Detournement Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said: The deal will get through heavy flak in cabinet, I think, with two engines on fire and a dead tail gunner. It will then crash speactacularly in parliament, hopefully with the government falling not long after. I'm not so sure. If the DUP aren't onside we are heading for an election and a new PM, I doubt many cabinet ministers will be keen to go down in a blaze of glory with Theresa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 43 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Given that the keep voting for Sinn Fein and the DUP one might wonder whether civilisation in Northern Ireland has reached the point where it’s people are really ready for voting That's down to the structure of Stormont. The power sharing arrangement has meant voters don't have much choice but to vote along unionist/nationalist lines ignoring other policies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: Has the draft text been published yet for we proles to scrutinise it and make wild speculations and extrapolations? Or has it only been made available to (certain) politicos who are busy making wild speculations and extrapolations? I have a copy but I’m not sharing it with you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said: JRM is a backbencher. He's not a 'diddy' backbencher, though. He is (unjustifiably IMO) given a large platform to air his views. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Theresa May will survive this - she'll probably offer the DUP more cash and promise her cabinet the moon and stars in order to support the deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Anyway, anyone reckon this has even a snowball in hell's chance of getting passed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, Detournement said: That's down to the structure of Stormont. The power sharing arrangement has meant voters don't have much choice but to vote along unionist/nationalist lines ignoring other policies. Also those who drafted the Belfast agreement didn't envisage Sinn Fein and the DUP becoming the two biggest parties, thinking that the population would be so grateful that peace had been delivered that we would continue to vote for the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists forever. Mind you, if the Ulster Unionists had been anyway halfway reasonable from 1921 - 1971 there wouldn't have been a need for a built in sectarian power sharing Executive. They forgot/ignored/disregarded that a large % of unionist voters were highly suspicious of/downright opposed to the Belfast Agreement and all its ramifications, and at the subsequent elections for the Assembly voted in a large number of DUP MLAs "to keep an eye on" the Ulster Unionists. I think Sinn Fein were also opposed to the Belfast Agreement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I have a copy but I’m not sharing it with you. I wouldn't take a copy off you anyway... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said: I wouldn't take a copy off you anyway... This is simply a cut and paste from SKY who have taken in from a leaked copy that the Times/FT have obtained. Apparently from some EU official. All quite relevant, but the second paragraph is the key one. Any backstop will last as long as the EU says it will. That’s the deal breaker. The Times says the PM has agreed to "level playing field" measures tying the UK to EU rules in areas such as state aid and environmental and workers' rights protections under the backstop The Financial Times says the UK will not be able to leave a UK-EU customs union under the backstop arrangement without the EU being satisfied other arrangements are in place to avoid a hard Irish border The same newspaper reports a clause in the draft agreement allows the UK to potentially extend the Brexit transition period beyond December 2020, while a declaration on the future EU-UK relationship remains incomplete A leaked diplomatic note seen by The Times reveals how the EU intends to use a UK-EU customs union and "level playing field" commitment under the backstop as the basis for the UK's future relationship with the bloc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, zidane's child said: Theresa May will survive this - she'll probably offer the DUP more cash and promise her cabinet the moon and stars in order to support the deal. DUP are Unionist fanatics, money won't sway them on this.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Gaz said: He's not a 'diddy' backbencher, though. He is (unjustifiably IMO) given a large platform to air his views. He is one of the few MPs who shares the views of a significant part of the country who want a Hard Brexit. The BBC have to represent the plurality of views on this issue. There is the government view, the opposition view, the pro remain view represented by Grieve, Chukka, Khan, Soubry and the fourth perspective is pro leave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 When is the vote on the actual proposal? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamski Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Gaz said: Anyway, anyone reckon this has even a snowball in hell's chance of getting passed? I do. When it comes to capitulation the pro-EU wing of the Tory party have history. Edit - and Labour have history of abstention. Edited November 14, 2018 by Adamski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG_03 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 If NI get a special deal even if it is against the DUP'S wishes then an indyref2 is a stick on. The same deal could be done for Scotland except we have no one representing our interests whereas Ireland has the full might of the EU. If scotland does gain independence it'll be down to the arrogance and incompetence of the UK government and their hatred of the SNP. Looks like it's game on... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Wilkos Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, gannonball said: When is the vote on the actual proposal? December 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneal Down Caster Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 December 2030 [emoji12] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefan27 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 DUP confirming they'll vote against it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 The only way this will pass is if the Tories bribe (or blackmail) their own MPs and enough Labour brexiters vote for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 51 minutes ago, Detournement said: He is one of the few MPs who shares the views of a significant part of the country who want a Hard Brexit. The BBC have to represent the plurality of views on this issue. There is the government view, the opposition view, the pro remain view represented by Grieve, Chukka, Khan, Soubry and the fourth perspective is pro leave. How significant is this part, in your opinion? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gaz said: How significant is this part, in your opinion? https://www.channel4.com/news/major-new-brexit-poll-shows-voters-swinging-towards-remain A Channel 4 News report from last week. Quote Some 35 per cent of people said Britain should stay in the EU in a “no-deal” scenario, and almost exactly the same proportion – 36 per cent – said the UK should leave without a deal. Only 19 per cent thought Brexit should be delayed to allow more time to negotiate. 36% is very significant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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