Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

A world where the leaders of the two main (English) parties are knights of the realm - and the fúcking GBP can't vote for a man with a beard. Thank fúck I'll be dead soon.

Thanks for the concern I inadvertently provoked with the above - a wee explanation required, methinks. Here's the meat of a reply I sent to a PM earlier..

I'm just a grumpy old* fucker at times, and the combination of Brexit and covid over the last few years has shown the general population (to my mind) to be just as stupid and selfish as the popularity of reality TV and Celebrity Culture would suggest. The relentless repetition of "when can I get back to what I like and f**k the schools/old folk/economy" is a particular bugbear of mine - we get it, you've had to stop going to fives/your weekly darts night/your week in Benidorm. The whole fucking world's on hold, so focus elsewhere, ffs! Adjust! I've built more models (ok, a bit niche, but substitute any covid-compliant** hobby), spent more time with family (in person when possible, online when not), probably just about finished Netflix and Prime Video, read a fuckload of books and nearly walked the legs off the hound. All while working full-time throughout this clusterfuck.

As for Brexit, I'm slightly heartened in a wee bit of online discussion already asking, "how long will it take to rejoin?" I think a lot have realised they've been duped, but that's a hard thing to admit. These clowns in WM have got nearly four years to present themselves as competent before the next GE, and there really aren't any dog-whistles left. Nil Desperandum, eh, as the Glorious Haystack would no doubt mumble.

I have faith that there are enough in the next generation (especially in the North (of England)) to bring us back from the brink, but I'll be properly old by that time, and probably won't have had the greatest retirement. I will, eventually, go happily though, if the next generation have corrected our generation's errors and maybe, just maybe, forgiven those of us who didn't place money and flags before people. My conscience is, and always will be, clean on that score - but our kids and grandkids are going to fucking hate us for denying them all the opportunities we took for granted. How many of them can tell the difference between a Spitfire and a Hurricane, though, eh?  Bloody Millenial Snowflakes!

* Fifty seven next week, but recent dances with cancer and a stroke last year kind of slow you down and make you realise there probably isn't a telegram from Buck House in my future. Ironically, I'm healthier now than I was when the Big C first showed up. Not a regime I'd recommend to everybody, but I made the changes which I had to, and feel all the better for it.

** Anything which can be done at home, basically. Away from people. I don't like people. And after this year, I really, really don't fucking like people.

 

[jakedee]

Intervening in the Internal Market debate, making sure that he gets his UK good, Scotland bad points across.
Put in his place by Drew Hendry and Joanna Cherry several times, but persisted with the ( no doubt) whips line.

What's the snivelling wee f**k been up to now?

[Detournement]

What should Labour do?

Voting for No Deal would be risky as Tory Brexiteer MPs might pull a fast one and follow them into the No division. They have also spent four years banging on about No Deal being the Apocalypse so would look like hypocrites.

Voting for the deal looks like backing Boris and the BBC would forever say "but you voted for it" and stick an equal blame on Labour. 

There are no good options because the ultra Remain MPs including Starmer destroyed every opportunity to create a cross party consensus when May offered and later when the chance of a progressive coalition was on the table. 

[John Lambies Doos]

What should Labour do?
Voting for No Deal would be risky as Tory Brexiteer MPs might pull a fast one and follow them into the No division. They have also spent four years banging on about No Deal being the Apocalypse so would look like hypocrites.
Voting for the deal looks like backing Boris and the BBC would forever say "but you voted for it" and stick an equal blame on Labour. 
There are no good options because the ultra Remain MPs including Starmer destroyed every opportunity to create a cross party consensus when May offered and later when the chance of a progressive coalition was on the table. 

You are militant Labour, what would you do?

[John Lambies Doos]

So basically the border is now down the Irish Sea[emoji106][emoji106]
Great news on both fronts.. Step towards United Ireland and DUP will be fuming....[emoji23]

[Detournement]

37 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

50 minutes ago, Detournement said:

What should Labour do?
Voting for No Deal would be risky as Tory Brexiteer MPs might pull a fast one and follow them into the No division. They have also spent four years banging on about No Deal being the Apocalypse so would look like hypocrites.
Voting for the deal looks like backing Boris and the BBC would forever say "but you voted for it" and stick an equal blame on Labour. 
There are no good options because the ultra Remain MPs including Starmer destroyed every opportunity to create a cross party consensus when May offered and later when the chance of a progressive coalition was on the table. 

You are militant Labour, what would you do?

Use North Korean brainwashing techniques to turn Starmer into a comrade.

