Gordon Strachan

[Monkey Tennis]

On 05/02/2017 at 10:04, pandarilla said:

 

What did he say in that interview that was disgraceful and deluded?

I think you're falling into the dark chasm of hyperbole.

 

Good Lord!  Can you not read - I thought you were a teacher?

It's disgraceful to suggest that we need to find ways of ensuring teams relegated on merit, are somehow in the top tier anyway.

It's deluded to suggest this would have any kind of marked, positive effect on how the national team performs.

Using both words was entirely appropriate and in no way hyperbolic.

[pandarilla]

Good Lord!  Can you not read - I thought you were a teacher?
It's disgraceful to suggest that we need to find ways of ensuring teams relegated on merit, are somehow in the top tier anyway.
It's deluded to suggest this would have any kind of marked, positive effect on how the national team performs.
Using both words was entirely appropriate and in no way hyperbolic.

Wait, what?

Are you quoting me from a month ago?

I think you've misconstrued his words. I think he wants a situation where our biggest clubs are strong enough year in and year out where they're never really in danger of relegation.

Where it happening would only be an extremely rare example (like Leeds maybe in the early to mid 00s). He wants our top league to have the biggest teams and playing a high standard of football.

In the last 20 or so years it's almost an even playing field outwith Celtic and (kind of rangers...special case).

Don't get me wrong, even playing fields can be beneficial in this respect, and the highland clubs and St Johnstone at certainly enjoying it - and so they should.

But this pretty piss poor standard even playing field hasn't brought us any further forward with players for Scotland. We need the balance right between well funded and financed clubs bringing in better players but not completely at the expense of home grown talent.

We need our bigger teams (not just old firm) to be strong in Europe.

[ICTChris]

Utterly depressing when this thread gets bumped and he hasn't been sacked.

His assistant just got shelled out by Motherwell for losing about twenty goals in four games as well.  These are the people in charge of Scottish football - idiotic failures.  

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

Wait, what?

Are you quoting me from a month ago?

I think you've misconstrued his words. I think he wants a situation where our biggest clubs are strong enough year in and year out where they're never really in danger of relegation.

Where it happening would only be an extremely rare example (like Leeds maybe in the early to mid 00s). He wants our top league to have the biggest teams and playing a high standard of football.

In the last 20 or so years it's almost an even playing field outwith Celtic and (kind of rangers...special case).

Don't get me wrong, even playing fields can be beneficial in this respect, and the highland clubs and St Johnstone at certainly enjoying it - and so they should.

But this pretty piss poor standard even playing field hasn't brought us any further forward with players for Scotland. We need the balance right between well funded and financed clubs bringing in better players but not completely at the expense of home grown talent.

We need our bigger teams (not just old firm) to be strong in Europe.

 

Our 'bigger teams' are the ones who are best on merit, not ones who who higher crowds than others and once did something in Europe decades ago.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

Wait, what?

Are you quoting me from a month ago?

I think you've misconstrued his words. I think he wants a situation where our biggest clubs are strong enough year in and year out where they're never really in danger of relegation.

Where it happening would only be an extremely rare example (like Leeds maybe in the early to mid 00s). He wants our top league to have the biggest teams and playing a high standard of football.

In the last 20 or so years it's almost an even playing field outwith Celtic and (kind of rangers...special case).

Don't get me wrong, even playing fields can be beneficial in this respect, and the highland clubs and St Johnstone at certainly enjoying it - and so they should.

But this pretty piss poor standard even playing field hasn't brought us any further forward with players for Scotland. We need the balance right between well funded and financed clubs bringing in better players but not completely at the expense of home grown talent.

We need our bigger teams (not just old firm) to be strong in Europe.

 

Yes, I am quoting you from a month ago because I've only just read your post and time has made it no less ludicrous.

I honestly think you're giving Strachan too much credit.  I don't think he's merely saying it's regrettable that some big clubs are outside the top division; I think he's saying it's wrong.

He talks of "finding ways" to avoid such a situation.  He's even used the term "engineering" in connection with this before.  It's despicable.

 

[pandarilla]

Our 'bigger teams' are the ones who are best on merit, not ones who who higher crowds than others and once did something in Europe decades ago.

Don't be stupid. Honestly think about what you're saying here.

Club size is nothing? It's all about where you finish in the league?

Some clubs are bigger than others. This allows them to have more potential. Only utter morons deny this.

Clubs can grow and shrink but to disregard club size entirely - to deny it exists is stupid.

[pandarilla]

Yes, I am quoting you from a month ago because I've only just read your post and time has made it no less ludicrous.
I honestly think you're giving Strachan too much credit.  I don't think he's merely saying it's regrettable that some big clubs are outside the top division; I think he's saying it's wrong.
He talks of "finding ways" to avoid such a situation.  He's even used the term "engineering" in connection with this before.  It's despicable.
 

I think he's saying it's regrettable and unhealthy for the standard of our game. If we're going to improve the standard we need the bigger clubs doing much better.

If he genuinely wants to create some sort of crazy league rule (as you seem to suggest) then he's wrong. Sporting integrity is ultimate.

But if we want Scottish football to progress and compete better we need our bigger clubs to be doing much better. Aberdeen have made progress in recent years but limited progress.

The league is obviously skewed to f**k with Celtic and who only knows how we solve that problem. It doesn't help Celtic and it doesn't help Scottish football.

[Monkey Tennis]

17 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

I think he's saying it's regrettable and unhealthy for the standard of our game. If we're going to improve the standard we need the bigger clubs doing much better.

