Arthur Orton Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Elephant Polo Team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Just now, Tynieness said: Elephant Polo Team. Ya bass! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) Will be interested to read why it's all 'our'fault that the UK can't get good trade deals post Brexit. Telegraph tomorrow. Edited February 24, 2018 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 10 hours ago, Suspect Device said: Will be interested to read why it's all 'our'fault that the UK can't get good trade deals post Brexit. Telegraph tomorrow. First time ever that Marr hasnt discussed the torygraph front page on his sunday show lol Its either us of the oirish that will be the ruin of the english glorious brexit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Labour effectively saying they’ll back customs union amendment. Time to see if the Tory rebels are the allies everyone keeps suggesting they are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Labour effectively saying they’ll back customs union amendment. Time to see if the Tory rebels are the allies everyone keeps suggesting they are. They're saying they'll leave the customs union then negotiate a treaty that will be similar but allow them to make external trade deals. Basically May's cherry picking have your cake and eat it fantasy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, welshbairn said: They're saying they'll leave the customs union then negotiate a treaty that will be similar but allow them to make external trade deals. Basically May's cherry picking have your cake and eat it fantasy. Corbyn is a c**t. Momentum are supposed to be a progressive force in politics but are enabling him. I understand the left of centre EU position, I probably agree with it in principle, but there are larger and more immediate and more real issues in play here. It’s a chance to get rid of the worst Tory government since Thatcher. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Corbyn is a c**t. Momentum are supposed to be a progressive force in politics but are enabling him. I understand the left of centre EU position, I probably agree with it in principle, but there are larger and more immediate and more real issues in play here. It’s a chance to get rid of the worst Tory government since Thatcher. What are the larger, more immediate and more issues at play here? Unless I'm mistaken this amendment represents a real defeat for the government, doesn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, welshbairn said: They're saying they'll leave the customs union then negotiate a treaty that will be similar but allow them to make external trade deals. Basically May's cherry picking have your cake and eat it fantasy. The extent to which a customs union will allow the UK to agree external trade deals will be a sticking point with many as this could create the EU some headaches depending on future UK trade deals. A UK/China deal, for example, could lead to China dumping cheap shite into the UK and then simply moving it to the EU free of customs controls. As such, there will be restrictions and so I don't think this is cherry picking. It should however mitigate the Irish border problem about as far as Brexit can mitigate it. It would be much better to just stay in the single market and follow the Norway model. This won't happen because the Tories want free movement ended and the Labour leadership keep muttering some pish about State aid rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, NotThePars said: What are the larger, more immediate and more issues at play here? Unless I'm mistaken this amendment represents a real defeat for the government, doesn't it? Defeating the government will depend upon a credible alternative. My reading is that he’s not saying that we will stay in the existing customs union rather he will negotiate a new one. Welshbairn is correct, the terms of that are as likely to be accepted by the EU as May’s one is; in other words no chance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Michael W said: The extent to which a customs union will allow the UK to agree external trade deals will be a sticking point with many as this could create the EU some headaches depending on future UK trade deals. A UK/China deal, for example, could lead to China dumping cheap shite into the UK and then simply moving it to the EU free of customs controls. As such, there will be restrictions and so I don't think this is cherry picking. It should however mitigate the Irish border problem about as far as Brexit can mitigate it. It would be much better to just stay in the single market and follow the Norway model. This won't happen because the Tories want free movement ended and the Labour leadership keep muttering some pish about State aid rules. I don't see what Labour are proposing as differing an iota from the Government's position. Quote In a position paper published in August, the UK set out two potential options for future long-term customs operations. A "partnership" arrangement would see the UK "align precisely" with the EU in terms of imports and exports, removing the need for any customs checks between the two. The UK would continue to operate its own checks on goods coming from outside the EU - and safeguards would be needed to prevent goods entering the EU that had not complied with its rules. An alternative scenario would involve the UK extending customs checks to EU arrivals but under a "highly streamlined arrangement" to minimise disruption at ports and airports. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43186005 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 A "jobs first Brexit". Where all the jobs currently being done by Johnny Foreigner in the UK get exported to China, the USA, and various former colonies of the Empire to be done by different Johnny Foreigners. