AJF Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: You seem to be taking this as you being singled out, it’s not. It’s a generalisation based on your fans general expectations of what they expect Rangers to be able to achieve. I also don’t know why you seem desperate for people to agree with you or why you need your opinion validated by a Celtic fan. I'm not, I don't need you to validate my opinion. I was simply questioning your logic when you implied I was expecting too much and scapegoating Beale after I said I thought he deserved to go. You agree that he deserved to go and have said as much at the time, so I just don't understand your point. You keep avoiding it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Beale was within the boundaries of a reasonable and neutral expectation of where Rangers could expect to be at an early stage of the season: In and around 2nd place and competing at the Europa League/Conference League level - that's where I see Rangers just as a neutral observer. He wasn't exceeding that which was the issue. Rangers supporters demand their manager to outperform their capabilities on a consistent basis to compete with Celtic and so that results in an impossible remit for a manager at Ibrox. When he or GVB inevitably failed to do that they were sacked. Rangers supporters don't know their place in the pecking order which results in the club trying to do things too quickly resulting in poor decision making instead of taking the longer road to build a more sustainable approach to competing. It's a lack of patience driven by fans who don't accept the reality of where Rangers are. That's a straightforward, easily understandable and accurate analysis of the situation at Ibrox. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bennett said: Ah well. The 25 minutes of hope between those tweets was fun while it lasted. Edited October 18, 2023 by AJF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, AJF said: I'm not, I don't need you to validate my opinion. I was simply questioning your logic when you implied I was expecting too much and scapegoating Beale after I said I thought he deserved to go. You agree that he deserved to go and have said as much at the time, so I just don't understand your point. You keep avoiding it. What I said was he wasn’t fully at fault due to the lack of support and poor infrastructure around him and that the expensive dross brought in will inevitably see Rangers punt him and it seems I was spot on because Gerrard aside, it’s the MO. I still think he’s not fully at fault so my opinions haven’t changed. Rangers fans (not singling you out here but I am including you) had high expectations of Beale based on this myth he was the brains behind Gerrard and he was a wizard on the recruitment front. The fans hyped him up when the reality was he was an utter novice and as such the club should have treated him like one, he is going to make mistakes but again everyone should have known that but the expectations were so that Rangers fans expected him to challenge and perform some sort of miracle because the guy in the green corner was seemingly doing just that, that was never really realistic for Beale though again due to the nature of how Rangers are run and I don’t see it being much different for this guy. Edited October 18, 2023 by Jinky67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Jinky67 said: What I said was he wasn’t fully at fault due to the lack of support and poor infrastructure around him and that the expensive dross brought in will inevitably see Rangers punt him and it seems I was spot on because Gerrard aside, it’s the MO. I still think he’s not fully at fault so my opinions haven’t changed. Rangers fans (not singling you out here but I am including you) had high expectations of Beale based on this myth he was the brains behind Gerrard and he was a wizard on the recruitment front. The fans hyped him up when the reality was he was an utter novice and as such the club should have treated him like one, he is going to make mistakes but again everyone should have known that but the expectations were so that Rangers fans expected him to challenge and perform some sort of miracle because the guy in the green corner was seemingly doing just that, that was never really realistic for Beale though again due to the nature of how Rangers are run and I don’t see it being much different for this guy. Rangers need a miracle worker to compete with Celtic presently. The media like to suggest that Celtic and Rangers are on a par because it suits their business, but they aren't. They could be in the future - the potential is there, but not now. I'm a little surprised Clement took the job given he's coming off the back of a mess at Monaco. It's a risky job to take when he will only be seen as a success if they are able to push past a dominant Celtic. Good luck to him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 hours ago, AJF said: Ah well. The 25 minutes of hope between those tweets was fun while it lasted. You’re not possibly suggesting Mr Fabrizio Romano Base Pizza merely regurgitates whatever it is he’s told without questioning it, are you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 22 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: You’re not possibly suggesting Mr Fabrizio Romano Base Pizza merely regurgitates whatever it is he’s told without questioning it, are you? You can do a lot in life I don't react to but questioning Fabrizio is not one. Apologise right now to the man or square go at dawn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 hours ago, bennett said: Some of the "people" can't believe that anyone would turn down the mighty Glasgow Rangers, as was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Are Selltic and Rainjurz fans always arguing!? Come on guys, hold hands and walk towards the light! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, Girth said: Are Selltic and Rainjurz fans always arguing!? Come on guys, hold hands and walk towards the light! Do you mean you haven’t been enjoying ‘Michael Beale was given time and failed’ vs ‘Michael Beale was given time but less time than is suitable for the expectations of a vaguely defined populace but yes he failed’? