Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Does always surprise me how the most frothing at the mouth anti-immigrant folk live in areas with little immigration. Apart from brief periods in Chelsea and Newcastle my entire time in England has been living in areas where "White British" are the minority and every person I've flatshared with, with one exception, has been an immigrant or 2nd generation immigrant. There's no difference between any of them and the natives apart from they are usually more attractive than the English. This has led me to believe Brexiters and UKIPers are just ugly b*****ds upset that this realisation has been forced upon them by the influx of people who don't look like they raid middens for their trackies.

[Fullerene]

9 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I suspect they are making it difficult to leave. Otherwise we wouldn’t be talking about stockpiles of material goods. 

No.  They are protecting their own integrity.

They are not making it difficult to leave.  I doubt they will be sending in tanks.

We are stockpiling because if there is no deal, then there would be enormous delays with importing and exporting everything until we reach a deal on all the things we want to import and export.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Fullerene

[Detournement]

8 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

I live in High Wycombe which has a high % of immigrants and, yes, it does work.  The only folk who give you bother are the white underclass.  This, especially with our Tory MP, isn't a popular view but is true.

Another factor is education.  South Bucks still has the 11+ and selective state grammars.  The consequence?  A group of brainy 12 year olds who are as mixed as it is possible to be and whose school cricket team is pretty decent.  You also have mosques, down here, educating their 9 and 10 yos to go through the 11+.  This is a good thing.

So...access to education is the key here. Well educated weans has got to be our future irrespective of their country of origin.

13 up votes for a post with references to "white underclass" and an outright lie about the diversity of selective schools.

FFS

[Granny Danger]

13 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

The EU is not making it difficult to leave.

It is simply saying we can't have all the privileges of membership without being a member.

That is 100% correct.  They have said it over and over and over but certain people refused to listen.

 

[weegienative]

18 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

This is the opposite of the truth.

The places with high leave votes are ethnically homogeneous. Lincoln. Boston. Redcar. Sunderland. Edinburgh and Glasgow are the most ethnically diverse cities in Scotland and are by and large very hostile to anti-immigration parties.

The real thing that is going on is these leave voting places are deindustrialised. There's sod all high quality stable jobs there so any incomers are seen as stealing what's left for locals either by taking benefits or council houses or driving down wages. Even if they make up less than 1% of the population it's enough to rile people up because it is convenient to believe it's the bad foreigners messing it up rather than a mix of government policy removing the reason for these towns to exist, and people unwilling to accept this and move to where the work is.

As I explained above, Scotland's Brexit vote and indeed to a certain extent the  indyref were a proxy vote to further another agenda.

The Tories, whilst not explicitly anti immigration, were/are implicitly are more so than Labour. When you also consider the irrational hatred of the Tories in Scotland and northern England and the gains made in those areas, how can you come to such a conclusion?

My vpn is coming and going so I can't access some areas of the bbc website to look at polling data. I will do when I land later.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 minutes ago, weegienative said:

The Tories, whilst not explicitly anti immigration,

2 minutes ago, weegienative said:

When you also consider the irrational hatred of the Tories in Scotland

[weegienative]

23 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

If the SNP have fucked up everything they've touched then how do you judge the Torys, Labour and Lib Dems elsewhere in the UK.

I'd say on the whole the Tories have done well economically to tidy up the mess left behind by Labour.

But that's neither here nor there. You're behaving like sturgeon giving deflection after deflection and mentioning the Tories twice a sentence.

Tell me what the SNP have done to prove themselves worthy of a vote let alone be trusted with more powers.

[Ross.]

8 minutes ago, weegienative said:

When you also consider the irrational hatred of the Tories in Scotland and northern England

The Tories are the second biggest party in Scotland by number of MP's returned, and depending on what you define as "Northern England" they have plenty of seats there too. The only thing irrational here is your assertion.

[Paco]

.
The Tories, whilst not explicitly anti immigration, were/are implicitly are more so than Labour.

Net migration hit its all time high under David Cameron’s government in 2015. Net migration in 2017 - the year after the Brexit vote - was higher than at any stage under Labour.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

Plenty anti-immigration noises come from the party but the reality is very different. They’ve been in power for over eight years where immigration has continued to rise, and now EU migration is falling, they’re plugging the gaps from other parts of the world.

It’s an utter myth.

[Ivo den Bieman]

33 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

What can May achieve by her delay? 

