Juncker

[madwullie]

That is not the reality of the process. The UK can invoke the article 50 process at any time of its choosing. There is no process for withdrawal that can be started by the EU. If the UK decides to wait 2 weeks or 2 years to start the process, there is nothing the EU can do about it.

This is true, but the reality is that those who voted leave will not be happy sitting about waiting while Boris and Gove Hollywood.

Plus we really can't afford to piss the EU off more than is necessary. We need to get as good a deal as possible. They have most of the leverage here.

[CowdenConvert]

Fact, the political landscape and being independent or in the EU or not has no effect on the price of oil and therefore whether the industry is viable. It is controlled by a cartel dominated by Saudi Arabia who are quite happy to keep the price low as they can extract their reserves at that price.

Opinion. All the people who have lost their jobs in the oil and gas sector think that the sector is fucked.

Fact. Oil was a key part of the SNP's economic 'plan' and has transpired to be pie in the sky, despite warnings to the contrary

[git-intae-thum]

Fact, the political landscape and being independent or in the EU or not has no effect on the price of oil and therefore whether the industry is viable. It is controlled by a cartel dominated by Saudi Arabia who are quite happy to keep the price low as they can extract their reserves at that price.

Opinion. All the people who have lost their jobs in the oil and gas sector think that the sector is fucked.

Fact. Oil was a key part of the SNP's economic 'plan' and has transpired to be pie in the sky, despite warnings to the contrary

1) Your first point is pretty factual, but take out the saudi part, it could describe much of the worlds trade mechanisms.

Price volatilty applies to all commodities. It does not mean it is worse for a country to possess a large natural resource of the said commodity just because price is low at a particular point in time.

2) Oil was a big part of the 2014 white paper, but the Scottish economy is more diverse than UK nationalists like to admit. Have a look at spirits revenue for one. Ask yourself where the excise and corporation taxes currently paid by all business from supermarkets to large hauliers currently go.

With the right fiscal framework, set solely for the benefit of Scottish people and industry I do not see how we can have done any worse than the current UK clusterfuck.

[Antlion]

So the overnight opponents of "taking back control" only have "Scotland is too poor for that luxury because oil" left? Pleasing. Says a lot about their beloved state.

[McSpreader]

I have one overriding priority. An Independent Scotland that was deprivedof Indpendence last time around in large part by all the lies told by the establishment figures.

"If you leave the oil industry will be fucked". Guess what, we stayed and its fucked.

"If you leave you will be out of Europe". Guess what, we stayed and we're out of Europe.

Yes but we still have England and Wales. Thank f*ck!

 

 Maybe we need to  be a bit more pragmatic and start appreciating our Southern neighbours. Rather them then those French c*nts.

[carpetmonster]

Yes but we still have England and Wales. Thank f*ck!

Maybe we need to be a bit more pragmatic and start appreciating our Southern neighbours. Rather them then those French c*nts.

Once they've got rid of them fuzzy wuzzies and the brown ones and the ones that they get to do their plumbing because they do a better job than the shiftless useless English plumbers they'll turn their eyes to the sweaties next.

[Granny Danger]

That is not the reality of the process.  The UK can invoke the article 50 process at any time of its choosing.  There is no process for withdrawal that can be started by the EU.  If the UK decides to wait 2 weeks or 2 years to start the process, there is nothing the EU can do about it.

From what I've read elsewhere that is technically correct.

But I bet the EU could make the UK's continued involvement uncomfortable and difficult if they so desired.

For a start I cannot see anything that UK representatives have to say on any matter at any level being given the slightest attention.

[NotThePars]

So the overnight opponents of "taking back control" only have "Scotland is too poor for that luxury because oil" left? Pleasing. Says a lot about their beloved state.

Loads of the arguments, or at least he prominent figures pushing, have melted away. Davidson was such a strong advocate of the EU remain vote that it'll be funny to see how she opposes. Labour are already coming round by the looks of it. The only argument I've seen is Hothersall demanding solidarity with down south.

[LongTimeLurker]

That is not the reality of the process.  The UK can invoke the article 50 process at any time of its choosing.  There is no process for withdrawal that can be started by the EU.  If the UK decides to wait 2 weeks or 2 years to start the process, there is nothing the EU can do about it.

 

That might be the mechanics of the process, but the EU is by no means powerless, because they know that it is politically impossible for the Conservative party not to invoke article 50 and can let it be known both behind the scenes and publicly that any undue delay would result in a significantly more hardline negotiation posture. They are already in good cop bad cop mode today in trying to kickstart things after BoJo and Cemeron tried to stall the process.

[Bishop Briggs]

That might be the mechanics of the process, but the EU is by no means powerless, because they know that it is politically impossible for the Conservative party not to invoke article 50 and can let it be known both behind the scenes and publicly that any undue delay would result in a significantly more hardline negotiation posture. They are already in good cop bad cop mode today in trying to kickstart things after BoJo and Cemeron tried to stall the process.

 

We are only a month away from the summer Westminster recess. Brussels also shuts down in late July and resumes business in September. The EU can easily wait until September when the Conservative members will elect their new Leader and PM. 

[mjw]

We are only a month away from the summer Westminster recess. Brussels also shuts down in late July and resumes business in September. The EU can easily wait until September when the Conservative members will elect their new Leader and PM.

Will we still be sending them £350 million a week during that period?

[Mark Connolly]

Will we still be sending them £350 million a week during that period?

 

Plus holiday pay.

[CowdenConvert]

Will we still be sending them £350 million a week during that period?

Of course we'll be sending them money. We're still members. Won't be £350m a week mind

[mjw]

The broken NHS might not be able to wait on that money. Hopefully something can be sorted in the meantime.

[doulikefish]

Are all the leavers having a "who pulls the short straw" type of competition to see who negotiates??

The eu wants it done so get on with it and stop making up pish excuses "its summer recess naebodys in the day" isnt really a good excuse when they have created this clusterfuck

Who is on the the "we are talking to the commenwealth " side of things??

[tamthebam]

The broken NHS might not be able to wait on that money. Hopefully something can be sorted in the meantime.

 

if you really thought that money was going to the NHS rather than renewing Trident and tax cuts for the rich then I've got some magic beans for sale... 

[CowdenConvert]

if you really thought that money was going to the NHS rather than renewing Trident and tax cuts for the rich then I've got some magic beans for sale...

If you really thought that money existed you've already bought them.

[mjw]

if you really thought that money was going to the NHS rather than renewing Trident and tax cuts for the rich then I've got some magic beans for sale...

I really didn't,some people might have when they seen the bus though.

[mjw]

If you really thought that money existed you've already bought them.

It exists according to IDS on The Marr show.

In one sentence he halved it though.

[Bishop Briggs]

It exists according to IDS on The Marr show.

In one sentence he halved it though.

 

 

Yes but there is the foreign aid budget of over £12 billion annually - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11513825/Aid-budget-to-increase-by-1-billion.html

 

"The overseas aid budget will increase by an extra £1 billion over the next two years under new European Union rules, it has emerged.

 

The Department for International Development (Dfid) is preparing to change accounting methods in order to bring Britain in line with other EU countries, making it harder to meet the controversial aid target in the next parliament, according to The Times.

 

The UK already spends more than any other country on international agencies and is the second largest aid donor in the world.

 

 

Government figures released on Thursday reportedly show that Britain met last year's aid spending target of 0.7 per cent of GDP, totalling £11.7 billion."

 

A lot of that money goes on consultants and funding bureaucrats in foreign governments. It could be spent on the NHS or improving public services instead.