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 On 18/10/2023 at 17:13, 2426255 said: Rangers need a miracle worker to compete with Celtic presently. The media like to suggest that Celtic and Rangers are on a par because it suits their business, but they aren't. They could be in the future - the potential is there, but not now. I'm a little surprised Clement took the job given he's coming off the back of a mess at Monaco. It's a risky job to take when he will only be seen as a success if they are able to push past a dominant Celtic. Good luck to him. They're not on a par and have not been for some time. Celtic's budget is bigger by some considerable margin and their signings are generally better players that command bigger salaries and their scouting and development of players has been shown to be better. Celtic have been a well run club for over 25 years, the same could never be said for what has been an absolute pantomime at Ibrox.. Celtic also have the ability to go and get someone like Brendan Rogers who would not have come cheap and their revenue streams are strong especially with Champions League group stage football being a regularity now. Rangers meanwhile probably have 5 times the budgets of a Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen. They are absolutely guaranteed to finish second at worst and their best hope of trophies are in the cups. There is no shame in that but this realisation no doubt angers some of the support base. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, AndyM said: They're not on a par and have not been for some time. Celtic's budget is bigger by some considerable margin and their signings are generally better players that command bigger salaries and their scouting and development of players has been shown to be better. Celtic have been a well run club for over 25 years, the same could never be said for what has been an absolute pantomime at Ibrox.. Celtic also have the ability to go and get someone like Brendan Rogers who would not have come cheap and their revenue streams are strong especially with Champions League group stage football being a regularity now. Rangers meanwhile probably have 5 times the budgets of a Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen. They are absolutely guaranteed to finish second at worst and their best hope of trophies are in the cups. There is no shame in that but this realisation no doubt angers some of the support base. The fan base refuse to accept the reality of their situation. If you took the names Celtic & Rangers away then it would be clear. The point I was making is that it pressures their board into making poor decisions which slows them getting to where they want to be and so the fan base is a negative force in that respect. God help Clement if he doesn't win the League cup, a competition where randomness can have a bigger effect. Edited October 20, 2023 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuboMoravcik Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 On 18/10/2023 at 14:59, Jinky67 said: What I said was he wasn’t fully at fault due to the lack of support and poor infrastructure around him and that the expensive dross brought in will inevitably see Rangers punt him and it seems I was spot on because Gerrard aside, it’s the MO. I still think he’s not fully at fault so my opinions haven’t changed. Rangers fans (not singling you out here but I am including you) had high expectations of Beale based on this myth he was the brains behind Gerrard and he was a wizard on the recruitment front. The fans hyped him up when the reality was he was an utter novice and as such the club should have treated him like one, he is going to make mistakes but again everyone should have known that but the expectations were so that Rangers fans expected him to challenge and perform some sort of miracle because the guy in the green corner was seemingly doing just that, that was never really realistic for Beale though again due to the nature of how Rangers are run and I don’t see it being much different for this guy. FWIW, I know a lad who works within the game professionally and he says Beale is actually rated as a coach. Maybe being a manager in his own right was a step too far though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelmen Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 29 minutes ago, AndyM said: especially with Champions League group stage football being a regularity now Amazing to think that it is because of Rangers and all the points they have picked up that are keeping them in the automatic group phase place 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, 2426255 said: The fan base refuse to accept the reality of their situation. If you took the names Celtic & Rangers away then it would be clear. The point I was making is that it pressures their board into making poor decisions which slows them getting to where they want to be and so the fan base is a negative force in that respect. God help Clement if he doesn't win the League cup, a competition where randomness can have a bigger effect. The League Cup is absolutely massive for them which almost sounds a ridiculous thing to say as it was Rangers fans who used to say to me that the League Cup only mattered when "it wis part o the treble". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, LuboMoravcik said: FWIW, I know a lad who works within the game professionally and he says Beale is actually rated as a coach. Maybe being a manager in his own right was a step too far though. I think that seems to be the case. Most Rangers fans expressed concerns about his lack of managerial experience at the time of his appointment, despite what others would have you believe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuboMoravcik Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 minute ago, AJF said: I think that seems to be the case. Most Rangers fans expressed concerns about his lack of managerial experience at the time of his appointment, despite what others would have you believe. Did you feel that getting rid of GBV was the correct thing to do at the time? If so, do you still think that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, LuboMoravcik said: Did you feel that getting rid of GBV was the correct thing to do at the time? If so, do you still think that? Yes and yes. I was sympathetic to him as he was hung out to dry after he got us into the CL and not a penny of it was spent on the squad. But I think he had run his course and we were looking pretty aimless in the league and going backwards. His hidings at Celtic park also went against him. Hindsight tells us Beale wasn’t the right man to replace him, but I don’t think we were wrong to get rid of Gio despite that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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