Antlion Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Woopsie! Shoeleather campaigning is shite, but it works. Genuinely curious about this - as someone who finds doorsteppers more an irritant than anything else; do people genuinely care about what doorsteppers have to say, or is it a polite “thank you, I’ll look at this” before the leaflets get binned? I always feel a bit sorry for the chappers, as I know they’re the footsoldiers, but I can’t say they’ve ever done much more than hand me stuff and ask if X, Y, or Z could count on my vote. (Disclosure: I only ever get Labour and SNP on the doorstep; the Tories and that other one just seem to get stuff through the letterbox like ninjas.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Agree with the above. Studies show that if you actually knock on your supporters doors, they are >20% more likely to turn up & vote than if you just leaflet them. The problem is that many volunteers are only willing to leaflet... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Antlion said: Genuinely curious about this - as someone who finds doorsteppers more an irritant than anything else; do people genuinely care about what doorsteppers have to say, or is it a polite “thank you, I’ll look at this” before the leaflets get binned? I always feel a bit sorry for the chappers, as I know they’re the footsoldiers, but I can’t say they’ve ever done much more than hand me stuff and ask if X, Y, or Z could count on my vote. (Disclosure: I only ever get Labour and SNP on the doorstep; the Tories and that other one just seem to get stuff through the letterbox like ninjas.) Actually that is not the role of a doorstopper. Their role is "I am here to represent Party X. We are serious about this election and would like you to vote for us." Nothing more. Believe it or not - some people will choose not to vote for Party X because "they knew they weren't going to win - they didn't even bother to canvass the area." I will leave you to guess who Party X might be - but actually it is all of them. BTW: I never vote for Y or Z. Total idiots! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Antlion said: The UK government is the English government. It sat in the English parliament before May 1st 1707 and sat as the English parliament, unchanged in its customs and traditions, but increased in its territorial power, on May 2nd 1707. The union stated that the Scotland would be represented in the imperial parliament in London by sixteen peers and forty commons. As historians Mitchison and Barrow put it: “In reality, of course, the English Parliament continued to exist, its traditions, powers and procedures unchanged except that a few new members representing Scotland were added to it.” The Commission on the Constitution similarly states: ”Since 1707 Parliament in traditions , procedure and attitudes has acted as a continuation of the English Parliament.” If they’re wrong, of course, perhaps you can explain how the “UK parliament” can use powers established as the powers of the English parliament several hundred years before there was a UK. From what I’ve seen, most English folk don’t seem to think they lost a Parliament in 1707, either at the time or now. Probably that’s because they didn’t; their parliament simply expanded its power over the north part of Britain and carried on as it always had. There is more to government than parliament. in 1707 the monarchy was more important. there was also the kirk and courts as well as multiple local idiosyncrasies. The scottish monarchy, as i'm sure you know, became the british monarchy. So the UK government is by your logic an extension of the Scottish goverment. Often, things change over time. The catholic church has a pretty direct lineage back to the roman empire and is in many ways a continuation. It is not the Roman empire. 1707 was a long time ago and times have changed. I don't care what most english folk think. They think tories and brexit are good ideas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 56 minutes ago, Fullerene said: BTW: I never vote for Y or Z. Total idiots! Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Fullerene said: Actually that is not the role of a doorstopper. Their role is "I am here to represent Party X. We are serious about this election and would like you to vote for us." Nothing more. Believe it or not - some people will choose not to vote for Party X because "they knew they weren't going to win - they didn't even bother to canvass the area." I will leave you to guess who Party X might be - but actually it is all of them. BTW: I never vote for Y or Z. Total idiots! I resent not being doorstepped or being data mined for appropriate bribes. Had a candidate for Councillor round and said I'd vote for him if he stopped Inverness City getting kicked off Bught Park. Useless c**t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, coprolite said: There is more to government than parliament. in 1707 the monarchy was more important. there was also the kirk and courts as well as multiple local idiosyncrasies. The scottish monarchy, as i'm sure you know, became the british monarchy. So the UK government is by your logic an extension of the Scottish goverment. Often, things change over time. The catholic church has a pretty direct lineage back to the roman empire and is in many ways a continuation. It is not the Roman empire. 1707 was a long time ago and times have changed. I don't care what most english folk think. They think tories and brexit are good ideas. Interesting position; when, then, are you claiming that the English government ceased to be? (Not caring what English folk think because they chose the Tories and Brexit is a bit problematic when those decisions directly dictate what happens to you and, I suppose, your nation.) Edited November 12, 2018 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-eu-tory-vote-remain-leave-poll-final-say-a8630626.html There has been a huge move towards support for a second vote. I can see it becoming a default position adopted by MPs in the face of an unacceptable proposal put forward by May. