmingly majority of the players can leave.

The spine of the 2014 squad was at the club for years after that cup win, and there was a process that regenerated that spine over the following 5/6 years.

When that (mostly) new squad won the double the spine was gone inside two years - only May and Gordon remain - and the replacements were transients, loans and above all, massive downgrades on what left. All managed by a succession of not very good managers.

When you look back at it, it shows you how bad Davidson was in 21/22 that he took a team with McCart, Rooney, Hendry and Clark to the playoffs.

[Theyellowbox]

26 minutes ago, Radford said:

With every passing game, I become more sure that relegation and building a new squad (even if it takes time) is the only way out of this mess.

I always find this viewpoint a mental one. Whether we stay up or go down, this squad gets ripped up and we start again.

If we did go down, we'd be getting in players with the sole intention of winning the division and then if promoted, would probably need to rebuild the squad anyway. Just look at Dundee this season for example.

I'd rather we stay up, get rid of the manager the day after, an almost entire new squad and ideally an entire new board etc.

The consistency and heart that underpinned 13 out of the past 15 years is gone.

Another sad realisation is that guys like Millar, Wright, Muzz all joined the club with no connection at all, but both took the club to heart and played like it. There is none there at the moment who act like they have any feeling for the club whatsoever. Not only have we signed limited footballers, but they are the wrong mentality signings. 

Edited April 28 by Theyellowbox

[RandomGuy.]

Think i agree on the shouts for McCabe, tbh. If we're relegated and probably even if we're not tbh.

We need someone who has an identity of not being a shitehawk who's terrified of attacking, and there's evidence they're able to make to work successfully while building a squad on a budget. There's very few boxes he doesn't tick.

Issue would be the squad will need rebuilt either way and when the club has zero structure to really support that, if we stay up then the manager has to get virtually everything 100% spot on and get it working quickly too. Another poor league cup campaign and you've already got fans after you.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

I always find this viewpoint a mental one. Whether we stay up or go down, this squad gets ripped up and we start again.

If we did go down, we'd be getting in players with the sole intention of winning the division and then if promoted, would probably need to rebuild the squad anyway

We wouldn't need too. We're not a Dundee/United/County who are mired in losses and can't turn a profit outside the top flight. We can afford to try and getnit right and build our way back.

I think if we go down it would take 2 seasons to get us as genuine challengers, but we might be better off by year 3 than staying up and trying to tread water and rebuild at the same time. Championship should give us more breathing room barring a disaster of Falkirk proportions.

[Radford]

For a club like Saints, it's easier to build a squad in the second tier. And if you get players integrated, you can take them with you. We heard in 1990, 1997 and 2009 that various players wouldn't be good enough for the top flight but being part of a stable squad makes a world of difference.

We've seen in the last two summers how much harder it is in the Premiership unless you are only needing two or three signings, which was the key to success for Tommy Wright.

I have no appetite for the inevitable failure of another Premiership rebuild and another season of struggle. None at all.

[tree house tam]

1 hour ago, johnoswald2712 said:

Why aren’t we sacking him? We sacked Callum last season with 6 games left because it was obvious the decision needed to be taken.

 

 

 

My only concern is Stan Harris 

1, we aren't sacking him because he pulls the odd win out the hat, like winning at Easter Rd, Pittodrie etc usually after we have played complete shite like yesterday. Callum had lost it and had doubled down on his system( yes, I know) and was winning f**k all.

2, Stan is a frontman, Geoff hired Levein and even phoned to ask him to come help the club out. It's a stopgap until the sale goes through and the remit is to keep the club up by any means. I know it looks unlikely and it's pure shite to watch but it's only a handful of games and in the grand scheme of things could save the club millions.

 

It's still in Saints' hands.

[PauloPerth]

I’m with Tam on this, there’s no way we’re sacking him. For a start he’s got us to a better position in the league than where we were when he took over.

There’s certainly no love from our support though; I think a big factor in our play off survival 2 years ago was the Saints crowd staying behind the team and backing them to get over the line. It feels nothing like that this time round, everyone’s so fed up with the ineptitude they’re quick to turn on the team and manager. Levein has done nothing to try to build a rapport with the Saints crowd or get them onside.  Having more away games left might be no bad thing.

I hope yesterday was a one off, but it’s a big worry for me now. We’ve been poor for a while, but I can’t remember seeing such a heartless surrender in a non-OF home match.

Still in our hands, but the manager has a huge week ahead to get a positive reaction from the players after that.

[tree house tam]

Yesterday was bad but it was nowhere near as bad as it was in Paisley. We've won games since, just got to try and do it again.

