Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[eez-eh]

18 hours ago, McSpreader said:

A lot of people in business are really happy the pound has  fallen as it was overpriced anyway. That's the problem with having a strong, vibrant economy, stable democracy , a well educated work force with good worker's rights and access to unlimited cheap labour.

This fall is, in part, a correction. Inward investment , already high, could now increase ( if people stopped being negative about Brexit it would happen sooner,) The cost of our goods is now cheaper within foreign markets. Great for exporters. More foreigners will visit the UK because of the low pound. Great for anyone who is involved in tourism.

Every cloud has a silver lining so stop yer fretting.

You have zero understanding of economics.

People happy at the pound falling can be filed along with the fisherman who think this is all wonderful. It might, selfishly, appear good to them as individuals due to their personal circumstances but unfortunately for the other 99% of the economy that everything depends on it's all a bit shit.

The examples you list are of miniscule relevance compared to everything that is going wrong as a result. It's a bit like arguing that the financial crisis wasn't so bad because some bankers managed to make a killing in the run up to it.

Oh and the thing you mention about exports: as an economy we import a lot more than we export. Hence it is far better for our economic standing that the pound is strong, you want it to be fucking overvalued. I don't think any amount of tourists are going to offset this shit-storm.

Oh and as for your mewlings about negativity - it's not going to fucking change as businesses and people are very right to be negative about it, which will only make it worse. You can't just wave a magic wand and tell everyone to be positive about it.

But aye, stop the fretting, it's all fine.

[the jambo-rocker]

7 hours ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Folk calling for boycotts of Unilever products providing the first bit of real schadenfreude from this whole fallout.

Imagine having to consume non Hellmann's mayo. Woooooft.

Allioi is better than hellmans anyway and making the change will almost make the brexit vote worth it IMO.

Edited October 13, 2016 by the jambo-rocker

[McSpreader]

4 hours ago, eez-eh said:

You have zero understanding of economics.

People happy at the pound falling can be filed along with the fisherman who think this is all wonderful. It might, selfishly, appear good to them as individuals due to their personal circumstances but unfortunately for the other 99% of the economy that everything depends on it's all a bit shit.

The examples you list are of miniscule relevance compared to everything that is going wrong as a result. It's a bit like arguing that the financial crisis wasn't so bad because some bankers managed to make a killing in the run up to it.

Oh and the thing you mention about exports: as an economy we import a lot more than we export. Hence it is far better for our economic standing that the pound is strong, you want it to be fucking overvalued. I don't think any amount of tourists are going to offset this shit-storm.

Oh and as for your mewlings about negativity - it's not going to fucking change as businesses and people are very right to be negative about it, which will only make it worse. You can't just wave a magic wand and tell everyone to be positive about it.

But aye, stop the fretting, it's all fine.

So you accept that some business people are happy with the lower value of the pound and you agree that homeland tourism businesses will benefit.

You will also, in that case , probably agree that some people believe that a lower pound creates new opportunities for Britain to re-balance it's economy away from importing to manufacturing. Obviously that will take time but it is an opportunity. Maybe people can re-learn to support British producers.

Yes there will be higher prices but we have a choice in a lot of what we buy and a lot of what we buy is unnecessary shite anyway.

Get angry by all means, but that isn't my way. I prefer positivity, pity that annoys you but that's for you to deal with, not for me to deal with.

Btw, YOU , like most posters on here, are very good at taking a statement I make as an observation......for example that people voted Brexit because those people felt there was too much immigration, or that some business people are happy that the pound has fallen in value and then slam ME as though it is my OPINION when in fact those are my OBSERVATIONS......There is a difference...It's whether you have the intelligence to recognise that.

 

[Jambomo]

So you accept that some business people are happy with the lower value of the pound and you agree that homeland tourism businesses will benefit.

How did you manage to read that from what he has written? That's not what I read his post to mean at all.

Not all business people are alike but I doubt that many will enjoy the short-term benefits from the pound falling, most of them will be much more concerned about the long term effect that not being in the EU will bring. These things don't work in isolation.

As for tourism business doing better? A low pound doesn't guarantee that at all, especially depending on what happens with free movement - having to get a visa may put people off.

eta: The actual value of positivity in people's everyday life is something that's debated. Some people believe that things happen and you can influence events if you have a positive outlook. It's considered by others to be very overrated as an influencing factor though.