A few more days in her job. It's literally all that matters to her, as when the battalion of the Royal Marines is finally despatched to drag her kicking and screaming from no. 10, she'll be lucky to get a job selling whelks on Southend Pier.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

Just now, weegienative said:

I'd say on the whole the Tories have done well economically to tidy up the mess left behind by Labour.

But that's neither here nor there. You're behaving like sturgeon giving deflection after deflection and mentioning the Tories twice a sentence.

Tell me what the SNP have done to prove themselves worthy of a vote let alone be trusted with more powers.

Christ! That old lie. Labour left a mess. You know fine well that the whole global economy went into meltdown. All starting in the US. The sheer greed of the banks led to the economic mess. And if you think that the UK could escape this you are a bigger moron than I thought.

[weegienative]

3 minutes ago, Ross. said:

The Tories are the second biggest party in Scotland by number of MP's returned, and depending on what you define as "Northern England" they have plenty of seats there too. The only thing irrational here is your assertion.

That's exactly the point. That's what's meant by the term "gains" in what have been traditional labour strongholds.

How has that managed to go over your head? 

[Ivo den Bieman]

In what way did the Tories "tidy up the mess" left by Labour?

sheer propaganda. They've made many people's lives a whole lot worse.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2018/10/austerity-how-ideological-project-failed-its-own-terms

[Scary Bear]

16 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

No.  They are protecting their own integrity.

They are not making it difficult to leave.  I doubt they will be sending in tanks.

We are stockpiling because if there is no deal, then there would be enormous delays with importing and exporting everything until we reach a deal on all the things we want to import and export.

Whatever is happening it clearly isn’t an easy process to leave, therefore it appears to me to be difficult. From the outside looking in, it’s an absolute debacle, which is being negotiated by people I have no faith in. The only certainty in an already polarised nation is that there will be enormous feelings of ill will towards the EU from 50% of the U.K. for evermore. Probably not a good basis for a future relationship inside or outside of the EU.

 

[weegienative]

4 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

Net migration hit its all time high under David Cameron’s government in 2015. Net migration in 2017 - the year after the Brexit vote - was higher than at any stage under Labour.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

Plenty anti-immigration noises come from the party but the reality is very different. They’ve been in power for over eight years where immigration has continued to rise, and now EU migration is falling, they’re plugging the gaps from other parts of the world.

It’s an utter myth.

 

Hence the terms explicitly and implicitly...........

[Ross.]

1 minute ago, weegienative said:

That's exactly the point. That's what's meant by the term "gains" in what have been traditional labour strongholds.

How has that managed to go over your head? 

My point is that there is clearly nothing like the level of irrational hatred that you assert(Given their gains), and secondly, that any "hatred" that is involved, while in many cases blind, is certainly not irrational in it's origins.

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

A few more days in her job. It's literally all that matters to her, as when the battalion of the Royal Marines is finally despatched to drag her kicking and screaming from no. 10, she'll be lucky to get a job selling whelks on Southend Pier.

The one thing all these folk have is an over exaggerated sense of pride with a bit of self delusion thrown in.

She must know that she has been humiliated; is she too stupid to see that her humiliation will be compounded when she returns empty handed?

 

[Romeo]

Why are brexitphiles concentrating on labour and the SNP?

[weegienative]

8 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Scottish Tory gains have come from people rallying to them over labour as the no to independence party, probably with a side serving of the memory of the 80s diminishing in the population as a whole, hence we get a tory councillor elected in Ravenscraig. The gutting of people's parents careers is less important than fighting off the theoretical prospect of Scottish independence. Go figure.

Tory gains in northern England I think are more to do with the death of UKIP and Labour's attempt at talking about immigration being perceived as less authentic than that of the tories. Labour's core vote in this part of the country is much less likely to bother to vote. Compare this to labour gains in traditionally tory shires as young professional labour voters get priced out of London and move there.

Labour were also a pro remain party so that's not quite correct. The migration from Labour to tory is due to Labour's reckless handling of the economy and their mass immigration policies. 

I think the death of UKIP probably explains the latest gains, however the migration away from Labour to UKIP was caused again by immigration policy.

The current generation if new voters really are a dangerous bunch. The first group in history who are in favour of handing freedoms, fought for over history, back to the state. It's little surprise they fawn over laughing stocks like Corbyn and Abbott.

[jamieson87]

Is it wrong to actually find this whole farce quite amusing?