If he genuinely wants to create some sort of crazy league rule (as you seem to suggest) then he's wrong. Sporting integrity is ultimate.

But if we want Scottish football to progress and compete better we need our bigger clubs to be doing much better. Aberdeen have made progress in recent years but limited progress.

The league is obviously skewed to f**k with Celtic and who only knows how we solve that problem. It doesn't help Celtic and it doesn't help Scottish football.

 

I think that overriding notions of sporting integrity is precisely what Strachan advocates.

I also think there's little to suggest that periods when the city sides are in the top flight, coincide with periods when the national team does well, as HJ has unequivocally established.

[pandarilla]

I think that overriding notions of sporting integrity is precisely what Strachan advocates.
I also think there's little to suggest that periods when the city sides are in the top flight, coincide with periods when the national team does well, as HJ has unequivocally established.

Unequivocally established?

So he researched and won an argument on the internet so let's ignore everything else?

Do you accept that the standard of our top league needs to improve if we are to improve our national team?

Or is the other option a kind of Irish/Icelandic approach? And are we therefore OK with our top league as it is?

[Monkey Tennis]

45 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

Unequivocally established?

So he researched and won an argument on the internet so let's ignore everything else?

Do you accept that the standard of our top league needs to improve if we are to improve our national team?

Or is the other option a kind of Irish/Icelandic approach? And are we therefore OK with our top league as it is?
 

 

Yes.

Yes, because he completely and unequivocally dismantled the link Strachan was attempting to make.

No.

Yes.  I'd like a more egalitarian picture at the very top of it, but I'm otherwise perfectly untroubled.

[pandarilla]

Yes.
Yes, because he completely and unequivocally dismantled the link Strachan was attempting to make.
No.
Yes.  I'd like a more egalitarian picture at the very top of it, but I'm otherwise perfectly untroubled.

OK.

So we can improve our game quite a lot without any great increase in revenue? Do our clubs just have to just do better with the resources we have?

Our clubs in Europe have not made any strides really. We are still regarded as absolute minnows in both competitions. There's clearly benefits in terms of having genuinely open competition for cups and for the top six but can this lead to a general increase in standard?

[AMMjag]

We need our bigger teams (not just old firm) to be strong in Europe.

Welsh, Norn Irish and Icelandic clubs all doing superbly in Europe of course.

[Monkey Tennis]

59 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

OK.

So we can improve our game quite a lot without any great increase in revenue? Do our clubs just have to just do better with the resources we have?

Our clubs in Europe have not made any strides really. We are still regarded as absolute minnows in both competitions. There's clearly benefits in terms of having genuinely open competition for cups and for the top six but can this lead to a general increase in standard?

 

You threw in the examples of Eire and Iceland. 

Why are you now desperate to make explicit this link between domestic game and national team?

It's pretty tenuous these days, especially for small countries.

 

Come on man - analytical skills.

 

[pandarilla]

Welsh, Norn Irish and Icelandic clubs all doing superbly in Europe of course.

Superbly?

[pandarilla]

You threw in the examples of Eire and Iceland. 
Why are you now desperate to make explicit this link between domestic game and national team?
It's pretty tenuous these days, especially for small countries.
 
Come on man - analytical skills.
 

I don't think the link is that tenuous.

I don't think our clubs are producing enough very good players. And I think the standard of our teams is consequently pretty poor. Competitive, at times riveting, but poor.

There's a hip and trendy element that argues against whatever the traditional, established media line is. But that doesn't make it right.

[Lex]

Am I reading an argument where one side is suggesting Scotland would be a better side if only Hibs and Dundee United were in the top flight?

 

f**k sake.

[pandarilla]

Am I reading an argument where one side is suggesting Scotland would be a better side if only Hibs and Dundee United were in the top flight?
 
f**k sake.

No. I'd practice reading if I were you.

[Gordopolis]

Am I reading an argument where one side is suggesting Scotland would be a better side if only Hibs and Dundee United were in the top flight?
 
f**k sake.

There is a case for Hibs who, by retaining McGinn and Cummings in the second tier, are stiflng their potential progression with the national team.
Hibs are a bit of a special case tho and I don't think we can generalise based on them. Dundee Utd, for example, aren't missed apart from the Derby fixtures.

[Monkey Tennis]

50 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

No. I'd practice reading if I were you.

 

I'd practise spelling if I were you.

[Lex]

 There is a case for Hibs who, by retaining McGinn and Cummings in the second tier, are stiflng their potential progression with the national team.

Hibs are a bit of a special case tho and I don't think we can generalise based on them. Dundee Utd, for example, aren't missed apart from the Derby fixtures.

 

  

Not having that at all. Firstly, I don't think Cummings or McGinn are anywhere near international standard. If they were, they wouldn't be playing in the Scottish Championship.

 

Secondly, what does the standard of our national leagues have to do with our national team?

 

Countries with far worse domestic leagues (Ireland n.ireland and Wales) to name but 3 have enjoyed far more international success than us recently.

 

Last week I watched my team (who sit bottom of the Scottish Championship) rinse the Welsh champions 4-1. Do you think Wales national team fans were stressing about that result? Me neither. They've still not came down from the high of reaching the semi finals of the Euros last summer.

 

More and more of Scotland's players have never and will never kick a ball in domestic Scottish football, and this is a good thing. The less exposure our international players have to the Scottish leagues the better for Scotland.