It may or may not be true but it is almost certain that a persons attitude to large scale national events has almost no impact on them. The press/Brexiters etc might tell people to be positive about it but there's nobody around to be influenced by it and even if there was, the Tories aren't concerned with what the public actually wants - only with what it can conceivably get away with saying they want and feel. Talking about people's attitudes to Brexit is a waste of time either way.

[williemillersmoustache]

Listen cunto, if you think that there is a grain of truth in describing 48% of the UK population and 62% of Scotlands as the enemy, then you need to shut the f**k up and f**k the  f**k off.

Regardless, if the markets go up or down, some people will benefit.  Will the pound being worth the same as 50g grams of pure marmite be a good thing for a majority of people? No, but as with any volatility some folk will be able to take advantage.  However, your insufferable failure to understand some of the most basic tenets of economics pales into insignificance next to the fact you think it is ok to describe people as the 'enemy' who want democratic scrutiny and process to decide the next steps in our countries journey, rather than scary pictures of brown people and some lies on a bus.

[williemillersmoustache]

 

Theresa May’s cynical Brexit stance has put her head on the block

Quote

Understand what this government is trying to get away with, and think about how it is trying to get away with it, and you will see it is reconstituting the oldest and dirtiest alliance in Tory-history: the alliance between snobs and mobs.

I accept it takes a while to see our new rulers for what they are. Theresa May represents the dormitory town of Maidenhead. Although Eton College is just a few miles down the Thames valley, she could not be further socially and intellectually from David Cameron’s public school chumocracy. As for inciting mobs, what more ridiculous charge could I level against her? May seems to have no need to incite anyone. The far left has destroyed the opposition so thoroughly it will take Labour a generation to recover. A Conservative party that officially wanted to keep us in the European Union, then lost the referendum and its prime minister and chancellor, is nevertheless so far ahead in the polls it would win a landslide if there were an election tomorrow.

For all her apparent dominance, May’s cynicism and folly is forcing her to turn-brutish. She is going for a hard Brexit, which the majority of the Commons does not support, whose consequences were not spelt out to the British people, and which May, her Home Secretary Amber Rudd and Chancellor Philip Hammond do not — if we take at face value their public pronouncements during the referendum campaign — believe in.

The referendum mandated the government to take Britain out of the EU. That was all. Voters did not say and were not asked whether we wanted to stay in the single-market or customs union. We did not say and were not asked whether EU citizens should be left in fear of being wrenched from their jobs and, in many cases, their new families. Nor did we say we wanted a hard Brexit at the 2015 election. On the contrary, the voters returned a Conservative government whose manifesto declared: ‘We say yes to the -single market.’

May doesn’t care. Like Charles I, she is trying to rule without Parliament. She is-graciously allowing MPs to ask questions about Brexit, but telling them they have no right to decide on the terms of our departure. All that matters is that she has decided, like an absolute monarch, that the referendum was all about immigration. The only way to stop free movement is to abandon the single market and in all probability the customs union too. The know-nothing Tory papers cheer her on with asinine adulation. David Davis, who began his career as a Hampden and is ending it as a Strafford, assures the impotent Commons they need not worry about the plans of their betters because there will be ‘no downside to Brexit at all’.

You only have to look at the plummeting pound, or listen to increasingly frantic business leaders, to suspect those words will haunt Davis to his grave. Somewhere in her mind, Theresa May must sense the coming job losses and fear the naive euphoria cannot last. So she summons the old Tory-alliance of snob and mob to keep a potentially hostile Commons in line.

At the Tory conference she contrasted her plain and honest self with those condescending elite politicians, who look down their well-bred noses at the public’s patriotism and concern about crime and immigration, and cannot understand why 17.4 million voted to leave the EU. Just to rub their dainty noses in the dirt, Amber Rudd proposes that businesses be forced to declare how many foreign workers they employ, like making harlots wear scarlet letters, and Jeremy Hunt warns foreign doctors needlessly cluttering up the NHS that their days in Britain are numbered.

If a few more Poles are beaten up because of their British nationalist postures, who cares? Only liberal elitists whine about the post-Brexit thugfest.

