Fullerene Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 15 hours ago, zidane's child said: Is Brexit the single biggest f**k up that British politics has ever made? From Cameron wanting it in the first place to the contrast in campaigns from the Leave/Remain camps, plus the economic and political fall-out post Brexit. I can't think of another time so many events which have escalated so quickly in a 12 week period. I am not sure that Cameron actually wanted it. I think he wanted his party to stop talking about the EU endlessly. Not going to happen. Some Tories can be as dogmatic as anyone. Even if the EU was perfect, they would still be against it. Yet another layer of government - so they oppose it - end of story. Leave won partly because the Remain camp had too many lukewarm supporters. I guess it would be tricky to be a Tory MP who was dead keen on the EU. However, I totally agree that it is a mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 19 minutes ago, Fullerene said: Leave won partly because the Remain camp had too many lukewarm supporters. I guess it would be tricky to be a Tory MP who was dead keen on the EU. Leave won because clowns like Osbrone think the British people are morons who only respond to simplistic scare stories. They over hyped the short term risk and just sounded uncreadible to a large portion of people, they could not make the complex case for the positives of membership. There are enough voters who respond to simple fear messages to swing close FPTP elections but I do not think there are enough to swing national referendums. Talk to people like they are adults and their would likely have been greater engagement in the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 17 minutes ago, dorlomin said: Leave won because clowns like Osbrone think the British people are morons who only respond to simplistic scare stories. They over hyped the short term risk and just sounded uncreadible to a large portion of people, they could not make the complex case for the positives of membership. There are enough voters who respond to simple fear messages to swing close FPTP elections but I do not think there are enough to swing national referendums. Talk to people like they are adults and their would likely have been greater engagement in the issue. The leave camp won on fear. So British people are in fact morons who respond to simplistic scare stories. It doesn't just apply to Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonMan Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Cream Cheese said: The leave camp won on fear. So British people are in fact morons who respond to simplistic scare stories. It doesn't just apply to Scotland. The Remain camp never really managed to debunk Leave's fear stories, though, just offer their own, because that was what they'd done with the Scottish referendum and they assumed the same tactics would work again. They never properly managed to debunk Leave's arguments on immigration, partly because Cameron himself was afraid of seeming too positive on the issue since there's a bit of an anti-immigrant sentiment in his party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said: The leave camp won on fear. So British people are in fact morons "You are all morons and only disagree with me because of fear". Hmmmmm perhaps more of an answer than you think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 18 hours ago, McSpreader said: I will repeat.....try to read the whole post this time. Year ending March 2016 .....EU immigrants numbered 180,000.. Free movement/ open border Non EU.....190,000....... That's the one's we know about. A difference of 10,000.......you say 10,000 is far more....fine, no problem with that ....so what does that make the figure of 180,000 then? Fucking humungous! The fact that 190,000 comes from out of the EU proves we have an open borders policy. People want that changed. They were saying for years they wanted it changed. They weren't listened to. They voted Brexit............ Brexit may or may not provide all the answers these people want but it's part of why they voted Brexit....What part of that are you struggling with? Or is it just the arrogant part of you that is struggling with it because it isn't what little ol' you wanted.? You need to learn how to handle disappointment because you are fucking embarrassing yerself. Anyway, as I said game over, ........away and play with yerself like you normally do ! None of the above demonstrates that the UK has an "open border policy" - in fact it shows that the opposite is the case. Gutted for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, vikingTON said: Gutted for you. ^^^ Not really gutted for him IMO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, dorlomin said: Leave won because clowns like Osborne think the British people are morons who only respond to simplistic scare stories. They over hyped the short term risk and just sounded uncredible to a large portion of people, they could not make the complex case for the positives of membership. There are enough voters who respond to simple fear messages to swing close FPTP elections but I do not think there are enough to swing national referendums. Talk to people like they are adults and their would likely have been greater engagement in the issue. To me it seemed the referendum was mainly the Tories versus the Tories - with everybody else being ignored For Leave Tories - it was easy - their natural instinct was to oppose an institution such as the EU - regardless of whether it was good or bad For Remain Tories - it was more difficult - they could not be seen to be keen on the EU or positive about it - only saying it would be better to be in than out. I recall speeches by Cameron where he said he was half inclined to leave himself - and that seems true of many other Tory "Remainers". .. maybe they might have wanted to talk to people like adults but it was more important not to upset their own support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 hours ago, eez-eh said: As with every decision in life