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-eu-tory-vote-remain-leave-poll-final-say-a8630626.html There has been a huge move towards support for a second vote. I can see it becoming a default position adopted by MPs in the face of an unacceptable proposal put forward by May. If there is a second vote and it is to remain, I do wonder if the EU will simply continue the UK’s status quo. It certainly can’t and shouldn’t offer anything new; to do so would be to encourage other countries to fake-leave and then cancel it. The whole thing will have cost the institution millions in fruitless negotiations over years (as well as commissioning planning and organisation of Brexit). Don’t get me wrong, I want Brexit to be binned - but choosing to remain at the eleventh hour is not going to solve all the problems England and Wales have sparked over the last two years. Britain’s mental breakdown will have consequences even if they get their shit together and say “sorry - just had a wobble there but we’re over it now”. Frankly, I’m not convinced the UK can simply go back to being a trusted member of the club after the shit it’s been attempting (and the rhetoric its government has been spouting) lately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I'm against a 2nd referendum. The 17.4 million gimps who voted for Brexit deserve what comes their way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Antlion said: If there is a second vote and it is to remain, I do wonder if the EU will simply continue the UK’s status quo. It certainly can’t and shouldn’t offer anything new; to do so would be to encourage other countries to fake-leave and then cancel it. The whole thing will have cost the institution millions in fruitless negotiations over years (as well as commissioning planning and organisation of Brexit). Don’t get me wrong, I want Brexit to be binned - but choosing to remain at the eleventh hour is not going to solve all the problems England and Wales have sparked over the last two years. Britain’s mental breakdown will have consequences even if they get their shit together and say “sorry - just had a wobble there but we’re over it now”. Frankly, I’m not convinced the UK can simply go back to being a trusted member of the club after the shit it’s been attempting (and the rhetoric its government has been spouting) lately. I reckon most, if not all, of the EU countries would be delighted if Brexit was cancelled. I don’t think there would be any desire to make things difficult. The U.K., France and Germany are the three big economies and probably the most stable. No one would want any of the other countries to leave but Poland or Austria, as examples, pulling out would have far lesser impact on those remaining and I think the ‘lesson’ learnt by the Brexit experience would be offered as a reminder of what could happen. With the exception of a few fringe organisations everyone is saying that the best Brexit will be bad and the worst disastrous; I am not surprised that there is a change of thinking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cerberus said: I'm against a 2nd referendum. The 17.4 million gimps who voted for Brexit deserve what comes their way. Where do you live? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Antlion said: If there is a second vote and it is to remain, I do wonder if the EU will simply continue the UK’s status quo. It certainly can’t and shouldn’t offer anything new; to do so would be to encourage other countries to fake-leave and then cancel it. The whole thing will have cost the institution millions in fruitless negotiations over years (as well as commissioning planning and organisation of Brexit). Don’t get me wrong, I want Brexit to be binned - but choosing to remain at the eleventh hour is not going to solve all the problems England and Wales have sparked over the last two years. Britain’s mental breakdown will have consequences even if they get their shit together and say “sorry - just had a wobble there but we’re over it now”. Frankly, I’m not convinced the UK can simply go back to being a trusted member of the club after the shit it’s been attempting (and the rhetoric its government has been spouting) lately. The EU probably know that a lot of the aggro has been caused by the Eurosceptics, right wing media and the likes of Farage et al. and can't really take it out on the current government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Cerberus said: I'm against a 2nd referendum. The 17.4 million gimps who voted for Brexit deserve what comes their way. ^^^As he looks out at San Francisco bay from a bedsit that would pay for a Porsche in monthly rental in Paisley. Edited November 12, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Cerberus said: I'm against a 2nd referendum. The 17.4 million gimps who voted for Brexit deserve what comes their way. I have sympathy for this sentiment. Especially when some of those pushing for a 2nd rederendum were total c@nts in 2014. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Time to change the name of the thread,it is a farce. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 8 hours ago, Antlion said: Interesting position; when, then, are you claiming that the English government ceased to be? (Not caring what English folk think because they chose the Tories and Brexit is a bit problematic when those decisions directly dictate what happens to you and, I suppose, your nation.) i assure you there is nothing interesting about this debate. I never identified a time, merely the current situation. "not caring" was clearly context dependent. As a Scottish nationalist, what effect do you think brexit will have on the arguments for scottish independence? Trade barriers weren't an issue last time and Scotland will have no claim to membership of the EU. I ask as someone who was narrowly against independence last time, and is a definite supporter of EU membership. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Total guess, and admit I could be completely wrong, but I think May is going to sell the DUP down the river and take her chances in a General Election if they bring her down. If N.Ireland stay in the EU or similar then it opens up a whole new range of problems of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 26 minutes ago, Colkitto said: Total guess, and admit I could be completely wrong, but I think May is going to sell the DUP down the river and take her chances in a General Election if they bring her down. If N.Ireland stay in the EU or similar then it opens up a whole new range of problems of course. It's a complete shambles. Part of me would quite like to see the above scenario. That utter cuntress Arlene Foster and her band of creationist weirdos and bigots being punted back to irrelevance would be glorious, especially if they're absolutely humiliated along the way. May calling another unnecessary GE would be quite funny as well, especially if she lost. Imagine being (probably) the only PM to call two unnecessary GE in the space of 2 years and making an arse of both of them Obviously this scenario requires Labour and Corbyn not to make a complete arse of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 It is being suggested that the legal advice that Labour is trying to get published is not in “written form”. So May is taking advice from her attorney general on this huge issue and he’s not prepared to commit that to writing?! Labour will not be the only ones unhappy with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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