The snob-mob alliance is as old as the Tory party is. In 1780, patriotic Protestants incited the Gordon riots against the Whigs who favoured Catholic emancipation. From Randolph Churchill in 1886 through to F. E. Smith in 1914, Tory leaders incited Ulster Protestants to riot, and at the Curragh, the British army to mutiny to stop the Liberals giving the Irish home rule. In living-memory, Enoch Powell’s Rivers of Blood speech-incited skinheads to attack Commonwealth immigrants. The snobs’ enemy and the mob’s target have had different names but they are always the same group: Whig aristocrats,-Gladstonian liberals, champagne socialists who in their elite arrogance thought that Catholics should have equal rights and immigrants should be treated with respect.

It has worked before, but I don’t think the alliance will hold this time. Certainly, we once had a liberal elite. But by definition, a true elite is in power. Liberals aren’t in power, a British nationalist elite is, composed of-politicians so disreputable they don’t even believe in the patriotic pap they pump to their cozened followers.

I wish Amber Rudd luck in lecturing others on elitism, when this working-class heroine was not only the ‘aristocracy co-ordinator’ forFour Weddings and a-Funeral, and a director of offshore companies in the Bahamas tax haven, but was educated at Cheltenham Ladies’ College (although not well enough). In the name of the people, Rudd, like May and Hunt, is now playing with race politics and damning as elitist 16 million voters despite sharing their belief four months ago that we should stay in the EU.

The hypocrisy of the Tory elite will not destroy the alliance. Gullible mobs will always follow hypocritical snobs, but not if they fear they will lose their jobs. That fear is yet to spread to the right of politics, or I would say to the bulk of the population, but you can feel it coming.

All the government’s bombast flows from the relatively quiet economic summer we had after the Brexit vote. Like George W. Bush, when he declared ‘mission accomplished’ after the Americans rolled into Baghdad in 2003, cocksure Tories are full of-unwarranted self-confidence. It will shatter if the pound keeps heading for parity with the euro, and a nation with huge sovereign debts finds that the Treasury’s predictions of the tax take slumping are accurate. If jobs start going, if inflation and the national debt start rising, if the bond markets turn ugly, voters will demand that MPs intervene, and the sensible majority in Parliament will be only too pleased to oblige. May will then learn that, for all our faults, we are a parliamentary democracy, and that politicians who treat parliament like Charles I risk meeting the fate of Charles I.

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

 

Theresa May’s cynical Brexit stance has put her head on the block

Understand what this government is trying to get away with, and think about how it is trying to get away with it, and you will see it is reconstituting the oldest and dirtiest alliance in Tory-history: the alliance between snobs and mobs.

I accept it takes a while to see our new rulers for what they are. Theresa May represents the dormitory town of Maidenhead. Although Eton College is just a few miles down the Thames valley, she could not be further socially and intellectually from David Cameron’s public school chumocracy. As for inciting mobs, what more ridiculous charge could I level against her? May seems to have no need to incite anyone. The far left has destroyed the opposition so thoroughly it will take Labour a generation to recover. A Conservative party that officially wanted to keep us in the European Union, then lost the referendum and its prime minister and chancellor, is nevertheless so far ahead in the polls it would win a landslide if there were an election tomorrow.

For all her apparent dominance, May’s cynicism and folly is forcing her to turn-brutish. She is going for a hard Brexit, which the majority of the Commons does not support, whose consequences were not spelt out to the British people, and which May, her Home Secretary Amber Rudd and Chancellor Philip Hammond do not — if we take at face value their public pronouncements during the referendum campaign — believe in.

The referendum mandated the government to take Britain out of the EU. That was all. Voters did not say and were not asked whether we wanted to stay in the single-market or customs union. We did not say and were not asked whether EU citizens should be left in fear of being wrenched from their jobs and, in many cases, their new families. Nor did we say we wanted a hard Brexit at the 2015 election. On the contrary, the voters returned a Conservative government whose manifesto declared: ‘We say yes to the -single market.’

May doesn’t care. Like Charles I, she is trying to rule without Parliament. She is-graciously allowing MPs to ask questions about Brexit, but telling them they have no right to decide on the terms of our departure. All that matters is that she has decided, like an absolute monarch, that the referendum was all about immigration. The only way to stop free movement is to abandon the single market and in all probability the customs union too. The know-nothing Tory papers cheer her on with asinine adulation. David Davis, who began his career as a Hampden and is ending it as a Strafford, assures the impotent Commons they need not worry about the plans of their betters because there will be ‘no downside to Brexit at all’.

