Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Ivo den Bieman]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

No deal doesn't need a vote, it will happen by default if nothing else is agreed between the Government and Parliament.

Correct! This, along with May's survival, account sfor the latest bout of can-kicking and pointless meetings with EU prime ministers and presidents.

It wastes a bit more time and gives her opponents less room for maneouvre. May is hell bent on Brexit, absolutely hell bent, and she will be more than happy to leave with no deal if it comes to that.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

No deal doesn't need a vote, it will happen by default if nothing else is agreed between the Government, Parliament and the EU.

It will not happen.   Parliament will find a way to stop it.

I would be happy to bet you that it will not happen.

[harry94]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Yougov are the Tory company FFS

Google Stephan Shakespeare and Na***** Zahawi

YouGov were the one company who called the last election very correctly and recognised that young people were going to turn out and vote Labour. In fact, their seat projections were substantial enough to have given Labour enough to form a government and it was likely that they got things spot on with a wee shift back to the incumbencies in the final days.

Good Tories like to make money and the way you do that from a polling company is getting the correct credentials from doing your job properly. There's no conspiracy of real polling companies rigging data and it's lunacy to suggest so. It's very different to the odd 'DAILY MAIL CAN REVEAL JRM IS MOST POPULAR LEADER IN UNIVERSE FROM OUR EXCLUSIVE (Facebook) POLL'.

It's such an odd thought process and there's not a single piece of logic I can attach to that makes any sense.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

It will not happen.   Parliament will find a way to stop it.

I would be happy to bet you that it will not happen.

I don't think it will either, but Parliament can't force the Government to call say another referendum or to extend Article 50 or whatever. If May refuses it won't happen, even if there's a majority for it. I blame Nick Clegg for the fixed terms act, Parliament used to have more power.

[new kyd in town]

5 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

Correct! This, along with May's survival, account sfor the latest bout of can-kicking and pointless meetings with EU prime ministers and presidents.

It wastes a bit more time and gives her opponents less room for maneouvre. May is hell bent on Brexit, absolutely hell bent, and she will be more than happy to leave with no deal if it comes to that.

I hope you are right. but I think May is more duplicitous than you give her credit for. Her default position is staying in the EU. Surely we can't both be wrong?

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I don't think it will either, but Parliament can't force the Government to call say another referendum or to extend Article 50 or whatever. If May refuses it won't happen, even if there's a majority for it. I blame Nick Clegg for the fixed terms act, Parliament used to have more power.

I am not convinced that this is the case.

[harry94]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I am not convinced that this is the case.

I'm with you Granny. There definitely looks like a mechanism to doing it and the Lib Dems were talking about a motion to add an amendment to the vote that was scheduled today for a second referendum - they were warned off by allies in both parties who I think worried that it would kill it off if they lost in parliament.

I've changed my mind on it. I get the feeling it's where we're going to end up. Neither party will endorse it but what I suspect will happen is that May will present a referendum idea that does not include remain as an option. This will then let Corbyn say 'I respect will of people so believe I could negotiate super duper deal myself BUT if we do it, remain has to be on ballot' and then pass an amendment that carries comfortably.

I don't quite know what the fallout of that would be but I suspect that it's where we're going. I can't anymore see a general election or a referendum (of some sort) not happening. Yvette Cooper seems to be taking up the mantle to find a way to revert the default position away from 'No Deal' by way of proper legislation so I think this might be the starting pistol - not sure if she's done that with some gentle encouragement from the party.

[Paco]

If May was hurtling towards a No Deal, a parliamentary no confidence vote would surely comfortably win?

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Paco said:

If May was hurtling towards a No Deal, a parliamentary no confidence vote would surely comfortably win?

I think it would but that in itself might not derail the Brexit crash out.

 I think harry94 is correct, it will be a procedural amendment of some sort.

 

[RiG]

15 hours ago, gkneil said:

 

 

What an absolute shambles, from a numpty staging a protest by grabbing an ornament, to the visible outrage of others, to the speaker just uttering ‘no no, no no’. The vast majority of people in there are living on another planet.

 

Does this mean that he is the new King of England?

[Granny Danger]

Just now, RiG said:

Does this mean that he is the new King of England?

Mace Raider.  King Beyond the Wall.