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Defeating the government will depend upon a credible alternative. My reading is that he’s not saying that we will stay in the existing customs union rather he will negotiate a new one. Welshbairn is correct, the terms of that are as likely to be accepted by the EU as May’s one is; in other words no chance. You seem to be disagreeing with welshbairn on how much it differentiates between May's position. Sunday Politics seem to think this vote can potentially bring down the government and this amendment is being drafted by the people that the SNP were shilling for a few months back. Basing this partially on who it's pissing off its apparent that it has the potential to be a good thing but then again in the endless pantomime that is British politics I'll admit that doesn't mean much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: A "jobs first Brexit". Where all the jobs currently being done by Johnny Foreigner in the UK get exported to China, the USA, and various former colonies of the Empire to be done by different Johnny Foreigners. They'll just stick all terrain wheels on the disabled folks wheelchairs and get em out picking the fruit and veg before it ferments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I don't see what Labour are proposing as differing an iota from the Government's position. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43186005 Labour is proposing a customs union, not a free trade agreement (FTA). Under Labour's proposal, goods could move freely between the UK and EU without customs duty payments. Under the FTA, there are strict rules of origin on goods that must be adhered to for the goods to qualify. Therefore, goods cannot move as freely as they could under a customs union. Both are of course subject to negotiation to establish the terms, but the customs union is more "frictionless" to use the government's favoured terminology. 18 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Defeating the government will depend upon a credible alternative. My reading is that he’s not saying that we will stay in the existing customs union rather he will negotiate a new one. Welshbairn is correct, the terms of that are as likely to be accepted by the EU as May’s one is; in other words no chance. Why wouldn't the EU accept a customs union with the UK? It has clear advantages for EU industry over an FTA, prevents problems in an EU Member State (Ireland) and will also curtail the UK's ability to freely strike FTAs with the rest of the world. The terms of the customs union are to be negotiated, although in principle I see nothing objectional about it. It's already been done with Turkey, for example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, NotThePars said: You seem to be disagreeing with welshbairn on how much it differentiates between May's position. Sunday Politics seem to think this vote can potentially bring down the government and this amendment is being drafted by the people that the SNP were shilling for a few months back. Basing this partially on who it's pissing off its apparent that it has the potential to be a good thing but then again in the endless pantomime that is British politics I'll admit that doesn't mean much. It's just a fight over semantics. Corbyn and May both want to leave THE Customs Union, and replace it with something else. Under pressure from his back benchers Corbyn wants to call this something else A Customs Union, whereas May just wants to call it a trade treaty. Otherwise their positions are identical, no freedom of movement etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I like the idea of following Turkey’s example. Custom unions agreement, dictatorial rule, imprisoning journalists and our own version of the Young Turks or the Grey Wolves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Michael W said: Labour is proposing a customs union, not a free trade agreement (FTA). Under Labour's proposal, goods could move freely between the UK and EU without customs duty payments. Under the FTA, there are strict rules of origin on goods that must be adhered to for the goods to qualify. Therefore, goods cannot move as freely as they could under a customs union. Both are of course subject to negotiation to establish the terms, but the customs union is more "frictionless" to use the government's favoured terminology. Why wouldn't the EU accept a customs union with the UK? It has clear advantages for EU industry over an FTA, prevents problems in an EU Member State (Ireland) and will also curtail the UK's ability to freely strike FTAs with the rest of the world. The terms of the customs union are to be negotiated, although in principle I see nothing objectional about it. It's already been done with Turkey, for example. We have no idea what deal would be negotiated, so we can't tell whether it would be closer to the current Customs Union or a FTA, whatever we choose to call it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Orton Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, NotThePars said: I like the idea of following Turkey’s example. Custom unions agreement, dictatorial rule, imprisoning journalists and our own version of the Young Turks or the Grey Wolves. Good water parks mind you, every cloud and all that. We will need that if we follow the Boris path as only about 2% of the country will be able to afford a foreign trip. Brexit c***s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: We have no idea what deal would be negotiated, so we can't tell whether it would be closer to the current Customs Union or a FTA, whatever we choose to call it. It's either one or the other, because those are not the same thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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