You only have to look at the plummeting pound, or listen to increasingly frantic business leaders, to suspect those words will haunt Davis to his grave. Somewhere in her mind, Theresa May must sense the coming job losses and fear the naive euphoria cannot last. So she summons the old Tory-alliance of snob and mob to keep a potentially hostile Commons in line.

At the Tory conference she contrasted her plain and honest self with those condescending elite politicians, who look down their well-bred noses at the public’s patriotism and concern about crime and immigration, and cannot understand why 17.4 million voted to leave the EU. Just to rub their dainty noses in the dirt, Amber Rudd proposes that businesses be forced to declare how many foreign workers they employ, like making harlots wear scarlet letters, and Jeremy Hunt warns foreign doctors needlessly cluttering up the NHS that their days in Britain are numbered.

If a few more Poles are beaten up because of their British nationalist postures, who cares? Only liberal elitists whine about the post-Brexit thugfest.

The snob-mob alliance is as old as the Tory party is. In 1780, patriotic Protestants incited the Gordon riots against the Whigs who favoured Catholic emancipation. From Randolph Churchill in 1886 through to F. E. Smith in 1914, Tory leaders incited Ulster Protestants to riot, and at the Curragh, the British army to mutiny to stop the Liberals giving the Irish home rule. In living-memory, Enoch Powell’s Rivers of Blood speech-incited skinheads to attack Commonwealth immigrants. The snobs’ enemy and the mob’s target have had different names but they are always the same group: Whig aristocrats,-Gladstonian liberals, champagne socialists who in their elite arrogance thought that Catholics should have equal rights and immigrants should be treated with respect.

It has worked before, but I don’t think the alliance will hold this time. Certainly, we once had a liberal elite. But by definition, a true elite is in power. Liberals aren’t in power, a British nationalist elite is, composed of-politicians so disreputable they don’t even believe in the patriotic pap they pump to their cozened followers.

I wish Amber Rudd luck in lecturing others on elitism, when this working-class heroine was not only the ‘aristocracy co-ordinator’ forFour Weddings and a-Funeral, and a director of offshore companies in the Bahamas tax haven, but was educated at Cheltenham Ladies’ College (although not well enough). In the name of the people, Rudd, like May and Hunt, is now playing with race politics and damning as elitist 16 million voters despite sharing their belief four months ago that we should stay in the EU.

The hypocrisy of the Tory elite will not destroy the alliance. Gullible mobs will always follow hypocritical snobs, but not if they fear they will lose their jobs. That fear is yet to spread to the right of politics, or I would say to the bulk of the population, but you can feel it coming.

All the government’s bombast flows from the relatively quiet economic summer we had after the Brexit vote. Like George W. Bush, when he declared ‘mission accomplished’ after the Americans rolled into Baghdad in 2003, cocksure Tories are full of-unwarranted self-confidence. It will shatter if the pound keeps heading for parity with the euro, and a nation with huge sovereign debts finds that the Treasury’s predictions of the tax take slumping are accurate. If jobs start going, if inflation and the national debt start rising, if the bond markets turn ugly, voters will demand that MPs intervene, and the sensible majority in Parliament will be only too pleased to oblige. May will then learn that, for all our faults, we are a parliamentary democracy, and that politicians who treat parliament like Charles I risk meeting the fate of Charles I.

 



Good luck getting that on the side of a bus

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

15 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

He has a degree in Economics ...

  Hide contents

... from the University of Life.

 

To be fair, he boils a good egg.

[dorlomin]

Click on image to see the full tweet

Edited October 13, 2016 by dorlomin

[WILLIEA]

See that the FT is reporting that against a basket of peer currencies the Pound has fallen to a 168 year low to levels not seen since the 1850;s

Even allowing for journalistic licence that is not at all good.

ETA Just heard a guy on the tv calling UK the poor man of Europe.

A phrase not heard since the 60's before we joined that nasty EU

Edited October 13, 2016 by WILLIEA

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, McSpreader said:

Yes there will be higher prices but we have a choice in a lot of what we buy and a lot of what we buy is unnecessary shite anyway.

And there it is. Falling living standards are a good thing now.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

 

On 12/10/2016 at 07:57, McSpreader said:

A lot of people in business are really happy the pound has  fallen as it was overpriced anyway.

 

2 hours ago, McSpreader said:

So you accept that some business people are happy with the lower value of the pound

 

2 hours ago, Jambomo said:

How did you manage to read that from what he has written? That's not what I read his post to mean at all.

