Granny Danger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I’m getting to the stage where I’m simply repeating myself, but there must be Labour Party members, including staunch Corbynistas, the length and breadth of the country shaking their heads at Corbyn’s complete lack of leadership. He is betraying the people that put him there and fought to keep him there. This could turn into a betrayal that will disillusion the very folk that he energised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 The problem Jeremy Corbyn has is his lack of power. Very easy to criticise - and most of it is merited - but the VoNC will be defeated, even after waiting for May to humiliate herself, and coming out in support of another referendum would make absolutely no difference. Given the make up of the Leave vote, what should Jeremy Corbyn be doing right now? I’m not interested in one-liners at PMQs, I mean actual Brexit policy. It’s not as easy as most here seem to think, and I don’t mean that especially as a defence of him. Anything he does alienates a load of either his party or his voters - or in most cases, both. Boiling point is coming though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, welshbairn said: May just mentioned talking to Parliamentarians across the House but only named the DUP. Nuff said. P.S. That's twice. That oughtta do it. Thanks very much, May. Edited January 16, 2019 by Savage Henry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Ross Thomson speaks... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Ross Thomson speaks... Too many poppers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, RiG said: Ross Thomson speaks... I am firmly of the view that violence never solves anything. I am also firmly of the view that every rule has exceptions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Theresa will simply hang on grimly as there is no mechanism by which she can be ousted. The ERG tried and shot their bolt. The likeliest mechanism was an internal challenge and because the ERG couldn't build a sandcastle in the Sahara, she's there for twelve months. Absolutely no one believes that today's vote will oust her, as turkeys don't vote for Christmas- it's just another way to run down the clock whilst looking busy. Next week will be the same shite in a different bog roll. She has no plan B and sees little need to come up with one. Brexit happens by operation of law on March 29 whether there is a deal or not. Corbyn and May are engaged in a macabre dance off to ensure that Brexit happens come what may. All the fog about Canada +++, Norway, the backstop, shrill middle class twitter threads on a second referendum- are not helping anyone other than maybe the writer to feel significant. We are headed straight for No Deal. It doesn't matter if there is no majority in parliament for no deal, this government is quite happy to hold parliament in contempt for another couple of months, hiding behind pointless procedural motions and parliamentary theatre- and then let someone else pick up the pieces. I'm sure Tory spinners are already preparing attack lines of Corbyn being responsible for No Deal owing to his (almost certainly doomed) obsession with forcing a General Election. Corbyn is determined to avoid a second referendum, and the latest lines out of Labour HQ is that he will "decide on this by himself" and "won't be bullied by MPs". Well, whoopee-do then. Isn't "not being bullied by MPs" basically Theresa May's stance, too? The only way out is an extension to Article 50, agreed across party lines, as soon as possible. Given that the Prime Minister - the only one who has the power to actually start an extension process- isn't really in the mood to do so, it's only a faint hope. May and Corbyn are as bad as one another. They will both be flushed away by the fall out from a No Deal Brexit- as may their parties. The UK is lost between their two irreconcilable obsessions; May's with immigration, and Corbyn's with forcing an election. Edited January 16, 2019 by Ivo den Bieman 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said: Theresa will simply hang on grimly as there is no mechanism by which she can be ousted. The ERG tried and shot their bolt. The likeliest mechanism was an internal challenge and because the ERG couldn't build a sandcastle in the Sahara, she's there for twelve months. Absolutely no one believes that today's vote will oust her, as turkeys don't vote for Christmas- it's just another way to run down the clock whilst looking busy. Next week will be the same shite in a different bog roll. She has no plan B and sees little need to come up with one. Brexit happens by operation of law on March 29 whether there is a deal or not. Corbyn and May are engaged in a macabre dance off to ensure that Brexit happens come what may. All the fog about Canada +++, Norway, the backstop, shrill middle class twitter threads on a second referendum- are not helping anyone other than maybe the writer to feel significant. We are headed straight for No Deal. It doesn't matter if there is no majority in parliament for no deal, this government is quite happy to hold parliament in contempt for another couple of months, hiding behind