On this vote it's probably the right move to abstain. The real battles were lost long ago.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

22 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

So basically the border is now down the Irish Sea
Great news on both fronts.. Step towards United Ireland and DUP will be fuming....

Hopefully a United Ireland would have a positive effect on Scottish Yoons and they see don’t need to vote to hold the Union together ‘cause religion and Rangers.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Hopefully a United Ireland would have a positive effect on Scottish Yoons and they see don’t need to vote to hold the Union together ‘cause religion and Rangers.

It's probably 20:1 in terms of people who are pro Union for their net worth compared to GSTQ types.

[Ira Gaines]

If I were Labour, I'd do nothing. Scottish Labour have a more interesting problem, since Scotland voted to remain and the support for Brexit will fall further. However, we know that they'll simply just give it "WAH WAH WAH" about independence because they don't know how to do anything else.

The Westminster lot have a few years really. So seeing how it plays out is probably the best way to play it. Because there's no guarantee that the support will fall enough to matter. Wait for the problems to kick in, gauge the reaction and then start making moves.

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Well see when its looking like cars ordered will be subject to a 10% tariff if delivered after january, then yes its a saving/discount etc. 

Not if you're ordering from the importer at a pre-agreed price. If you're ordering from the EU and importing it yourself it would be a discount. 

[John Lambies Doos]

It's probably 20:1 in terms of people who are pro Union for their net worth compared to GSTQ types.

Not in NI.....

[Rodhull]

Between that and Ineos deciding not to build their 4x4 in Bridgend but in France instead this seems to be going tits up even quicker than expected.

[Jacksgranda]

22 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

NI voted for Remain but not by a huge margin.  It wouldn’t surprise me if the Remain/Leave vote was very much down sectarian lines.

A United Ireland would solve so much.

Only for rUK

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

Only for rUK

You don’t think that in the medium-to-long term it would be best for the island of Ireland?

[btb]

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

So basically the border is now down the Irish Sea
Great news on both fronts.. Step towards United Ireland and DUP will be fuming....

Not just the DUP, the HoL amendments were voted down in the Commons by 357-268 last night,  so with 10 DUP MPs I'm guessing 347 Tories voted in favour just to see them given away less than 24 hours later. The controversial sections of the Bill were essentially a bargaining ploy by the UK government, an obvious deal-breaker for the EU and BJ ditching them means we're going to sign something in the next few days (famous last words).

Not that it bothers me much but the 357 who voted the amendments down last night must be feeling pretty foolish today!

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by btb

[Jacksgranda]

We wouldn't know that until/if it happened.

Going by the total nonentities/backscratchers/cronyists/c****s in power on both sides of the border I hardly think they'll make a roaring success of it.

Plus it would need eyewatering amounts of EU money for years and years.

[John Lambies Doos]

Not just the DUP, the HoL amendments were voted down in the Commons by 357-268 last night,  so with 10 DUP MPs I'm guessing 347 Tories voted in favour just to see them given away less than 24 hours later. The controversial sections of the Bill were essentially a bargaining ploy by the UK government, an obvious deal-breaker for the EU and BJ ditching them means we're going to sign something in the next few days (famous last words).
Not that it bothers me much but the 357 who voted the amendments down last night must be feeling pretty foolish today!
 

If they are going to sign a deal then these weren't going to ever be needed, so why alienate half the party?

[jakedee]

We wouldn't know that until/if it happened.
Going by the total nonentities/backscratchers/cronyists/c****s in power on both sides of the border I hardly think they'll make a roaring success of it.
Plus it would need eyewatering amounts of EU money for years and years.

As someone who has little/none knowledge of the workings in Ireland, why would it take "eye watering amounts of EU money" if it united?

[Jacksgranda]

The RoI couldn't afford to keep the citizens of NI in the manner to which we are accustomed without bankrupting themselves, so would have to go with the begging bowl to Brussels.

[Jacksgranda]

4 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

19 minutes ago, btb said:

Not just the DUP, the HoL amendments were voted down in the Commons by 357-268 last night,  so with 10 DUP MPs I'm guessing 347 Tories voted in favour just to see them given away less than 24 hours later. The controversial sections of the Bill were essentially a bargaining ploy by the UK government, an obvious deal-breaker for the EU and BJ ditching them means we're going to sign something in the next few days (famous last words).
Not that it bothers me much but the 357 who voted the amendments down last night must be feeling pretty foolish today!
 

If they are going to sign a deal then these weren't going to ever be needed, so why alienate half the party?

It was a negotiating tactic.