He's gone from "A lot" to "Some" in the face of evidence

There's hope for him yet

 

[RedRob72]

 



Good luck getting that on the side of a bus

What a response! Bravo !! [emoji122][emoji23]

[topcat(The most tip top)]

11 hours ago, zidane's child said:

Is Brexit the single biggest f**k up that British politics has ever made?

That's an essay question

It rather depends on your views on 1914

Edited October 13, 2016 by topcat(The most tip top)

[eez-eh]

4 hours ago, McSpreader said:

So you accept that some business people are happy with the lower value of the pound and you agree that homeland tourism businesses will benefit.

You will also, in that case , probably agree that some people believe that a lower pound creates new opportunities for Britain to re-balance it's economy away from importing to manufacturing. Obviously that will take time but it is an opportunity. Maybe people can re-learn to support British producers.

Yes there will be higher prices but we have a choice in a lot of what we buy and a lot of what we buy is unnecessary shite anyway.

Get angry by all means, but that isn't my way. I prefer positivity, pity that annoys you but that's for you to deal with, not for me to deal with.

Btw, YOU , like most posters on here, are very good at taking a statement I make as an observation......for example that people voted Brexit because those people felt there was too much immigration, or that some business people are happy that the pound has fallen in value and then slam ME as though it is my OPINION when in fact those are my OBSERVATIONS......There is a difference...It's whether you have the intelligence to recognise that.

As with every decision in life the outcome is positive for some and negative for others. Unfortunately here there's an incredibly small percentage who benefit from this while the other 99% will be worse off. People aren't going to suddenly see "the pound has dropped" and flock here for a holiday. There may be a small increase in that but none of the benefits of this decision will come anywhere close to cancelling out the negatives.

We should have been looking to export more to redress the imbalance before Brexit happened. The Brexit vote hasn't just made people aware of that, anyone with an understanding of the issue was aware we needed to export more. The lower value of the pound may make our exports better value to other countries, however what you seem to be claiming is that thanks to Brexit manufacturing of such goods and services is going to do a roaring trade, yet given the economic situation we find ourselves in and the negative expectations of many businesses I'm not quite sure how you worked that one out.

Are you seriously dismissing these higher prices as "unnecessary shite"? That's laughable even given the standard of your argument so far. Many of the things that will see a rise in price are household essentials. Yet you seem to be dismissing a period of higher inflation while there is low to negative economic growth and very low growth in wages because "we have a choice of what to buy".

Your positivity on a Scottish football message board isn't going to have much of an impact on the economy, all you're doing is shying away from the reality of the situation. The majority of businesses and people now have a negative perception of both the current and future economy, and it is going to stay like that for as long as there is uncertainty and they know Brexit is going to severely damage our economy. That is a very hard cycle to get out of, you saw it in the financial crisis - people are negative, investment falls, consumer spending falls, both making the situation even worse and it repeats and repeats itself. There is no quick fix for that.

I don't think I'm the one lacking intelligence here, darling. Regardless of the nonsense you're spouting being your opinion or just "observations" they deserve to be laughed at and swatted aside as the nonsense they are.

[Billy Jean King]

Some good news for Mrs McSpreader !!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37630344

[NotThePars]

See that the FT is reporting that against a basket of peer currencies the Pound has fallen to a 168 year low to levels not seen since the 1850;s

Even allowing for journalistic licence that is not at all good.

ETA Just heard a guy on the tv calling UK the poor man of Europe.

A phrase not heard since the 60's before we joined that nasty EU

Well they did say they were taking us back to the glorious days of Empire. I didn't think they meant it literally but there you go.

[dorlomin]

Price of Marmite going up? Clearly all part of Project Dear. 

[Colkitto]

More worried about the pot noodles than the marmite to be honest

[topcat(The most tip top)]

4 hours ago, WILLIEA said:

See that the FT is reporting that against a basket of peer currencies the Pound has fallen to a 168 year low to levels not seen since the 1850;s

Even allowing for journalistic licence that is not at all good.

ETA Just heard a guy on the tv calling UK the poor man of Europe.

A phrase not heard since the 60's before we joined that nasty EU

Actually that's a bit misleading it's since 1848 and that's only because the Bank of England don't have any data older than that
 

https://www.ft.com/content/78478eee-e170-32d3-bdbb-b88a98f2f9bd