pointless procedural motions and parliamentary theatre- and then let someone else pick up the pieces. I'm sure Tory spinners are already preparing attack lines of Corbyn being responsible for No Deal owing to his (almost certainly doomed) obsession with forcing a General Election. Corbyn is determined to avoid a second referendum, and the latest lines out of Labour HQ is that he will "decide on this by himself" and "won't be bullied by MPs". Well, whoopee-do then. Isn't "not being bullied by MPs" basically Theresa May's stance, too? The only way out is an extension to Article 50, agreed across party lines, as soon as possible. Given that the Prime Minister - the only one who has the power to actually start an extension process- isn't really in the mood to do so, it's only a faint hope. May and Corbyn are as bad as one another. They will both be flushed away by the fall out from a No Deal Brexit- as may their parties. Cannot point to the source, but it has been stated that the HoC can wrest control from the government. Given our lack of a written constitution (assisted by a ‘friendly’ speaker) I am inclined to accept that as a possibility. It would be a game changer. Maybe @Ad Lib could advise (or strongly advise ) assuming it wouldn’t compromise him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Too many poppers. Not always a bad thing tbf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 44 minutes ago, Rodhull said: So he's right to doom the country to a disastrous no-deal Brexit just because it will suit the Labour party? I don't see them being able to do much to reduce poverty even if they got in after Brexit anyway. They'd be too busy trying to put out the fires they helped to bring about by standing idly by. How is he dooming the country to a No Deal Brexit? If May's next offers to Parliament are rejected i'm sure Labour will ask for A50 to be extended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Question for the more enlightened.Would No Deal not compromise & effectively rip up the GFA? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Detournement said: How is he dooming the country to a No Deal Brexit? If May's next offers to Parliament are rejected i'm sure Labour will ask for A50 to be extended. How are Labour going to be in a position to ask for anything? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brother Blades said: Question for the more enlightened. Would No Deal not compromise & effectively rip up the GFA? Yes it would. Don’t underestimate the number of Tory MPs and voters who see the GFA as being overhyped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Rodhull said: How are Labour going to be in a position to ask for anything? They would whip to back an extension. There are already talks of backbenchers plotting with Bercow to allow a non government bill to come in front of the house to extend A50. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Brother Blades said: Question for the more enlightened. Would No Deal not compromise & effectively rip up the GFA? I've seen it said that the GFA doesn't actually mention the border. No idea if that is true. The constitutional changes for NI proposed by the Tories in last night's defeated bill were a complete disgrace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rodhull said: How are Labour going to be in a position to ask for anything? Because most other opposition MPs and many Tory MPs will support such an extension. However the EU will only extend Article 50 if there is good reason, ie a GE or another referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thought that Corbyn was doing OK but drifting off Brexit to general Tories are c***s stuff shows he has no interest in power and wants to remain an angry protester. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Cannot point to the source, but it has been stated that the HoC can wrest control from the government. Given our lack of a written constitution (assisted by a ‘friendly’ speaker) I am inclined to accept that as a possibility. It would be a game changer. Maybe @Ad Lib could advise (or strongly advise ) assuming it wouldn’t compromise him. I'm guessing he's no longer able to contribute to threads like these, but his tuppence (or thirty five quid) worth would be pretty useful right about now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: Thought that Corbyn was doing OK but drifting off Brexit to general Tories are c***s stuff shows he has no interest in power and wants to remain an angry protester. People die every single day because of Tory austerity. It should always be Labour's number one priority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieson87 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: Thought that Corbyn was doing OK but drifting off Brexit to general Tories are c***s stuff shows he has no interest in power and wants to remain an angry protester. He's probably shit scared of actually coming into power. Been quite happy as a backbencher all these years, he's not got what it takes. Utterly depressing lack of talent within British politics at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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