[pandarilla]

Ah, poor old Greece.
The country that had been an economic basket case for hundreds of years. Where corruption and fraud in public society were a way of life. Where tax-dodging was rife, and where governments paid little or no interest in collecting the tax due anyway.
It's also a country that had bankrupted itself countless times in the last century. Run up unsustainable debts, then effectively devalue the Drachma and declare itself bankrupt.
That poor old Greece.
The mistake the EU made was not by 'bullying' Greece into adopting modern, fiscal policies. It was by allowing Greece into the Euro and the ERM in the first place, before Greece got its house in order.
And even now, most Greeks want to remain in the EU.
 
 

You're treating countries as individuals.

I don't doubt anything you've said but that doesn't help the ordinary punters who tried to organise an alternative and were hammered by the EU (and other international economic institutions).

[TheScarf]

This is an Omnifuck.

[EvilScotsman]

2 hours ago, weegienative said:

No thanks, I'd rather you just agree or refute it with facts.

Comparing the finances of a nation which can print its own money to the finances of a household is fatuous.

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

You're treating countries as individuals.

I don't doubt anything you've said but that doesn't help the ordinary punters who tried to organise an alternative and were hammered by the EU (and other international economic institutions).

Greek teachers were retiring at 55 on 80% of their final year's salary, paid for in part by taxes paid by German teachers who retire at 65 or 67. They were taking the pish. No wonder they kept voting in corrupt Governments.

Edited December 11, 2018 by welshbairn

[RiG]

May/Brexit in a nutshell:

 

[Granny Danger]

Andy Serkis Gollum take:

 

[Savage Henry]

I'm with you Granny. There definitely looks like a mechanism to doing it and the Lib Dems were talking about a motion to add an amendment to the vote that was scheduled today for a second referendum - they were warned off by allies in both parties who I think worried that it would kill it off if they lost in parliament.

I've changed my mind on it. I get the feeling it's where we're going to end up. Neither party will endorse it but what I suspect will happen is that May will present a referendum idea that does not include remain as an option. This will then let Corbyn say 'I respect will of people so believe I could negotiate super duper deal myself BUT if we do it, remain has to be on ballot' and then pass an amendment that carries comfortably.

I don't quite know what the fallout of that would be but I suspect that it's where we're going. I can't anymore see a general election or a referendum (of some sort) not happening. Yvette Cooper seems to be taking up the mantle to find a way to revert the default position away from 'No Deal' by way of proper legislation so I think this might be the starting pistol - not sure if she's done that with some gentle encouragement from the party.

 

That’s an interesting proposition. I could see it ripping both the Tories (if they are not already) and Labour asunder, as it’s probably safe to say the parties are both as split on the issue as the electorate is.

 

I don’t imagine Brexit will actually happen, but by the time a decision to “bail out” is taken, I’d imagine both May and Corbyn would be out on their rears. Which would be a very good thing for the country.

 

I’ll repeat what has been said often enough in this thread, for all as inept as May has been, Corbyn’s been every bit as incompetent.

 

EDIT: actually, scrap all of that. I’d imagine the Labour Party is far less split on the issue. It’s just that their leader and front bench is so weak and so obviously pro-Brexit. Suffice to say, the carnage from this is going to have permanent repercussions, whichever way this turns out.

[ayrmad]

2 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

 

That’s an interesting proposition. I could see it ripping both the Tories (if they are not already) and Labour asunder, as it’s probably safe to say the parties are both as split on the issue as the electorate is.

I don’t imagine Brexit will actually happen, but by the time a decision to “bail out” is taken, I’d imagine both May and Corbyn would be out on their rears. Which would be a very good thing for the country.

I’ll repeat what has been said often enough in this thread, for all as inept as May has been, Corbyn’s been every bit as incompetent.

 

To be honest, I've not witnessed many if any in either party that could step up to the plate and do much better, we could be doing with another 600 or so Tescos opening up, although I wouldn't allow many to push my own trolley IIBH.

[cyderspaceman]

It seems anyone can change his or her mind...except the electorate. 

I honestly can't see why another referendum is being ruled out.

(except of course by the diehard, staunch,  self-promoting europhobes who know they would lose.

Oh, and the terminally stupid.)