the outcome is positive for some and negative for others. Unfortunately here there's an incredibly small percentage who benefit from this while the other 99% will be worse off. People aren't going to suddenly see "the pound has dropped" and flock here for a holiday. There may be a small increase in that but none of the benefits of this decision will come anywhere close to cancelling out the negatives. We should have been looking to export more to redress the imbalance before Brexit happened. The Brexit vote hasn't just made people aware of that, anyone with an understanding of the issue was aware we needed to export more. The lower value of the pound may make our exports better value to other countries, however what you seem to be claiming is that thanks to Brexit manufacturing of such goods and services is going to do a roaring trade, yet given the economic situation we find ourselves in and the negative expectations of many businesses I'm not quite sure how you worked that one out. Are you seriously dismissing these higher prices as "unnecessary shite"? That's laughable even given the standard of your argument so far. Many of the things that will see a rise in price are household essentials. Yet you seem to be dismissing a period of higher inflation while there is low to negative economic growth and very low growth in wages because "we have a choice of what to buy". Your positivity on a Scottish football message board isn't going to have much of an impact on the economy, all you're doing is shying away from the reality of the situation. The majority of businesses and people now have a negative perception of both the current and future economy, and it is going to stay like that for as long as there is uncertainty and they know Brexit is going to severely damage our economy. That is a very hard cycle to get out of, you saw it in the financial crisis - people are negative, investment falls, consumer spending falls, both making the situation even worse and it repeats and repeats itself. There is no quick fix for that. I don't think I'm the one lacking intelligence here, darling. Regardless of the nonsense you're spouting being your opinion or just "observations" they deserve to be laughed at and swatted aside as the nonsense they are. Well said, and no abuse which makes you a rarity on this forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, vikingTON said: None of the above demonstrates that the UK has an "open border policy" - in fact it shows that the opposite is the case. Gutted for you. For goodness sakes.........get over yourself, it's too painful to witness! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, TonMan said: The Remain camp never really managed to debunk Leave's fear stories, though, just offer their own, because that was what they'd done with the Scottish referendum and they assumed the same tactics would work again. They never properly managed to debunk Leave's arguments on immigration, partly because Cameron himself was afraid of seeming too positive on the issue since there's a bit of an anti-immigrant sentiment in his party. The problem that politicians on the remain side had was that many of the problems that Leave held up as a reason for Brexit were actually down to Westminster policies They were unlikely to say "actually, it's our fault that we have a housing crisis, or the NHS is overstretched, or that there are very few job prospects in former heavy industry regions," so the leave side could blame everything on the EU without being countered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstarstranraer Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 On 12/10/2016 at 07:49, McSpreader said: You're either a lying p***k or being totally disingenuous. Or maybe you're simply a thick c*nt.....Or maybe all three! Thanks for playing, son. Hope you're a good loser, ha ha! 21 hours ago, McSpreader said: Anyway, as I said game over, ........away and play with yerself like you normally do ! 1 hour ago, McSpreader said: Well said, and no abuse which makes you a rarity on this forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 31 minutes ago, Redstarstranraer said: Like I said , a rarity....Self included. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, McSpreader said: For goodness sakes.........get over yourself, it's too painful to witness! ^^^ verge of tears 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 ^^^Must have the last word.....Painful..! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I've currently got the last word 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/its-hard-brexit-or-no-brexit-at-all-says-eu-council-presidentBut... But... But... What happened to "the UK will hold all the cards and determine the deal?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/its-hard-brexit-or-no-brexit-at-all-says-eu-council-presidentBut... But... But... What happened to "the UK will hold all the cards and determine the deal?" Ah Tusk is now to be believed, changed days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Ah Tusk is now to be believed, changed days. I don't believe what he says because he is the one saying it, and I am not sure that he is in a position to talk about the kind of Brexit we'll have until article 50 is triggered and we all start to negotiate. The idea that Boris has that we'll negotiate a better trade deal with the EU once we are out of it IS fantasy though, which must be clear to anyone with any sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jambomo said: I don't believe what he says because he is the one saying it, and I am not sure that he is in a position to talk about the kind of Brexit we'll have until article 50 is triggered and we all start to negotiate. The idea that Boris has that we'll negotiate a better trade deal with the EU once we are out of it IS fantasy though, which must be clear to anyone with any sense. It will be fine if we build a new royal yacht and mick from coatbridge buys a merc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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