Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The DUP have 27 votes out of 90, but they're demanding the right to force a customs border in Ireland on their say so alone. That's a massive change to the status quo that the cross community support rules were meant to mitigate.

Sinn Fein have 27 seats, too. They're being handed the right to keep NI in a customs union on their say so alone.

[carpetmonster]

Have them fight on Harry Hill. My money's on big Arlene. 

[John Lambies Doos]

What a fucking big waste of time

[LongTimeLurker]

11 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The DUP have 27 votes out of 90, but they're demanding the right to force a customs border in Ireland on their say so alone. That's a massive change to the status quo that the cross community support rules were meant to mitigate, not enable.

It really isn't. A fundamental aspect of the GFA was that the representatives of both Unionists and Nationalists both have to agree on major changes and that petitions of concern can be made from either side to trigger that mechanism on any important vote. You need to listen to what people in Belfast are saying rather than getting your information about NI through the filter of the BBC in London.

Edited October 19, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Colkitto]

The farce just never stops 

[welshbairn]

11 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Sinn Fein have 27 seats, too. They're being handed the right to keep NI in a customs union on their say so alone.

They need 46 votes under the new WA. The DUP are demanding the right to pull out with 27 votes.

Edited October 19, 2019 by welshbairn

[John Lambies Doos]

Sinn Fein have 27 seats, too. They're being handed the right to keep NI in a customs union on their say so alone.

And so they should stay in a customs union. Best of both worlds and much better for the people in the North

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:

14 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Sinn Fein have 27 seats, too. They're being handed the right to keep NI in a customs union on their say so alone.

And so they should stay in a customs union. Best of both worlds and much better for the people in the North

Donegal's staying in it.

DUP veto bad, Sinn Fein veto good. O.k.

[Jacksgranda]

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

They need 46 votes under the new WA. The DUP are demanding the right to pull out with 27 votes.

No they're not.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The six Labour MPs who rebelled to oppose the Letwin amendment were:

Kevin Barron (Rother Valley)
Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley)
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse)
Caroline Flint (Don Valley)
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
John Mann (Bassetlaw)

The usual c***s then?

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It really isn't. A fundamental aspect of the GFA was that the representatives of both Unionists and Nationalists both have to agree on major changes and that petitions of concern can be made from either side to trigger that mechanism on any important vote. You need to listen to what people in Belfast are saying rather than getting your information about NI through the filter of the BBC in London.

The BBC haven't gone into it and I doubt I'd be better informed by doing a Vox Pop in Belfast. The DUP have chosen to define the status quo as being treated identically to the rest of the UK, which would give them a veto. Others could define the status quo as no border in Ireland, which would give Sinn Fein a veto. In these circumstances a simple majority is the only fair way, which means neither party gets a veto.

[LongTimeLurker]

Fingers crossed that the DUP support a second referendum amendment on Monday and this whole Brexit farce can still be reversed.

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The six Labour MPs who rebelled to oppose the Letwin amendment were:

Kevin Barron (Rother Valley)
Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley)
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse)
Caroline Flint (Don Valley)
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
John Mann (Bassetlaw)

The usual c***s then?

Was wondering whether Kate Hoey would go with the Tories or the DUP.

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Fingers crossed that the DUP support a second referendum amendment on Monday and this whole Brexit farce can still be reversed.

Depends what the question is.

After all, we've already had a referendum on leaving/remain, a new ref should be about this deal, accept/reject.

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, Jacksgranda said:

Depends what the question is.

After all, we've already had a referendum on leaving/remain, a new ref should be about this deal, accept/reject.

Accept Deal and Leave vs Revoke Article 50 and Remain is the obvious question. We'll see what happens.

[Jacksgranda]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The BBC haven't gone into it and I doubt I'd be better informed by doing a Vox Pop in Belfast. The DUP have chosen to define the status quo as being treated identically to the rest of the UK, which would give them a veto. Others could define the status quo as no border in Ireland, which would give Sinn Fein a veto. In these circumstances a simple majority is the only fair way, which means neither party gets a veto.

A simple majority, de facto, gives Sinn Fein a veto. Them + SDLP + 1 nr independent + Alliance + Greens + PBP = 50. (They don't actually need the Greens and PBP, and in the highly unlikely event of the Greens and PBP voting with the unionists the pro EU parties still have a majority.)

[John Lambies Doos]

Donegal's staying in it.
DUP veto bad, Sinn Fein veto good. O.k.

No, it's called the North within the nationalist community and you know that fine well. Absolutely nothing to do with Donegal

[Jacksgranda]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

17 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Donegal's staying in it.
DUP veto bad, Sinn Fein veto good. O.k.

No, it's called the North within the nationalist community and you know that fine well. Absolutely nothing to do with Donegal

The north of Ireland is Donegal.

It may well be called the north within the nationalist community, but Sinn Fein are all about respect. Not much respect if they can't call the country by it's right name.

I worked for a man who is part of the nationalist community and he always referred to it as Northern Ireland.

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

A simple majority, de facto, gives Sinn Fein a veto. Them + SDLP + 1 nr independent + Alliance + Greens + PBP = 50. (They don't actually need the Greens and PBP, and in the highly unlikely event of the Greens and PBP voting with the unionists the pro EU parties still have a majority.)

Should the Alliance party not have a say then? Just leave it to both extremes? Because the DUP represent a minority view on Brexit doesn't mean Sinn Fein have a veto.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by welshbairn

[LongTimeLurker]

9 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

...Absolutely nothing to do with Donegal

More's the pity. Some of us have forebears who did their bit to try to keep it British. A second referendum could be hilarious. What would Sinn Fein do if the DUPes were suddenly pushing people to vote Remain to save the Union?

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Should the Alliance party not have a say then? Just leave it to both extremes?

They have temporarily designated themselves as Unionist at least once in the past to influence a vote where the double majority mechanism was in place so they are not necessarily excluded.