welshbairn Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, harry94 said: I don't think they can really have any regrets tbh. The deal they presented was always going to be the same and the idea that another few months would have prevented the backstop problem is fantasy. The backstop isn't a problem, it's a solution to a problem and right now, it's the only one there. If a better solution becomes available, it can be used. I think the biggest thing that the EU will regret is if there were discussions (I know this is in the press but it does seem like it was briefed to point fingers and deflect blame) behind closed doors and they told May to go for the General Election in 2017. Had that not happened, the meaningful vote legislation would have likely failed (although it would be tight) and the government could have forced through the withdrawal agreement quite quickly. I think the consensus at the time was that the victory would have been too narrow to feel comfortable with but the general election would have given them a very very easy task as it was so sure that they would be returned with a working majority well upwards of 50. Well they're now talking about starting negotiating the final deal before we withdraw, and extending A50 to 2021. So I'd say that sounds like quite a turnaround. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: Well they're now talking about starting negotiating the final deal before we withdraw, and extending A50 to 2021. So I'd say that sounds like quite a turnaround. Excellent, stuck in limbo for another couple of years by which time we'll have no employers, no investment and no airline routes left in the country. Ok, a bit of an exaggeration there, however indefinite uncertainty is the worst thing that can possibly happen from an economic perspective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 43 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: On the bright side, half the bigoted, ignorant auld fuckers who voted for this chaos will have shuffled off to the big Alf Garnett living room in the sky. Every cloud and all that. I think this is quite important. If we are effectively locked into the EU by the next GE then there will be a significant demographic change. That change will impact hugely on a future Brexit position. There’s also a possibility of Corbyn not being Labour Party leader and/or Labour Party members forcing through an unambiguous policy of staying in the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, welshbairn said: Well they're now talking about starting negotiating the final deal before we withdraw, and extending A50 to 2021. So I'd say that sounds like quite a turnaround. The trade deal has always been possible to negotiate the moment the withdrawal agreement is ratified. I don't think anything has changed there. There was also willingness really early on to be quite flexible and push in some stuff to the withdrawal agreement if it helped May domestically, there is a fair bit in there that was quite surprising and this is obviously something helpful if it's easier to get through the EU (as the WA is just a majority vote). The extension stuff has had 2021 mooted for a while as it's the date logical with their budgeting etc and a few weeks won't really do anything. We'll see how it plays out but I still doubt that the EU are just going to throw an extension on the table unless there is a material change in circumstances (a change in red lines, referendum, general election, change in government or peoples assemblies - just something to change how we proceed). I think they are tired of our shite tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I think this is quite important. If we are effectively locked into the EU by the next GE then there will be a significant demographic change. That change will impact hugely on a future Brexit position. There’s also a possibility of Corbyn not being Labour Party leader and/or Labour Party members forcing through an unambiguous policy of staying in the EU. I thought by this point polling would be much different by now tbh but there is a steady shift. In the 18 months, we've not actually seen any sort of change implemented and we're pushing towards that 10% regret mark with polls published yesterday. It might not come quick enough but maybe the idea is that if things are delayed a bit further, that will maybe hit 15-20% and parties will be comfortable to take firmer positions. Edited February 25, 2019 by harry94 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said: On the bright side, half the bigoted, ignorant auld fuckers who voted for this chaos will have shuffled off to the big Alf Garnett living room in the sky. Every cloud and all that. 1 hour ago, HTG said: I suspect that's how many folk will feel - particularly Leave voters. I might be ignorant and auld but I don't think I'm bigoted and I didn't vote for this chaos. I also voted Yes in the Indyref, and will make sure I have an address in Scotland when we get an Indyref2 - just to make sure I can vote Yes again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, harry94 said: The trade deal has always been possible to negotiate the moment the withdrawal agreement is ratified. I don't think anything has changed there. There was also willingness really early on to be quite flexible and push in some stuff to the withdrawal agreement if it helped May domestically, there is a fair bit in there that was quite surprising and this is obviously something helpful if it's easier to get through the EU (as the WA is just a majority vote). The extension stuff has had 2021 mooted for a while as it's the date logical with their budgeting etc and a few weeks won't really do anything. We'll see how it plays out but I still doubt that the EU are just going to throw an extension on the table unless there is a material change in circumstances (a change in red lines, referendum, general election, change in government or peoples assemblies - just something to change how we proceed). I think they are tired of our shite tbh. Indeed I see no benefit for the EU in extending A50 if it just leads to TM racking up the air miles or has that been her real plan all along? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsOfficialMoaner Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, btb said: Indeed I see no benefit for the EU in extending A50 if it just leads to TM racking up the air miles or has that been her real plan all along? If May’s deal is not going to go through I think the EU would grant even a short term extension if they thought No Deal was the alternative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 The EU don't want us to leave. Their entire negotiating strategy is designed to stop us leaving. Hopefully the ERG will vote no confidence if she repeals the Withdrawal Act and we can have an election. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, Detournement said: The EU don't want us to leave. Their entire negotiating strategy is designed to stop us leaving. Hopefully the ERG will vote no confidence if she repeals the Withdrawal Act and we can have an election. At least they appear to have a "negotiating strategy" which is a damn sight more than we've got. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, Detournement said: The EU don't want us to leave. Their entire negotiating strategy is designed to stop us leaving. Hopefully the ERG will vote no confidence if she repeals the Withdrawal Act and we can have an election. An election. With the Tories and Labour presumably again standing on manifesto commitments to respect the 'result of the Referendum' - how exactly would that take us forward ? Or are you suggesting that Corbyn might be drugged persuaded to alter Labour's stance on a commitment to a second vote ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 No Labour would stick with the position outlined in the letter to May a few weeks ago. The point of politics isn't to keep changing position until policy is line with the wishes of financial capital. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Rubin Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Would today be a good day to engage in some brexit political betting? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Detournement said: No Labour would stick with the position outlined in the letter to May a few weeks ago. The point of politics isn't to keep changing position until policy is line with the wishes of financial capital. And here was me thinking this was a forum for communal discussion and not a vehicle for pretension. Ach weel.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, Billy Rubin said: Would today be a good day to engage in some brexit political betting? I bet Nigel Farage is a c**t. I don’t think I’d get good odds on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 44 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: An election. With the Tories and Labour presumably again standing on manifesto commitments to respect the 'result of the Referendum' - how exactly would that take us forward ? Or are you suggesting that Corbyn might be drugged persuaded to alter Labour's stance on a commitment to a second vote ? If there was a GE none of the parties would get away with fudging the Brexit issue IMO. They would have to make their positions clear or suffer the consequences during the campaign. At the last Labour conference delegates passed a composite motion in good faith on the basis that Corbyn would respect it. I can’t see them being so naive again and given the overwhelming opposition to Brexit by Labour Party members any attempt to tacitly support Brexit won’t make it into the manifesto. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: If there was a GE none of the parties would get away with fudging the Brexit issue IMO. They would have to make their positions clear or suffer the consequences during the campaign. At the last Labour conference delegates passed a composite motion in good faith on the basis that Corbyn would respect it. I can’t see them being so naive again and given the overwhelming opposition to Brexit by Labour Party members any attempt to tacitly support Brexit won’t make it into the manifesto. I think all candidates from all parties should have to state their own stance on Brexit. The party manifestos will be pretty meaningless as the new MP's will ignore the whips if they're asked to vote the opposite of what they believe. It could be written on the ballot which could serve as a referendum on it's own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Imagine waiting 2 yrs, do f**k all and ask for an extension to kick the can down the road whilst still doing f**k all. Meanwhile business after business leaves.Absolute British Minterage at the highest level. Glen would be proud 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Billy Rubin said: Would today be a good day to engage in some brexit political betting? Bet on a 2nd referendum, it's on 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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