[shibbydoo]

No chance we sack Levein before the end of the season, and neither we should 

One job to do - keep us up.

In 4-6 games time we stay up we re-evaluate for next season.

In 4-6 games time we go down we re-evaluate for next season.

Whatever happens happens, and I personally prefer that to be without Levein (or Kirk) but the time to talk about all of that is in 4-6 games time, not right now, which is a ridiculous thing to consider.

Aye, we are shite, but we were before Levein too, and we are 10th. That keeps us up.

Good chance we'd have been relegated by now if he hadn't come in.

[Widge]

Yeah the only positives are County lost yesterday to the worst team in the league whereas we played arguably the best team in the bottom 6, so we gained and lost nothing. More away games for us is definitely better, as we won’t have a crowd on the back, which let’s face it massively helps players. I still think we finish 11th, but then again there’s a reason County are below us and it’s not by us being any good that’s for sure. 

[The Saintee]

We'd pretty much be safe if this collection of absolute shitebags hadn't dropped so many points from winning positions. 

And there's an obvious weakness with goals from crosses that has never even looked liked being sorted.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

12 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

St Mirren and Dundee fans desperate to add the "St Johnstone got relegated" trophy to their "made the top six" cup already in the bag.

St Mirren might do a open top bus parade, but suspect Dundee will go down the DVD route.

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

There’s certainly no love from our support though; I think a big factor in our play off survival 2 years ago was the Saints crowd staying behind the team and backing them to get over the line. It feels nothing like that this time round, everyone’s so fed up with the ineptitude they’re quick to turn on the team and manager

The manager and a chunk of the squad 2 years ago had a large connection to fans though. You have your Rooney, Craig, Muzz, Wotherspoon, Hendrys in that team alongside Gordon and May. Who's similar now?

Some already wanted Davidson out by then but I think a fair chunk were still thinking he was just unlucky and could turn it around.

I think Levein suffers from what he serves up being so similar to Davidson (back 5, scared football, no tempo, no midfield, recurring defensive issues), and fans are just sick to death of it. He probably shouldn't be judged before he can build his own squad, but why would fans believe it'll change at this stage?

Both the managers and players have to earn it, they don't just get a free pass of blind faith forever simply because they're all we've got.

[PauloPerth]

13 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

The manager and a chunk of the squad 2 years ago had a large connection to fans though. You have your Rooney, Craig, Muzz, Wotherspoon, Hendrys in that team alongside Gordon and May. Who's similar now?

Some already wanted Davidson out by then but I think a fair chunk were still thinking he was just unlucky and could turn it around.

I think Levein suffers from what he serves up being so similar to Davidson (back 5, scared football, no tempo, no midfield, recurring defensive issues), and fans are just sick to death of it. He probably shouldn't be judged before he can build his own squad, but why would fans believe it'll change at this stage?

Both the managers and players have to earn it, they don't just get a free pass of blind faith forever simply because they're all we've got.

I wasn’t saying I don’t understand why, I’m just pointing out it feels like a completely different atmosphere.

A lot of those players you mention and the manager had achieved something incredible 12 months earlier so deserved support when things turned sour. We’re now 3 years on and we’ve got steadily worse, so I think part of the reaction is an accumulation over that period.

Not personally a fan of some of the booing at individual mistakes or negative chanting, not out of a moral thing but simply that I think it makes players perform even worse, but folks’ frustration is understandable.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, PauloPerth said:

I wasn’t saying I don’t understand why, I’m just pointing out it feels like a completely different atmosphere.

A lot of those players you mention and the manager had achieved something incredible 12 months earlier so deserved support when things turned sour. We’re now 3 years on and we’ve got steadily worse, so I think part of the reaction is an accumulation over that period.

Not personally a fan of some of the booing at individual mistakes or negative chanting, not out of a moral thing but simply that I think it makes players perform even worse, but folks’ frustration is understandable.

Aye sorry, whole post wasn't directed at you, I just ended up ranting.

Agreed with the booing to an extent. The booing after a pointless shell up the park to nobody is fair game for me, the booing when a pass goes slightly astray isn't.

We really need to be a good home team next season. Think away days are slowly slipping away from fans so it's important to perform in front of them when you can to build some form of relationship.

I don't think fans/players/managers have had that since TW left. Often wonder if fans had been to games in Davidsons first season how different things might have been being able to celebrate the big moments with them.

[RandomGuy.]

[Kyle]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

And Connor Smith is a downgraded Matt Smith. 
 

How we've ended up with so many nothing footballers is quite an achievement, stemming 3 managers now as well.